Michael_BluFalco
Smash Journeyman
As promised, frame data on Pillaring:
Green = Their Shield is in stun
Red = Their Shield is not in stun
Early Pillar (dair asap out of shine):
1 Shine, Hitlag
2 Hitlag
3 Hitlag
4 Hitlag
5 Hitlag
6
7
8 Start Jump
9
10
11
12
13 Airborne (start Dair)
14
15
16
17 Dair Hits, Hitlag
18 Hitlag
19 Hitlag
20 Hitlag
21 Hitlag
22 Hitlag
23 Hitlag
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32 Fast Fall
33
34
35
36 Land, LC lag
37 LC lag
38 LC lag
39 LC lag
40 LC lag
41 LC lag
42 LC lag
43 LC lag
44 LC lag
45 Shine again
Ideal Pillar (Typical Pillar):
1 Shine, Hitlag
2 Hitlag
3 Hitlag
4 Hitlag
5 Hitlag
6
7
8 Start Jump
9
10
11
12
13 Airborne
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 Start Dair
22
23
24
25
26 Dair Hits, HitLag, Fast Fall
27 Hitlag
28 Hitlag
29 Hitlag
30 Hitlag
31 Hitlag
32 Hitlag
33
34
35
36 Land- LC lag
37 LC lag
38 LC lag
39 LC lag
40 LC lag
41 LC lag
42 LC lag
43 LC lag
44 LC lag
45 Shine again
Late Dair (Dair hits right before landing)
1 Shine, Hitlag
2 Hitlag
3 Hitlag
4 Hitlag
5 Hitlag
6
7
8 Start Jump
9
10
11
12
13 Airborne
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25 Start Dair
26 Fast Fall
27
28
29 Dair Hits, Hitlag
30 Hitlag
31 Hitlag
32 Hitlag
33 Hitlag
34 Hitlag
35 Hitlag
36 Land, LC lag
37 LC lag
38 LC lag
39 LC lag
40 LC lag
41 LC lag
42 LC lag
43 LC lag
44 LC lag
45 Shine Again
I hope this clarifies everything for everyone, but i have a feeling it's going to generate more questions than answers. This just goes to show, The pillar is not as safe as you think.
Edit: this is the kind of **** you should quote in the first post.
Multishining
1 Shine, Hitlag
2 Hitlag
3 Hitlag
4 Hitlag
5 Hitlag
6
7
8 Start Jump
9
10
11
12
13 Airborne, shine, Hitlag
14 Hitlag
15 Hitlag
16 Hitlag
17 Hitlag
18
19
20 Land, Start Jump for repeat
21
22
23
24
25 Airborne, Shine, Hitlag
Far more effective than pillaring, but still not escapable.
the technique blows. It's only good if the other person isn't thinking at all.
Really, the best a falco can do (besides continuously multishining) is mix it up between ideal pillars and early pillars.
any place there are 7 red frames in a row, you are shield grab-able. Meaning if you do a frame perfect Dair after your shine (not too hard to do), he can't grab you between the shine and the Dair. However, he could easily grab you after the dair, but before the next shine though. That's where the mix up comes in. If you think He's going to grab after the shine, do an early pillar. if you think he's going to grab after the dair, do an ideal pillar.
correct me if I'm wrong: A shine out of the shield should always be able to counter falco's pillar (if Fox or Falco does it)If done imediately after the shine. yes. There are other places it'll be guaranteed to work. Any place there is 6 red frames, falco can, any time there are 4 frames, fox can.
SCOTU's pillar data will not be forgotten. This is so helpful to foxes and falcos. My fox can usmash out of shield properly after learning this.
Original thread he posted this in. I recommend the original thread to everyone who really wants to see the discussion behind it. I decided to create a new thread because the thread below was a year old and I decided not to bump it, besides SCOTU retired.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=108512