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Snake vs. Falco

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Lazy
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
3,433
Location
Morrison, Colorado
Discuss the Falco matchup in here. Discussion is open indefinitely. Don't be afraid to post.

:snake::falco:

Bulletpoints:
  • You want a campy matchup? Here's one for you. You'll be forced to get chunks of damage off of your C4s and grenades, while your opponent will thrive off of his lasers. Crouch to avoid said lasers.
  • The most important thing is to BE PATIENT. Falco's pool of options is limited, so if you slow the pace of the match down, you'll find it extremely easy to predict and punish.
  • Use grenades as your main defensive measure. They get you out of Falco's chaingrab, blow up in his face if he happens to fire a laser, and will stop phantasm approaches in their tracks. You WILL get outcamped, however. Too many grenades will hurt more than help.
  • Use your weight to your advantage. You're freakin' heavy as Snake, so most aerial kill attempts will be null with some decent DI. This being said, getting spiked out of cypher is common, as are random fsmash kills. Be wary, and you should be breaking 180% every time, or more if Falco's bad with stale moves.
  • At high percents, wait around and wait for an opportunity to open. Good Falcos live off of greed, so you're just opening yourself up to fsmash and bair kills if you get too ancy.
  • You want to be banning flat stages, FD or Smashville specifically. They allow for easy camping with Falco's perfectly horizontal lasers. Some people like FD, however, so see what works for you.
  • Counterpick something with bad ledges and/or an uneven main floor. Lylat is an excellent choice, as is Delfino if you can avoid the chaingrab there.
  • The matchup is deemed to be around 50:50, unless proven otherwise.
Notable Posts:
Falco is one of Snake's harder but still can be handled MUs.

Snake's pros:
- Can crouch lasers
- Can punish Falco's phantasm
- Can kill Falco at low percents
- High priority

Falco's pros:
- Outcamps Snake
- His aerials beat Snake's
- Can CG Snake
- Can blow up Snake's nades with lasers

Falco's camping is the main problem in the MU. It will halt us from pulling out a nade and it stops us from camping. His lasers blow up his nades and to make it worst, one mistake will cause you to be opened for a CG to around 50%. This doesn't make us hopeless. It may sound like it but you can deal with it. How? First of all, you can crouch Falco's lasers. Some Falcos say that Snake's crouchign lasers thing can be punished by phantasm. Punish phantasm and outprioritize it. Phantasm can be outprioritized by any attack of Snake.

There are 2 things that can rack you up to 50%. His lasers or CGs or his jabs and tilts and aerials. At best, avoid everything that can rack up damage. If your having trouble pulling out a nade then here is how. Pull out a nade at the right time then PS any laser then insta-throw or throw it but insta throw is better since it's faster. But remember, good Falcos can blow nades up with god accuracy so you have to be careful on your aiming. The best way to throw a grenade is STRONG THROWING IT. It will travel under lasers and keep low chances of it getting blown up. If he catches it, strip the grenade!

About his CG, don't get grabbed or the other term, don't get grabbed unless the following racks you up to 50%:

- Jabs, aerials and tilts
- Lasers

Kinda stupid though but in my experience, whenever I evade lasers or CGs or jabs and stuff, I get damaged to 50%. After wards, you don't have to worry about getting CG'ed. I'm still careful about getting combo'd through grabs.

Other small things but still important, his aerials beat yours. Avoid getting brought up to air and stick grounded. You can kill him at low %

Overall MU:
50:50 (Not 45:55 Falco or Snake or 49:51 Falco or Snake)
Unfun matchup to me. Depending on how gay the Falco plays will depend on how hard the matchup is. I think Snake wins this because of how insanely hard it is for Falco to kill Snake. Unless spiked, Snake shouldn't be dying before 180% every single stock.

Pros:
Snake never dies
Nades can save you from CG
Can duck under lasers
Nades stop Side B Spam

Cons:
Falco can out camp Snake
CG can be a 0 to death
Falco can punish Snake's recovery quite well

Generally, the beginning of the match will consist of Falco laser spamming and Snake nade spamming. But wait, you need to realize that laser spamming stops your nade camping game greatly. If you pull out a nade when hit with laser, it goes nowhere and can blow up on you. Futhermore, Flaco can just reflect the nades back at you for major damage and knockback. You can get around this by well timed nades combined with ducking then throwing. Falco can't reflect a nade if it blows up right when it's on him. If the Falco is very campy, just duck the entire time until he approaches, if even. No reason to approach if you don't have to, right?

The biggest issue at the beginning of the match, and at every beginning of a stock is being at 0%. This means if you get grabbed, you will take at least 40% damage, and that's being generous. Falco's CG ***** Snake. You can attempt to buffer mash nades to get out of it, but you most likely will not succeed. The worst part of the CG is if you're grabbed near the edge, it's a guaranteed spike for Falco. What most playesr do not know is that you can actually QCDI the spike to land on the stage (or tech the wall if you still miss). It's hard to explain how to do quarter circle DI, but basically if you're being CGed off the right side of the stage, right before the spike mash up/left repeatedly very fast, slightly moving back and forth between up/left. It takes some practice, but it's a great alternative to being spiked off stage and having to C4 yourself back on and/or get spiked again and lose the stock. The other remedy to the CG off stage is to just blow yourself up at the beginning of every stock to about 30%. I do not find this productive at all. There is no need to disadvantage yourself every stock like that. Especially if you lose the first stock, it means you're even farther behind.

Let's say you are CGed off stage and spiked. Falcos will usually try to double spike you. It takes practice, but you can avoid this. You can C4 yourself if you know you're going to be spiked too. But basically you want to recover high and fast. I find up Bing slightly away from the stage helps avoid a second spike. If you can't avoid a second spike, just C4. The worst case scenario if you react wrong is you get spiked immediately after the first spike and just die.

Moving on, we have dealing with yet another major problem. Falcos Side B. Falcos Side B can be stopped by Nades. It will blow Falco up when he hits them most of the time, depending on which parts of the Side B are hit. So I would strongly suggest keeping nades behind or in front of you at all times to prevent Side B spam from hitting you. If you predict it really well, you can punish if you're spaced well enough.

Next, edge guarding. Falco has 4 general options to recover. Side B onto ledge, Up B onto ledge, Side B onto stage, Up B onto stage. You're going to want to use mind games with proper prediction to punish or gimp Falco. If you're standing right near the ledge, chances are, the Falco won't risk going for the ledge. That's not to say it's a sure thing, but if you bait it to be on stage, you can punish that. Be careful if you do grab the ledge. Side B can spike you from it. If the Falco tries to Up B the ledge, drop a Bair to knock him farther. Basically, every time you knock Falco off stage far enough so that he uses his double jump, you have a 25% chance of punishing him unless I'm missing some options. Do note that jabbing in place CAN sometimes stop Side B. Another trick is to put a mine on the stage then grab the ledge. Easy almost guaranteed punish?

Being edge guarded by Falco is actually quite tricky and annoying. Due to Falcos high double jump, he has no problem chasing you up with a Bair/spike/Uair. If you predictably land the same way every time, expect the Falco to try charging Fsmashes on you while landing. Don't underestimate how well this can kill you. Basically, recover high and fast every time and be prepared for the Flaco to jump up really fast for most likely a Bair/Uair KO. They will try to read air dodges too, so don't spam air dodge. It's tough, but other than gimping, this is Falcos second best way of KOing you. Take that away, and you're even harder to kill.

Up close fighting with Falco is kind of tough. Falco's Jab comes out extremely fast and can make his roll/sidestep to jab near unpunishable. You can try to trade jabs with it though, but it's usually better to just back off. Most of everything else Flaco does on the ground is punishable. Fsmash, Dsmash, Usmash, utilt, ftilt, dtilt, reflector, laser, all punishable on ground fairly easily. Just be careful if you're at low %, as the Falco will most definitely try to grab you. Spamming sidestep to avoid grabs won't work on smart players, so backing off is the best choice at low %.

Summary:

Learn to deal with the CG
Learn how to avoid laser spam/side b spam
Recover smart, as you should in any matchup
Edge guard Falco as much as possible.
Don't have C4 on stage when at low %'s.

Overall, I would say it's 55:45 Snake. Falco has the ability to beat up Snake pretty badly, but Falco has an ungodly time KOing Snake as most of his kill moves are either too slow or easily predictable. It's one of those matchups that are very hard until you learn it, then it's not so bad, just kind of unfun.

I'll try to upload a match on this soon.
basically because falco outcamps snake, has grab setups, and can keep snake off the ledge quite well if given the chance. admittedly, recovering on fd with falco is a bit of an issue (i play the mu from both sides), but i feel falco's camping ability on fd makes up for it. not to mention the phantasm...

if you wanna own a falco, take him somewhere uneven. seriously. you'll notice a fairly massive difference. shdl become much less effective, and he has to jump higher to cancel his sideB effectively. put him on lylat or yi and lol forever.
I don't think it's as bad as you make it out to be on FD. Side B spam is stopped by dropping nades at all times. You can contend with Falco's camping quite well, and recovering isn't too bad if you're good at mixing up landings and not eating Bairs/Uairs during Cypher. Granted, I don't believe FD is a genious CP vs Falco, but the space does you well when you need to back off. I don't believe FD is in Falcos favor. I used to ban it vs Faclo because I was scared of the camping/side B, but it's not bad when you know how to get around it. Now I CP Falcos to it because FD is ALWAYS an amazing Snake stage.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
18,990
Falco is one of Snake's harder but still can be handled MUs.

Snake's pros:
- Can crouch lasers
- Can punish Falco's phantasm
- Can kill Falco at low percents
- High priority

Falco's pros:
- Outcamps Snake
- His aerials beat Snake's
- Can CG Snake
- Can blow up Snake's nades with lasers

Falco's camping is the main problem in the MU. It will halt us from pulling out a nade and it stops us from camping. His lasers blow up his nades and to make it worst, one mistake will cause you to be opened for a CG to around 50%. This doesn't make us hopeless. It may sound like it but you can deal with it. How? First of all, you can crouch Falco's lasers. Some Falcos say that Snake's crouchign lasers thing can be punished by phantasm. Punish phantasm and outprioritize it. Phantasm can be outprioritized by any attack of Snake.

There are 2 things that can rack you up to 50%. His lasers or CGs or his jabs and tilts and aerials. At best, avoid everything that can rack up damage. If your having trouble pulling out a nade then here is how. Pull out a nade at the right time then PS any laser then insta-throw or throw it but insta throw is better since it's faster. But remember, good Falcos can blow nades up with god accuracy so you have to be careful on your aiming. The best way to throw a grenade is STRONG THROWING IT. It will travel under lasers and keep low chances of it getting blown up. If he catches it, strip the grenade!

About his CG, don't get grabbed or the other term, don't get grabbed unless the following racks you up to 50%:

- Jabs, aerials and tilts
- Lasers

Kinda stupid though but in my experience, whenever I evade lasers or CGs or jabs and stuff, I get damaged to 50%. After wards, you don't have to worry about getting CG'ed. I'm still careful about getting combo'd through grabs.

Other small things but still important, his aerials beat yours. Avoid getting brought up to air and stick grounded. You can kill him at low %

Overall MU:
50:50 (Not 45:55 Falco or Snake or 49:51 Falco or Snake)
 

Bizkit047

Smash Lord
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
1,632
Unfun matchup to me. Depending on how gay the Falco plays will depend on how hard the matchup is. I think Snake wins this because of how insanely hard it is for Falco to kill Snake. Unless spiked, Snake shouldn't be dying before 180% every single stock.

Pros:
Snake never dies
Nades can save you from CG
Can duck under lasers
Nades stop Side B Spam

Cons:
Falco can out camp Snake
CG can be a 0 to death
Falco can punish Snake's recovery quite well

Generally, the beginning of the match will consist of Falco laser spamming and Snake nade spamming. But wait, you need to realize that laser spamming stops your nade camping game greatly. If you pull out a nade when hit with laser, it goes nowhere and can blow up on you. Futhermore, Flaco can just reflect the nades back at you for major damage and knockback. You can get around this by well timed nades combined with ducking then throwing. Falco can't reflect a nade if it blows up right when it's on him. If the Falco is very campy, just duck the entire time until he approaches, if even. No reason to approach if you don't have to, right?

The biggest issue at the beginning of the match, and at every beginning of a stock is being at 0%. This means if you get grabbed, you will take at least 40% damage, and that's being generous. Falco's CG ***** Snake. You can attempt to buffer mash nades to get out of it, but you most likely will not succeed. The worst part of the CG is if you're grabbed near the edge, it's a guaranteed spike for Falco. What most playesr do not know is that you can actually QCDI the spike to land on the stage (or tech the wall if you still miss). It's hard to explain how to do quarter circle DI, but basically if you're being CGed off the right side of the stage, right before the spike mash up/left repeatedly very fast, slightly moving back and forth between up/left. It takes some practice, but it's a great alternative to being spiked off stage and having to C4 yourself back on and/or get spiked again and lose the stock. The other remedy to the CG off stage is to just blow yourself up at the beginning of every stock to about 30%. I do not find this productive at all. There is no need to disadvantage yourself every stock like that. Especially if you lose the first stock, it means you're even farther behind.

Let's say you are CGed off stage and spiked. Falcos will usually try to double spike you. It takes practice, but you can avoid this. You can C4 yourself if you know you're going to be spiked too. But basically you want to recover high and fast. I find up Bing slightly away from the stage helps avoid a second spike. If you can't avoid a second spike, just C4. The worst case scenario if you react wrong is you get spiked immediately after the first spike and just die.

Moving on, we have dealing with yet another major problem. Falcos Side B. Falcos Side B can be stopped by Nades. It will blow Falco up when he hits them most of the time, depending on which parts of the Side B are hit. So I would strongly suggest keeping nades behind or in front of you at all times to prevent Side B spam from hitting you. If you predict it really well, you can punish if you're spaced well enough.

Next, edge guarding. Falco has 4 general options to recover. Side B onto ledge, Up B onto ledge, Side B onto stage, Up B onto stage. You're going to want to use mind games with proper prediction to punish or gimp Falco. If you're standing right near the ledge, chances are, the Falco won't risk going for the ledge. That's not to say it's a sure thing, but if you bait it to be on stage, you can punish that. Be careful if you do grab the ledge. Side B can spike you from it. If the Falco tries to Up B the ledge, drop a Bair to knock him farther. Basically, every time you knock Falco off stage far enough so that he uses his double jump, you have a 25% chance of punishing him unless I'm missing some options. Do note that jabbing in place CAN sometimes stop Side B. Another trick is to put a mine on the stage then grab the ledge. Easy almost guaranteed punish?

Being edge guarded by Falco is actually quite tricky and annoying. Due to Falcos high double jump, he has no problem chasing you up with a Bair/spike/Uair. If you predictably land the same way every time, expect the Falco to try charging Fsmashes on you while landing. Don't underestimate how well this can kill you. Basically, recover high and fast every time and be prepared for the Flaco to jump up really fast for most likely a Bair/Uair KO. They will try to read air dodges too, so don't spam air dodge. It's tough, but other than gimping, this is Falcos second best way of KOing you. Take that away, and you're even harder to kill.

Up close fighting with Falco is kind of tough. Falco's Jab comes out extremely fast and can make his roll/sidestep to jab near unpunishable. You can try to trade jabs with it though, but it's usually better to just back off. Most of everything else Flaco does on the ground is punishable. Fsmash, Dsmash, Usmash, utilt, ftilt, dtilt, reflector, laser, all punishable on ground fairly easily. Just be careful if you're at low %, as the Falco will most definitely try to grab you. Spamming sidestep to avoid grabs won't work on smart players, so backing off is the best choice at low %.

Summary:

Learn to deal with the CG
Learn how to avoid laser spam/side b spam
Recover smart, as you should in any matchup
Edge guard Falco as much as possible.
Don't have C4 on stage when at low %'s.

Overall, I would say it's 55:45 Snake. Falco has the ability to beat up Snake pretty badly, but Falco has an ungodly time KOing Snake as most of his kill moves are either too slow or easily predictable. It's one of those matchups that are very hard until you learn it, then it's not so bad, just kind of unfun.

I'll try to upload a match on this soon.
 

Kunx990

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
153
Location
Miami
I've dealt with the CG by mashing B and waiting for a nade to drop.

Punish recoveries by well planned and placed explosions.

Overall I'll say 50:50 Snake's favor as CG and Snake not dying even things out.
 
Joined
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Messages
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50:50 Snake's favor? 50:50 means even. No one's favor.

And CG can't be deal with unless it's frame-perfect.

Unless you're talking about 51:49 Snake or 55:45 Snake
 
Joined
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Messages
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Anytime you do not have a nade out when near Falco, you are doing it wrong and risk being grabbed. Be wary of platform camping platforms to avoid the CG at first, it could actually mess you up just as much as getting grabbed. Falco can fire two lasers at the height of the SH to hit you on any platform in the game just about. This greatly messes with platform camping.

Dealing with a recovering Falco. Falco's all have some kind of repeatable pattern to how they recover. Take note of what they do and apply it. Most often than not it involves SideB usage from the ledge. Typically, even a simple nade near the max range of phantasm is enough to deter or catch falco recoverying into the stage with SideB. This is a quick fix to when you do not have the time to set-up a mine. If you are playing someone who knows falco well, never forget he can phantasm to platforms to fall through it, or land on them. This adds to his unpredicability. Be sure to be ready to cover those options if he goes for it.
 

jpak

Smash Lord
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Messages
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When caught in Falco's jab is it best to try to DI away, or pull out a nade?
 
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When caught in Falco's jab is it best to try to DI away, or pull out a nade?
Depends upon what falco does. If he is stupid enough to keep the attack going, DI up and over him and catch him with Bair. If not, it is typically unpunishable and it's better to DI out right way.
 

Bizkit047

Smash Lord
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
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I've dealt with the CG by mashing B and waiting for a nade to drop.
Only works if the Falco is not CGing fast enough, aka will probably work on wifi. But then again, what doesn't work on wifi.

Anyway, yea I DI away from the jab now. Falcos don't fall for the DIing up/behind to Bair thing anymore it just gets you grabbed now. You can always try DIing a little bit backwards then doing a jab, but do at own risk of getting punished.
 
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imo, stay grounded and avoid going on platforms cause you might get hit by lasers.

And I agree with DI'ing jab
 

Attila_

The artist formerly known as 'shmot'
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why would falco continue to jab? if anything, he will jab --> grab (or similar), or jab cancel after the first two hits, then do it again (which you cant sdi through).

i think its 55:45 falco on fd, bf and sv, but snakes adv everywhere else (cept japes, but that seems to be banned pretty much everywhere). ill put up my synopsis soon.
 

Attila_

The artist formerly known as 'shmot'
BRoomer
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Messages
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basically because falco outcamps snake, has grab setups, and can keep snake off the ledge quite well if given the chance. admittedly, recovering on fd with falco is a bit of an issue (i play the mu from both sides), but i feel falco's camping ability on fd makes up for it. not to mention the phantasm...

if you wanna own a falco, take him somewhere uneven. seriously. you'll notice a fairly massive difference. shdl become much less effective, and he has to jump higher to cancel his sideB effectively. put him on lylat or yi and lol forever.
 

Underload

Lazy
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Messages
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A stage isn't good / bad for a character just because of ONE thing (unless it's a gamebreaking thing, like D3 infinites / walkoffs). For example, Snake kicks *** on Japes because he lives FOREVER, and you can actually create more advantages than disadvantages if you just adjust your playstyle. It's one of the biggest trap counterpicks because of that. :p Anyway, yeah, I would rather play a Falco on RC than on Smashville or FD, that's fact.
 

Bizkit047

Smash Lord
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
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basically because falco outcamps snake, has grab setups, and can keep snake off the ledge quite well if given the chance. admittedly, recovering on fd with falco is a bit of an issue (i play the mu from both sides), but i feel falco's camping ability on fd makes up for it. not to mention the phantasm...

if you wanna own a falco, take him somewhere uneven. seriously. you'll notice a fairly massive difference. shdl become much less effective, and he has to jump higher to cancel his sideB effectively. put him on lylat or yi and lol forever.
I don't think it's as bad as you make it out to be on FD. Side B spam is stopped by dropping nades at all times. You can contend with Falco's camping quite well, and recovering isn't too bad if you're good at mixing up landings and not eating Bairs/Uairs during Cypher. Granted, I don't believe FD is a genious CP vs Falco, but the space does you well when you need to back off. I don't believe FD is in Falcos favor. I used to ban it vs Faclo because I was scared of the camping/side B, but it's not bad when you know how to get around it. Now I CP Falcos to it because FD is ALWAYS an amazing Snake stage.
 
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I'm just not good there against Falco.

Cause of his aerials and generally his d-air. Any tip?
 

Underload

Lazy
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You just need to figure out his limited pool of tricks, and have a reaction for every single one of them. Like Bizkit said, always have a nade so you can powershield phantasm, learn when to edgehog and when to stay back, and learn in what way you should be shielding jabs and aerials. Things like that. It's not an easy thing to get down, but it definitely helps if you do. As SuSa and I formulated on AIM a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, "**** this game is really rock-paper-scissors-y".
 
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I get it now.

How about FD? I know it's a bad stage against Falco but I personally think it's OKAY against him.
 

Attila_

The artist formerly known as 'shmot'
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I don't think it's as bad as you make it out to be on FD. Side B spam is stopped by dropping nades at all times. You can contend with Falco's camping quite well, and recovering isn't too bad if you're good at mixing up landings and not eating Bairs/Uairs during Cypher. Granted, I don't believe FD is a genious CP vs Falco, but the space does you well when you need to back off. I don't believe FD is in Falcos favor. I used to ban it vs Faclo because I was scared of the camping/side B, but it's not bad when you know how to get around it. Now I CP Falcos to it because FD is ALWAYS an amazing Snake stage.
i dunno, i suppose i just dont like fd in general... id rather take most characters on bf or sv (although probably not falco, though). i think fd does make it harder to camp than bf or sv though, since you can really jump over lasers and throw nades without the platforms.
 

etecoon

Smash Hero
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May 31, 2009
Messages
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woah nice hax

was the other game(s) recorded? want to add to video thread
 

Panix

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Snake beats falco because of weight, plain and simple.
O yeah, and gernades.
and strong tilts.
and grabs...
oh, nvm. Mainly the weight, falco's only move that should kill you at low percents would be a f smash that you fell into.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Grenades are hard to pull out against Falco.

There are possible ways on how to pull out grenades such as PS then use grenade. It's still hard though but once your grenades start going, it will be quite hard for Falco. Not unless he blows it up with lasers, always STRONG THROW or A button-throw it. (Forgot the term)
 

smashkng

Smash Lord
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Snake beats falco because of weight, plain and simple.
O yeah, and gernades.
and strong tilts.
and grabs...
oh, nvm. Mainly the weight, falco's only move that should kill you at low percents would be a f smash that you fell into.
If you DI, Falco's fsmash is pretty weak if you DI up. Falco's only way to kill Snake early is getting a chance to Dair Snake offstage. And when he chain spikes you can chose to take lots of damage but make it back or try to avoid taking lots of damage but risk of getting killed by it.
 

Reyney

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 13, 2009
Messages
126
Location
Germany
grenades on the ground
utilt
dtilt
bair
nair
jab sometimes

i like to roll in the phantasms direction to punish with ftilt, too
 

napZzz

Smash Hero
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how do you punish phantasm?
a well timed utilt beats phantasm. Its tricky to pull off at times, but you need to try and recognize where and when the falco you're fighting likes to phantasm and what he does before it, sort of like triggers. It should help you be able to predict it and utilt, and hopefully make them be more cautious about it to deal with other things easier
 
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If you notice players who play DEHF/SK92 falcos, etc. M2K, Gluttony, and others shield/spotdodge the phantasm once they see the start up lag. Replace moves of trying to hit falco out of it with those, then try to punish the landing lag.
 

Calzorz

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Feb 6, 2009
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iv done a write up for this in the backroom , dono if i can paste what i wrote so i wont do it right now but i think me vs kasper if 1 of the best examples for this matchup
 

napZzz

Smash Hero
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I kind of disagree calz, no offense but that falco made alot of really stupid plays throughout the matches and I think something like ally vs. rain would be a better example (even though rain sd's first round lol)

try to get your write up
 

Calzorz

Smash Lord
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hmm im not just talking about that 1 set/sets from that tourny even previous tournys , where he makes less mistakes
 

Attila_

The artist formerly known as 'shmot'
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
6,025
Location
Melbourne, Australia
i think rain vs ally is a horrible example; rain got read like a book and punished by someone who was playing on a completely different level.

also, dtilt can punish phantasm <3
 

napZzz

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
5,294
Location
cg, MN
i think rain vs ally is a horrible example; rain got read like a book and punished by someone who was playing on a completely different level.

also, dtilt can punish phantasm <3
I dont think allys THAT much better than rain, but he displayed knowledge of the matchup by forcing falco into situations where he could abuse him (hence the strong reads) and was limiting his options fairly well and applied proper pressure

I might start crouching while holding a nade in situations where falco might phantasm near the ledge and seeing if I can dtilt attack it or at least come out with him doing phantasm on my shield and MAYBE blowing up depending on the timing (or maybe even a trade, which I'm fine with provided I've got the upperhand at the time or its lower percents to just get out of cg range), sort of gimmicky but I wanna try it and see if its a simpler way to stop phantasm abuse. Everything is different from paper to application =)
 
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