ATTN: New Pikas: The RIGHT Way to FH Thunder Jolt.

KayLo! · Apr 28, 2010

All right, so here's something I've noticed after watching and/or playing many, many new Pikachu players: lots of you do not know how to FH tjolt the right way. (Other experienced players I've brought it up to have noticed this as well.) This advice won't be game-breaking for you, but it will certainly improve your Pika and keep you from getting punished so often.

This is the WRONG way to FH tjolt:
- Input jump, then hit the B button.
When you do it this way, tjolt comes out as Pikachu gets to the peak of his jump. The reason why this is bad is that you are stuck in cooldown lag when you hit the ground, so if the opponent shields the jolt, they can easily punish you (usually with a grab or long-ranged ground move, provided they're within range to do so).

This is the RIGHT way to FH tjolt:
- Input jump and hit the B button at the same time.
This way, Pikachu tjolts as he rises off the ground, and you can double jump before you hit the ground since you're not stuck in cooldown. This allows you to DJ into an aerial if they try to rush in and punish, or you can jump out of the way of an incoming move. It's not foolproof (especially if they pshield the jolt), but it leaves you much, much less punishable. Even if you decide not to use your second jump, it's still better to not be in tjolt's endlag when you land.

Just thought I'd comment on this since I've seen it so often with newer Pikas, and tjolt is a significant part of Pika's game. Not gonna lie, I get lazy in friendlies and do it the wrong way too..... but when it comes to serious matches, it can make a big difference, so do it right plz. =P

global-wolf · Apr 28, 2010

Ooh, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks!

Zolga Owns · Apr 28, 2010

I've been doing it wrong the whole time. That makes me feel bad, I wonder what other REALLY basic things I do wrong. T_T
Wow. Now that I'm comparing my game to Anther, ESAM, Z, etc I can see the difference in how the TJ's look.
Well, I guess I'll be punished less now(even though I usually only TJ in safe situations so I don't get punished much if at all)

KayLo! · Apr 28, 2010

Don't feel bad! I did it the wrong way for a long time too..... and since it's something that's never really mentioned, a lot of people never break the habit. Or take a really long time to.

The biggest benefit to doing it the right way is that you can use tjolt for baiting. Tjolt > they shield/avoid it and rush in to try to grab or whatever > you nair/fair/dair or DJ + fastfall with an aerial. Depends on what they do, obviously, but having those options available is a good thing.

Syko_Lemming · Apr 28, 2010

When you say "- Input jump and hit the B button at the same time.", do you mean really at the same time, or within a couple frames after the jump crouch?

Ussi · Apr 28, 2010

Good thing my R is set to jump, now to make good use of r + b

KayLo! · Apr 28, 2010

@Syko: I'm sure a couple of frames won't make a huge difference, but I generally input them simultaneously.

The important thing is that you can DJ before you hit the ground or can otherwise land lag-free.

Deleted member · Apr 29, 2010

Oh ****… Lol, i've been doing it wrong since, like, i started playing as pika. Thank you soooooo much!

KayLo! · Apr 29, 2010

Np!

Btw, @Ussi: If you're using R to jump, I highly recommend taking the springs out of your shoulder button(s). I use L, and on an unmodded controller, it's easy to accidentally hit B before the shoulder button makes it all the way down (because of the springs)...... which results in a grounded tjolt. >< Obviously not good.

It's not necessary, but it's pretty helpful.

Zajice · Apr 29, 2010

I have no springs in my shoulder buttons because they're annoying.

gamesuxcard · Apr 29, 2010

People are just now doing this?

KayLo! · Apr 29, 2010

I'm not surprised. It's not something that comes naturally at first for a lot of players, especially for people new to Brawl, and it's not ever mentioned or suggested -- even when people are giving critiques.

Most people seem to jump with X when they tjolt, so they naturally hit X, then hit the B button a split second later. It doesn't feel immediately comfortable to press them both at the same time (or to move your thumb from one to the other so fast that it's essentially simultaneous).

gamesuxcard · Apr 29, 2010

yeah, i understand. i have l set to special cause i tjolt a lot.

global-wolf · Apr 29, 2010

I might actually have a use for the L now xD

Also, how do you take the springs out?

gamesuxcard · Apr 29, 2010

get a tri wing screwdriver, carefully take your controller apart, remove springs. it's pretty simple once you get it open.

Syko_Lemming · Apr 29, 2010

I can't seem to get this to work, lol

Edit: nvm, I figured out the timing

iiDEMIGODz · Apr 29, 2010

Noted, good to know!

Zeroxius · Apr 29, 2010

Derr! *facepalm*

Imma do dat nao!

altairian · Apr 30, 2010

Hmm..I jump with X and have Y bound to grab. FH tjolts are hard for me to do "right" =(

I can do them without landing lag, but sometimes I accidentally SH which is kinda begging to get smacked.

gamesuxcard · Apr 30, 2010

I have the same alt. do you use both l and r?

if so, tap jump>>special makes it easier, too.

altairian · Apr 30, 2010

I play with tap jump off, but I don't use R so that's an option.

I dunno at this point I don't think this is a significant issue to my gameplay lol, but when I get better I'll have to figure out of X is good enough or if I need to bind another jump button.

gamesuxcard · Apr 30, 2010

you can always set r to special if you dont want another jump button. it makes b reversing easier too, imo, to have a shoulder special button.

altairian · Apr 30, 2010

I'd set it to jump to make pikastorming easier as well. I'm actually pretty good at b-reversing.

KayLo! · Apr 30, 2010

Doing FH tjolts the right way isn't extremely important, but it's really helpful, imo. It lets you play around with baiting and using jolts to set up approaches a lot more, which is important since Pika's short-ranged and can have trouble getting inside characters who zone him out.

I dunno, I find it significant enough for an extra jump button. =X You could also just practice hitting X/Y + B at the same time...... I think Prime said that's what he does.

altairian · Apr 30, 2010

Y+B is pretty easy, X+B is hard cause there's a giant A button in your way lol. I can do it fast enough to get a lagless tjolt, the issue is more the accidental SH's. I could do crazy stuff like claw my controller for FJ tjolts maybe, lol.

KayLo! · Apr 30, 2010

Ew claw.

I dunno, I picked L since I wasn't using it for anything else.

........Come to think of it, I don't use Y for anything either, although I always switch it to grab. x.x

Leaf. · May 2, 2010

Before I used cube, FH jolts were pretty easy, C+B. But now, I switched Y to special. I only use it to jolt, but it's effective enough to use it for only that.

I may learn to use other special stuff with that button, but I like my B.

Terios the Hedgehog · May 2, 2010

Doing rising attacks aren't used by newer players in general for some reason. ****. Where would Ganon be without his rising Dair...... nvm. :D

Okay. But Falco's. It's an awesome out of shield option for Fox. Necessary for when you utilt them with Pika and wanna follow up.

But you can do it by hitting jump then moving to B. I never had problems with it. :<

PZ · May 2, 2010

Is DJ T-Jolt good after a FH T-jolt or should it be avoided?

Terios the Hedgehog · May 2, 2010

Do a rising jolt on the way up and you're fine. Careful around people fast enough to powershield both and get in though.

KayLo! · May 2, 2010

Depends on how they react since your landing will be really predictable after a second jolt, but it's not bad if you're trying to straight up tjolt camp. If they shield the first jolt and try to rush forward with an attack, you can retreating DJ another jolt if you don't want to risk an aerial/landing.

It's not really good or bad, just another option.

EDIT: Ninja'd. ;;

PZ · May 2, 2010

Terios the Hedgehog said:
Do a rising jolt on the way up and you're fine. Careful around people fast enough to powershield both and get in though.

Ok thanks terios.

Deleted member · May 3, 2010

Hm..I'll have to try this out tonight.

Kantō · May 4, 2010

im pretty sure ive been doing this sub-conciously.

good thing to point out though so i can look for that in my game.

LooftWaffles · May 5, 2010

Application question.

Can you QAC before the full hop lands? I dont know, since QA isnt the best as far as start up is concerned. If notN i guess it would be alot easier anyway to djQAC

Syko_Lemming · May 5, 2010

Yes, you should have time to QA if you are doing it right.

KayLo! · May 5, 2010

Yeah, you can QA before you land.

EDIT: D'oh, ninja'd.

cali'c · May 6, 2010

I don't know, ... I really like the default controls and the way they set up, I always thought that I go from jump to b real quick, but now looking on it, I think scince that they are just next of one another, that I actually hit them as the same button in a slide-rolling motion.

but, for sure, full hop thunderjolts are super punishable, especially for characters that can beat them out with aerials.

it seems for me that I very rarely use full hops

KayLo! · May 6, 2010

Lots of people can do FH tjolts just fine with X + B.... depends on how fast you can move your thumb. I wasn't saying it's a bad setup, but setting a shoulder button to jump can make it easier for people with not-so-fast fingers. Like me, hehe.

Tjolts in general are extremely punishable if you don't space them well, especially against long-range/disjointed characters (ex: Marth, Snake). But they're by far better than SH and grounded jolts in most situations.

Kiiro Caballero · May 22, 2010

is it bad to short hop a thunder jolt?

ATTN: New Pikas: The RIGHT Way to FH Thunder Jolt.

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