• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

How to get better with Snake. [Updated August 16th]

-Ran

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
3,198
Location
Baton Rouge
This is more akin to a laundry list of items for me, but I'm sure others can gleam information from it. Every single mention of a technique is in reference to it being able to be done without fail and without thought.

1) Perfect shield more, and capitalize on the opportunities that they provide better. Perfect shields up close should at least yield a tilt or a down throw.
2) Improve tech chase reads. People should hold their breath for fear of getting stuck in a loop. People should be afraid of getting grabbed by Snake, just as they fear getting grabbed by the Ice Climbers or a chain grab character.
3) Improve F-Tilt range game. Boost grab, down tilt, grenade, spot dodge read to pivot grab, jab, mortar slide, dash attack, walk/shield, and so on. Be able to react to every F-Tilt 'bounce' to go into another full F-Tilt.
4) Better Grenade game. Too many grenades bounce away from the action or off of the stage. Grenades need to be a persistent threat on the stage. I should at least pull 30-50 grenades a game. I need to remember to check after every match.
5) Improve SDI. You need to SDI every attack, and predict every hit that you're getting attacked with to SDI to the fullest.
6) Tech everything.
7) Avoid spot dodging; it's typically a bad thing.
8) Stop air dodging out of fear. Only spot dodge to avoid a move during its start up.
9) Camp more. Stop giving up leads, or increasing the margin of your opponent's victory by playing at their tempo.
10) No more sloppy B-reversals, or any other tech for that matter.
12) Adapt faster.
13) Get Hungry.

Now, most of that was aimed for my own sake, but I'm sure that it can help most of you out in some form. Really, the key to getting better at any game is to remind yourself how bad you are at it. It's easy to look at where you currently are and view yourself as better than when you started, but does that matter if you aren't winning tournaments? Without a hunger instilled into your play, you aren't going to improve at the pace that you would if you had just started playing the game. I'm always reminded of an iconic scene from Rocky III when I think of the 'hunger' for winning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqjbwA8JDW4

Anytime you do anything for a length of time you're going to stagnant. You become comfortable at where you are in life, be at at the top of the food chain or in the middle where most of us find ourselves. It's only when you WANT it that you achieve something that you're able to become truly better. Really, it's a fact of life that everyone needs to realize that is applicable beyond simple gaming. Unless you want to be the best at Brawl in your area, state, region, or in the nation, you aren't going to achieve it. If you're OK with playing second fiddle to someone else, you aren't going to become better at an acceptable pace.

It's time to be realistic. Find the best person in your state, region, or otherwise and make it your goal to surpass them before the end of the summer. If that thought doesn't make your blood boil with the zeal of competition, then no amount of reading or writing about Brawl will make you better at the game. But, I would like to thank you for filling the pot. <3

April 26//

After playing with Lee Martin for four days, I've got a bit more to add to my list.

14) Stay confident throughout the match. Don't let doubt enter your mind.
15) Learn when to attack, and when to defend. Even if you have the advantage, you don't always have to attack, nor should you always camp.
16) Do not trade hits for the sake of mounting damage.
17) Play Safe. This doesn't mean camp. You must use the safest, least punishable options available. At the same time, you must be aware of how your opponent can attempt to punish these options, and then deal with them.
18) Learn how to get to my opponent's back consistently.
19) Stop running. If you're running at your opponent, you're doing it wrong. You're removing almost every option you have.
20) Never crawl to avoid a projectile. Always power shield, it's quicker.
21) Understand the vectors of attack my opponent can take, and utilize my DI/SDI to avoid the strongest attacks.
22) Avoid burning jumps unnecessarily when recovering.
**) Help one low-placing player at every tournament I go to for at least thirty minutes.

August 1st//

24) Find better options for dealing with moves. Don't limit yourself to Spot dodge/shield against a move. Beat out longer moves [such as most tilts] with your jab on reaction.
25) Stop losing the first game. Losing the first game means you're at a horrible disadvantage. Bring you A game as fast as possible.
26) Don't beat yourself. Ask yourself WHY you are Sd'ing or damaging yourself. Don't forget about it, correct it.
27) Do not attempt to be overly complicated. The less you think in a match, the easier you can read and react. The more moving parts a strategy has, the more likely it will fail.
28) Find out how to deal or avoid with Snake's weakness of landing on the ground after Cypher. Options are typically: Bair, B reversal grenade, air dodge, or do nothing.

August 16//

29) Relearn every match up every month. Forget everything, and rebuild your individual databases.
30) Understand that 90% of the time you 'know a match up', it's because you know the person. This is actually going to be covered a bit more, so read on.

Learn to adapt to the player, not the character. Don't spend the first match forgetting the habits of people you usually play with. I came to this conclusion while playing with Bigfoot and CG at Quakecon. Both of them are DK players, and Bigfoot is pretty amazing. The thing is, I thought I knew the Snake vs Dk match up more than anyone else in the world, because I've routinely played against Cyphus who is also an amazing DK player. While I was playing against CG in bracket, I was constantly making reads and choices based off what I knew from playing Cyphus, and I was paying for them. It took me two whole matches to 'purge' the experience I had from Cyphus before I was really running on all cylinders.

I hadn't really thought much about it, until I played Bigfoot after the tournament was over. Our matches were relatively even through out, but I was constantly making poor reads and judgment calls because of the knowledge I had accrued from playing with Cyphus. I brought this up with Bigfoot, and we determined that I'm making the mistake between match up experience and player experience. It's why I become a better player towards the end of a set, or further into several friendlies. I noticed this in hindsight with a lot of matches I had done previously in the day, such as a match with Kirbykid [when I've played Esca numerous times], Dmg [Jnig], and Infinity [Lee.]

So, take this as a warning, don't let your people match up experience knowledge cost you a match. The only way you can get better at this is by playing anyone and everyone that you see at a tournament. As a player, your individual tempo and move selection is greatly effected by both the players and the characters that they use. The more individuals you play, the better off you will always be.

-

Also, this thread has become kind of a Q/A to me, so feel free to ask me questions. I know I'm not some great Snake or anything, but I'll try to help everyone so that I can improve myself.
 

napZzz

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
5,294
Location
cg, MN
The best snake guide you'll find every made on these boards, regardless of size and who made it
 

Today

ლ(இДஇლ)
Joined
Sep 4, 2009
Messages
4,960
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio ; Land of Happiness and Kindness
NNID
Daylightful
Instilled or installed into my play? XP

Good job, Ran! Any guides are helpful so thanks for writing this one up! Have to say rule 13 is my favorite!
Overtime people will get the hang of this. I noticed a lot of the new Snakes don't really camp much at all and it really messes them up. Campy Snakes are the best kind. Also agree with the grenades!

Motivation is the key! If you don't have a person in your state to surpass think about making it big to MLG. You want to win, right? Or make it out of pools, right? Set a goal and work at it. MLG totally have motivate me to keep practicing whether it's WiFi or calling up friends. Practice on their stages and learn the rules! And if you get stump take a break, try something/someone else, then go back and you'll most definitely see improvement! Welcome back again and thanks! I'll add this to the directory as well!
 

Zajice

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
11,167
Location
Equestria
This is the most inspiring thing I've read all day.



So much inspiration up in here. First ESAM making me wanna scratch that old itch with my Pikachu, and now this.
 

DarkLouis331

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
1,502
Good read. I hit a wall with Snake once and realized that I needed to camp more, and improve cooking my 'nades. I've really improved since then, and I'm placing top 7 and top 9 at MI tournies and have now hit another wall. I hope to make it to at least top 5 next time. It makes things interesting I guess. :p
 

-Ran

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
3,198
Location
Baton Rouge
I'm glad that people are finding my laundry list helpful. After a recent training night, I'm wondering why I've never used air dodge to buffer mortar slides while trying to close into a foe. Should help me against Hyro.
 

-Ran

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
3,198
Location
Baton Rouge
SDI is more than simply reacting to an attack; you need to prepare for it. For example:

You're playing Meta Knight, you're Snake. After having your F-Tilt blocked, Meta Knight is in perfect range to either F-Tilt or short hop fair during your lag. Most people will go for the F-Tilt. Due to this, you should start to SDI the moment it becomes clear that you are going to get hit. This allows you to buffer your SDI so that the moment you are hit, you'll 'pop out' that much faster. Doing this method, I find that two quarter circles on the Smash Stick is enough to get out of most situations if I'm prepared, while taking into account the direction from the analog stick.

So once again, SDI is also a matter of prediction so that you can buffer your inputs quickly.
 

Yumewomiteru

Smash Master
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
3,367
Location
Allston, MA
NNID
yumewomiteru
quarter circle the c-stick? I thought that you have to reset it back to neutral before the input is counted?
 

-Ran

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
3,198
Location
Baton Rouge
quarter circle the c-stick? I thought that you have to reset it back to neutral before the input is counted?
Negative. You get one Frame of SDI per movement of the stick. Simply holding it in one direction will only yield one frame of SDI, hence why you need to quarter circle in the direction that you want to go.
 

Protoss_Zealot

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
13
i think the best way to get good at snake is to keep being aggressive. dont use grenades too much just a here and there kind of thing because the nades aren't really helpful unless you have a nikita missile way in the air to fall and have a nade to have him dodging atleast 2 things at once and if your good at keeping track of things you could have a c4 planted around him/her. but even that is risky business because your vulnerable at certain intervals. but for the most part you want to always stick close to your oponent (if its 1v1) because snake is very profficient at hand2hand as im sure most of you know. keeping on hitting and combining the foward a attack and just doing the 3 hit combo at snakes disposal and if the oponent gets too far away you could just do the roll ttack to engage again. and the up a attack is very useful if they charge or if your just getting a little close to him/her you can do it randomly incase oponent walks up close to you. this is how i play most of the time and anytime someone finds a counter to my strategy i always switch it up a little to keep them guessing and if they get my new strategy i switch again.
 

-Ran

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
3,198
Location
Baton Rouge
I understand your zeal for posting since you have just joined the boards; however the commentary that you have provided in your post are actually incorrect. I'll break it down for you in the nicest way possible.

i think the best way to get good at snake is to keep being aggressive.
This is incorrect. Every Brawl character is best played defensively, or at best passive aggressively. Even a rush down Meta Knight is being patient with their attacks at the highest level to bait a move that they can beat out with one of their own which at its heart is counter fighting.

dont use grenades too much just a here and there kind of thing because the nades aren't really helpful unless you have a nikita missile way in the air to fall and have a nade to have him dodging atleast 2 things at once and if your good at keeping track of things you could have a c4 planted around him/her. but even that is risky business because your vulnerable at certain intervals. but for the most part you want to always stick close to your oponent (if its 1v1) because snake is very profficient at hand2hand as im sure most of you know.
A grenade does 12% damage. You can throw out a grenade in less than a second, which then occupies a space on the map preventing your opponent from entering it unless they have a character who has a grab that they feel is adequate to pick up the item. At the highest level, many of Ally's kills vs M2k come with grenades due to their killing potential at the 120%. Grenades can also be used to create an extra layer of 'protection' by dropping a grenade while using throw to create an catch-22, and they can be pulled out during multihit moves to do damage to both of you.

Nikita overall is a poor choice. The only time you should be doing it is if when you are recovering incredibly high to add another projectile to fall in your path. Ie, you're canceling it immediately while doing your b-reversals. If you would be inclined to do a Nikita, it should only be done against an opponent with an incredibly lethargic recovery. Long range is a corner stone of Snake, but it must be done right. 'Right' in this case is grenades, c4 and landmines.


keeping on hitting and combining the foward a attack and just doing the 3 hit combo at snakes disposal and if the oponent gets too far away you could just do the roll ttack to engage again.
I'm going to assume that you mean Forward Tilt, which is a two hit move. At the very least, you do have this right, but you immediately sullied any bit of credibility by saying that a player should 'roll.' Unless you are Lucario, you shouldn't be rolling in Brawl. Snake has one of the worst rolls in the game and can get punished out of it without fail by most of the cast.

and the up a attack is very useful if they charge or if your just getting a little close to him/her you can do it randomly incase oponent walks up close to you.
If you're refering to the mortar attack, then this is bad advice, since the first hit of it can be DI'ed by your opponent to allow them to fall right into perfect forward air range of you. If you're referring to Up Tilt, that's a move that is best left as a killer due to it's KO potential.

this is how i play most of the time and anytime someone finds a counter to my strategy i always switch it up a little to keep them guessing and if they get my new strategy i switch again.
You have a lot of room for improvement then.
 

napZzz

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
5,294
Location
cg, MN
Campy Snake is the best kind of Snake. ;)
Not necessarily....a camping snake can get put into some weird positions sometimes, but overall I guess it is.....snake can rushdown vs. bad characters if he wants :p

Ran iji is so good.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
18,990
Except against some match ups like Link. Link is one of the match ups where the preferred way to play would be aggressive.
 

frayike

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
65
Location
Elk Grove/Sacramento, CA
I like Ran Iji's style. You can just taste his coldness. Although at first or maybe even now this seemed like a joke thread it really is good and logical advice. Only a few things on the list that I have to work on but still nonetheless it is a good self critique kind of thing. Most people would have went of on the guy spouting nonesense but you handle that well. Enough with the butt kissing haha what do you recommend for learning or might i add perfecting sdi. Forums, vids, etc. Only big thing that I'm missing and could help my gameplay immensly
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
18,990
-nappy said:
snake can rushdown vs. bad characters if he wants :p
I didn't see nappy post that. Accidental redundant post

So, what do you think does Snake generally do in certain percents. Like 0-15% or something like that.

In my opinion it's generally camping the enemy until he/she is around 80-100% or above. Unless there are certain characters who can't be camped.

Question ran:
When is the proper percent to get the kill?
 

-Ran

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
3,198
Location
Baton Rouge
As a player, I'm not regional level, and I'm just scrapping by trying to get to the top of my own state's small Brawl community. I do however feel that I'm adequate in passing on the knowledge that I have accumulated, but I don't consider myself a pro. So with that said, I'll answer the questions.

what do you recommend for learning or might i add perfecting sdi. Forums, vids, etc. Only big thing that I'm missing and could help my gameplay immensly
Believe it or not, the best character in the game to practice against to gain proficient SDI use is Meta Knight. Due to a three hit F-Tilt, three hit bair/fair, and his tornado you have the trappings of a perfect situation to learn how to SDI properly. I find that the main issue with Snake when it comes to SDI is the potential to buffer an aerial that you don't want to do which can sometimes set up your opponent to do another move. Against MK, you should learn to SDI his F-Tilt at the very least, to take away his move refreshment.

I find that the basics of SDI can be learned from attempting to SDI Pikachu's down Smash as well as Rob's. That's where I started when the game first came out. Really, Smash DI is just doing quarter circles in the direction that you want to go on the Smash Stick for an additional frame of direction per movement coupled with the use of your analogue in a direction you want to go. At the lowest level, it's a matter of simply trying to get away from your opponent, but as your SDI improvements, you learn how to manipulate the trajectory that you're sent to limit your opponent's viable options for a chase. Think for a moment, if you SDI behind Marth, he can no longer fair you, and is left with the back side of his Uair or his Bair to attack you, which are both significantly slower and have smaller areas of effect.


So, what do you think does Snake generally do in certain percents. Like 0-15% or something like that.
I believe that the smartest move a Snake can make at the start of a match is jump + C4 + pull grenade out while adjusting the movement of his opponent. This gives you two options of control at the start of the match. This is much like how a Toon Link will Arrow + Pull a bomb out at the start of every match. I attempt to apply pressure early on to get a lead, so that my opponent is hesitant to approach me whenever I do decide to camp. During the early part of a match, Snake is at his worst since he is juggled or chain thrown by most of the cast. The best thing that can be done is to make your opponent predictable by applying enough damage with F-Tilts to where they begin to fear approaching you on the ground, which then sets up easier shield grabs.


When is the proper percent to get the kill?
You should never 'try' to get a kill. The moment you shift into actively trying to get a kill, is the moment that you sacrifice the strategy that allowed you to get the damage done on your opponent. All of Snake's damage dealing moves are capable of killing if you keep them reliably fresh, and so there is no need to switch to a different move usage. I find that people that spam Up Tilt in hops of killing at 110% tend to eat damage due to how predictable it is. If they instead would utilize a few grenades, a jab, or even a throw, they would open their options to down-tilt, f-tilt, bair, nair, uair, grenades, and so on.

On that note, people need to realize that a grab at moderate percents should yield a few pummels to refresh your moves which allow for easier kills, and the freedom to use your anti-air Up Tilt at early to mid percents.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
18,990
Thanks for the advice Ran.

This post was suppose to be another question but I realized that your answer covers it up.
 

frayike

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
65
Location
Elk Grove/Sacramento, CA
Thanks for the advice Ran I need to just try this out during friendlies I guess. Nice advice on killing. I find myself doing just what you said but then I hardly utilize the U-tilt because I am always saving it for the kill. It is just a matter of playing smart I guess.
 

Protoss_Zealot

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
13
man why does this ran iji person like to knock all my strats down. i gave great advice. but i guess you have to really see me in action before you canr eall disagree
 

-Ran

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
3,198
Location
Baton Rouge
man why does this ran iji person like to knock all my strats down. i gave great advice. but i guess you have to really see me in action before you canr eall disagree
Question:
Are you Power Ranked in your state?
Have you gone to tournaments with the good people in your state?
Are you seeded into tournament brackets when you go out of state?

If you answer no to the above, then my analytical breakdown of Snake's play-style will drastically help you game.
 

Protoss_Zealot

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
13
Question:
Are you Power Ranked in your state?
Have you gone to tournaments with the good people in your state?
Are you seeded into tournament brackets when you go out of state?

If you answer no to the above, then my analytical breakdown of Snake's play-style will drastically help you game.
i dont need to go to tournaments....although i really wish they did have tournies in my big town. im a pretty good player. one of my old friends knows all the techniques and tricks hes learned from internet and despite all the things hes learned from internet and everyone else. he still cant beat me. especially when im snake. even his best char ike cant beat me and hes played the game about 2x longer then i have and hes had more oponents. im just good at this game hands down. and if we played i'd make you look like a little girl so HA. but please dont ask me to play onlone vs you because i cant stand the lag system online when nintendo made it they weren't thinkin about the online play. even so i prefer to play with the person right there. no lag at all and it takes all skill. my point is im a great brawl player and anyone who plays me will have achallenge for sure. i dont need any kind of recognition to know im good.
 

-Ran

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
3,198
Location
Baton Rouge
Cute, that's all I can think of to say. Enjoy playing casually, but don't pollute my thread with your nonsense.
 

Turazrok

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
4,133
Location
LA
This reminds me of that troll snake combo vid. Look bud, I can guarentee you Ran is better than you... an attitude like yours is one that won't make many friends in the smash scene..
 

Hydruz

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Messages
61
because making friends in the smash scene is such a big deal right?
 

Protoss_Zealot

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
13
This reminds me of that troll snake combo vid. Look bud, I can guarentee you Ran is better than you... an attitude like yours is one that won't make many friends in the smash scene..
and i can gaurantee you that your a big butt-kisser because this has nothing to do with you kid. dont but into other peoples business when its none of your concern. you should listen to your mommy more
 
Top Bottom