Snake vs. Wario

Underload · May 3, 2010

Discuss the Wario matchup in here. Discussion is open indefinitely. Don't be afraid to post.

Bulletpoints:

Things really depend on what kind of Wario you're fighting. You're going to be acting one way if it's a campy Wario, and another if it's a more aggressive one.
Wario has the tools to gimp you at low percents. If he bites your cypher, it's the same as a cyphergrab. You can't use it again, unless you blow yourself up / get hit again. Be wary, and recover high, and from as far away from Wario as possible.
Wario gets wrecked by air releases. It's highly recommended you learn what can and can't hit Wario out of a grab release, and use it whenever necessary. Getting grabs are easy kills at high percents.
When Wario is going for a kill, it'll usually come in four forms. The three obvious moves are uair, fsmash, and waft. Be wary of when a Wario might try to get a waft off on you, and watch for uairs from below. Also, if you're recovering close to the blast zones, ballsy Warios will jump out & either nair or bair you to death. Happens to me all the time.
Wario's easy to techchase.
For stages, ban Brinstar. Strike FD and Smashville, since Wario can avoid grab release kills there. Your best counterpick is by far Final Destination.
Most people said 50:50, so that's the number unless I get told otherwise.

Notable Posts:

Underload said:
I thought I'd start off this one, since I know a decent amount about Wario.

Snake's Pros / Wario's Cons:

Better range makes it hard for Wario to get in

You can do pretty much anything you want out of an air release

It's relatively easy to rack up damage with grenades / C4

Wario's Pros / Snake's Cons:

Bite chains can get you offstage at low percents

Great mobility makes landing random moves difficult

Takes huge advantage of your bad aerial mobility, and punishes with uairs, fsmashes, and random farts

I hate this matchup, seriously. After some offline experience against a relatively good player, I hate playing this matchup. It's easy to manage if you know what to expect, but otherwise you're subjected to annoying acts comparable to a fly buzzing around your ear.

Lower percentages will be a bit random. Wario will be hopping around a lot, trying to get behind you and land dairs / grabs. Or, he could be playing cat and mouse, and making you throw out random grenades and forcing you into blowing up your C4 on red herrings. Either way, you're going to want to look for a clear opening. Wario's relatively easy to techchase, laughably easy to rack damage off of when air released, and gets destroyed by a couple of clean ftilts. The problem with that whole scenario? Getting an opening. Wario is incessantly good at avoiding grabs (it's kind of necessary for him to do so >.>). Either grab the bull by the horns and watch for grab opportunities while defending with C4, or just pick your battles and get chip damage whenever you can get it.

Once you start reaching higher percents, things start to change a little bit. Let's assume you're at about 150%, and Wario's at about 125%. He'll expect you to be on the defensive, shielding his approaches and running away from potential kill moves. You'll be expecting him to avoid a grab at all costs, jumping around and waiting for that one fart / fsmash / uair opening. Again, catch him on his mistakes. Plant a C4 on the one platform he seems to favor most, use your superior range to maybe catch him with the edge of utilt or ftilt2. Your best bet is to look for mistakes, because otherwise you'll have yourself one camping Wario and one frustrated you, chasing after him.

One last thing worth mentioning is what to do when in the air. At high percents, Wario will be looking for one of two things: Uair and fsmash. If you wavebounce a grenade too low, and don't get rid of it while preparing to airdodge / powershield, he'll catch you with a clean fsmash. If you're a bit more finesse with your recovery, he'll come up from below and try to get the easy uair. Take advantage of his patterns, and plan accordingly. FF dairs work at times, and bairing REALLY EARLY helps, too. Remember that Wario's fsmash has invincibility frames, so if you try to hit him with that initial hitbox, chances are he'll just take the damage and send YOU flying.

Overall? It's 50:50. Too many gay things happen on both sides to constitute any sort of clear advantage.

etecoon said:
I think it's 55:45 wario, even on neutrals usually if you play super super gay but wario has much better stage counterpicks. this is something that I think in general people here don't take into account enough, they probably practice mostly on like SV/FD etc. and don't really account for how bad RC and brinstar can be as well as other stages sometimes

if you do grab him uair/bair/utilt him, it's very easy for wario to SDI out of nair and hit you and sticking him is also pretty worthless by comparison

you need to DI anything powerful up very well, wario can chase you off stage and gimp you better than most you do NOT want to be parallel/below the stage. likewise don't go jumping around everywhere constantly, if you get hit out of your second jump at a low angle you're pretty ****ed

Bizkit047 said:
I hate this matchup too. Wario has the ability to kill Snake pretty well, specifically with waft readings.

Pros:
Snake still lives long
Out ranges Wario
Grab releases Wario into free damage
Easy to tech chase Wario

Cons:
Punishes Snake in the air extremely well
Can bite gimp Snake easily off stage
Unpredictable aerial movements

It really depends on what kind of Wario player you're fighting to know what to do. Some Warios will camp the entire match, especially on platformed stages. Others will randomly approach with Dairs/Bite/Fair/Uair. If you're playing a camping Wario, you're going to have to camp back with nades. Do not just jump aerials at Wario in the air, it does not work too well. Cook nades well and hit him with those. If you're playing the randomly approaching aerial Wario, try pivot grabbing.

I think it's important to mention Warios gimping ability first. He has the potential to 0 to death us (then again, so do other characters). I would suggest staying away from the ledge and keeping C4 off the stage at low %'s like other matchups. Wario may try to grab Fthrow you or Bite throw you off stage for a gimp attempt. Many Snakes will instinctively double jump air dodge onto the stage from this. If it's read, Wario can just Fair you back off stage where you don't have a double jump and will have to Up B, resulting in a gimp. The best thing you can probably do is to recover high and straight up or even slightly away from the stage immediately. This will avoid bite gimps. It takes practice and experience to avoid them, but once you do you should be fine as long as you don't get completely read. If you're in a position where you know you're going to get bit, just C4 yourself right before it. Better than losing a stock.

About bite in general, it goes through shield and punishes people who sidestep in front of Wario. So with that said, spamming shield against Wario or sidestep is a bad idea. If you know a bite's coming, you can space yourself away from it and punish with ftilt (wait for it to end for best results). Bite happy Warios can be stopped by nades too, it's a free punish if Wario bites a nade.

Grab releasing is also very important to know. When you grab Wario, do not pummel him. Just let him grab release in the air. If you learn how to buffer them, you can do Nair/Uair/Bair and Utilt to Wario fairly easy. It's a free KO if utilt is fresh at 130% I believe. If there are platforms, like on BF, just dthrow tech chase. As you can't really punish Wario out of it other than utilt before he lands on the platform. Tech chasing Wario is pretty easy due to small roll range and bad getup attack.

Try to punish Wario out of his bike attack, especially when he recovers. When Wario is using Bike, he HAS to jump to get off of it, short of running into a wall or something. Predict the jump, and you can punish it with an aerial. I would try a Bair, Fair is too slow. If you hit him with a Bair that could gimp him.

If the Bike is on stage, I like to sometimes put C4 on top of it so it's not visible. That way, if the Wario goes towards the bike to use or get rid of it, just detonate it.

A lot of Warios like to get Fsmash happy when Snake is at high %. Don't sidestep in front of Wario. Shield and wait for it, then punish. If you do get hit, it's pretty easy to DI up to survive it unless you're at like 160%+ and it's fresh.

For killing, Wario is going to kill you with Fsmash/Uair/Waft or a gimp. Nothing else is really too viable to kill you with. That said, it means he's going to have to kill you in the air most of the time. So be careful with your landing when recovering. If they read your air dodge, your stock is gone. Pivot nading away is very useful here. Likewise, you can KO Wario with quite a few moves, but I would imagine utilt will be the most common other than random grab release aerials.

Pay attention to Wario's waft charging. Learn how long it takes for it to become a kill move. When it gets to that point, most Warios will try to bait you to get hit by one, such as waiting for an air dodge. Try not to pull out a nade either when Wario may do it, as it goes through the Nade and still kills you.

For stages, I suggest banning Brinstar or Rainbow Cruise. I see Warios CP Brinstar ALL the time, because it's a great stage for Wario. Rainbow Cruise isn't a great stage to fight Wario on either, due to Uair ****** you on the platforms. You can deal with both stages if you have to, but I find that Warios just aerial camp the entire matches on Brinstar. The other option they would have is Delfino. For neutrals, I feel FD is our best stage vs them. BF may not be the smartest choice due to Uair, but it can work fine.

That's about it. I'm not too great at this matchup, but I do know a decent amount about it. Probably forgot some stuff as usual. I say it's 50-50 really. Wario has the gimp and ***** Snake in the air, and Snake has the grab release and tech chase.

Video for reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7fJk59S5RM
Though it's Ally, and he's never a good reference for these as it's Ally lmao.

Underload · May 3, 2010

I thought I'd start off this one, since I know a decent amount about Wario.

Snake's Pros / Wario's Cons:

Better range makes it hard for Wario to get in
You can do pretty much anything you want out of an air release
It's relatively easy to rack up damage with grenades / C4

Wario's Pros / Snake's Cons:

Bite chains can get you offstage at low percents
Great mobility makes landing random moves difficult
Takes huge advantage of your bad aerial mobility, and punishes with uairs, fsmashes, and random farts

I hate this matchup, seriously. After some offline experience against a relatively good player, I hate playing this matchup. It's easy to manage if you know what to expect, but otherwise you're subjected to annoying acts comparable to a fly buzzing around your ear.

Lower percentages will be a bit random. Wario will be hopping around a lot, trying to get behind you and land dairs / grabs. Or, he could be playing cat and mouse, and making you throw out random grenades and forcing you into blowing up your C4 on red herrings. Either way, you're going to want to look for a clear opening. Wario's relatively easy to techchase, laughably easy to rack damage off of when air released, and gets destroyed by a couple of clean ftilts. The problem with that whole scenario? Getting an opening. Wario is incessantly good at avoiding grabs (it's kind of necessary for him to do so >.>). Either grab the bull by the horns and watch for grab opportunities while defending with C4, or just pick your battles and get chip damage whenever you can get it.

Once you start reaching higher percents, things start to change a little bit. Let's assume you're at about 150%, and Wario's at about 125%. He'll expect you to be on the defensive, shielding his approaches and running away from potential kill moves. You'll be expecting him to avoid a grab at all costs, jumping around and waiting for that one fart / fsmash / uair opening. Again, catch him on his mistakes. Plant a C4 on the one platform he seems to favor most, use your superior range to maybe catch him with the edge of utilt or ftilt2. Your best bet is to look for mistakes, because otherwise you'll have yourself one camping Wario and one frustrated you, chasing after him.

One last thing worth mentioning is what to do when in the air. At high percents, Wario will be looking for one of two things: Uair and fsmash. If you wavebounce a grenade too low, and don't get rid of it while preparing to airdodge / powershield, he'll catch you with a clean fsmash. If you're a bit more finesse with your recovery, he'll come up from below and try to get the easy uair. Take advantage of his patterns, and plan accordingly. FF dairs work at times, and bairing REALLY EARLY helps, too. Remember that Wario's fsmash has invincibility frames, so if you try to hit him with that initial hitbox, chances are he'll just take the damage and send YOU flying.

Overall? It's 50:50. Too many gay things happen on both sides to constitute any sort of clear advantage.

etecoon · May 3, 2010

I think it's 55:45 wario, even on neutrals usually if you play super super gay but wario has much better stage counterpicks. this is something that I think in general people here don't take into account enough, they probably practice mostly on like SV/FD etc. and don't really account for how bad RC and brinstar can be as well as other stages sometimes

if you do grab him uair/bair/utilt him, it's very easy for wario to SDI out of nair and hit you and sticking him is also pretty worthless by comparison

you need to DI anything powerful up very well, wario can chase you off stage and gimp you better than most you do NOT want to be parallel/below the stage. likewise don't go jumping around everywhere constantly, if you get hit out of your second jump at a low angle you're pretty ****ed

CO18 · May 3, 2010

I think wario beats snake slightly as long as they're patient

Bizkit047 · May 3, 2010

I hate this matchup too. Wario has the ability to kill Snake pretty well, specifically with waft readings.

Pros:
Snake still lives long
Out ranges Wario
Grab releases Wario into free damage
Easy to tech chase Wario

Cons:
Punishes Snake in the air extremely well
Can bite gimp Snake easily off stage
Unpredictable aerial movements

It really depends on what kind of Wario player you're fighting to know what to do. Some Warios will camp the entire match, especially on platformed stages. Others will randomly approach with Dairs/Bite/Fair/Uair. If you're playing a camping Wario, you're going to have to camp back with nades. Do not just jump aerials at Wario in the air, it does not work too well. Cook nades well and hit him with those. If you're playing the randomly approaching aerial Wario, try pivot grabbing.

I think it's important to mention Warios gimping ability first. He has the potential to 0 to death us (then again, so do other characters). I would suggest staying away from the ledge and keeping C4 off the stage at low %'s like other matchups. Wario may try to grab Fthrow you or Bite throw you off stage for a gimp attempt. Many Snakes will instinctively double jump air dodge onto the stage from this. If it's read, Wario can just Fair you back off stage where you don't have a double jump and will have to Up B, resulting in a gimp. The best thing you can probably do is to recover high and straight up or even slightly away from the stage immediately. This will avoid bite gimps. It takes practice and experience to avoid them, but once you do you should be fine as long as you don't get completely read. If you're in a position where you know you're going to get bit, just C4 yourself right before it. Better than losing a stock.

About bite in general, it goes through shield and punishes people who sidestep in front of Wario. So with that said, spamming shield against Wario or sidestep is a bad idea. If you know a bite's coming, you can space yourself away from it and punish with ftilt (wait for it to end for best results). Bite happy Warios can be stopped by nades too, it's a free punish if Wario bites a nade.

Grab releasing is also very important to know. When you grab Wario, do not pummel him. Just let him grab release in the air. If you learn how to buffer them, you can do Nair/Uair/Bair and Utilt to Wario fairly easy. It's a free KO if utilt is fresh at 130% I believe. If there are platforms, like on BF, just dthrow tech chase. As you can't really punish Wario out of it other than utilt before he lands on the platform. Tech chasing Wario is pretty easy due to small roll range and bad getup attack.

Try to punish Wario out of his bike attack, especially when he recovers. When Wario is using Bike, he HAS to jump to get off of it, short of running into a wall or something. Predict the jump, and you can punish it with an aerial. I would try a Bair, Fair is too slow. If you hit him with a Bair that could gimp him.

If the Bike is on stage, I like to sometimes put C4 on top of it so it's not visible. That way, if the Wario goes towards the bike to use or get rid of it, just detonate it.

A lot of Warios like to get Fsmash happy when Snake is at high %. Don't sidestep in front of Wario. Shield and wait for it, then punish. If you do get hit, it's pretty easy to DI up to survive it unless you're at like 160%+ and it's fresh.

For killing, Wario is going to kill you with Fsmash/Uair/Waft or a gimp. Nothing else is really too viable to kill you with. That said, it means he's going to have to kill you in the air most of the time. So be careful with your landing when recovering. If they read your air dodge, your stock is gone. Pivot nading away is very useful here. Likewise, you can KO Wario with quite a few moves, but I would imagine utilt will be the most common other than random grab release aerials.

Pay attention to Wario's waft charging. Learn how long it takes for it to become a kill move. When it gets to that point, most Warios will try to bait you to get hit by one, such as waiting for an air dodge. Try not to pull out a nade either when Wario may do it, as it goes through the Nade and still kills you.

For stages, I suggest banning Brinstar or Rainbow Cruise. I see Warios CP Brinstar ALL the time, because it's a great stage for Wario. Rainbow Cruise isn't a great stage to fight Wario on either, due to Uair ****** you on the platforms. You can deal with both stages if you have to, but I find that Warios just aerial camp the entire matches on Brinstar. The other option they would have is Delfino. For neutrals, I feel FD is our best stage vs them. BF may not be the smartest choice due to Uair, but it can work fine.

That's about it. I'm not too great at this matchup, but I do know a decent amount about it. Probably forgot some stuff as usual. I say it's 50-50 really. Wario has the gimp and ***** Snake in the air, and Snake has the grab release and tech chase.

Video for reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7fJk59S5RM
Though it's Ally, and he's never a good reference for these as it's Ally lmao.

Sake-Hato · May 3, 2010

I Hate this matchup not that i dont know it but it takes time and more time.....

Snakes Pros;
1]Nades and traps aka setups
2]grab release
3]heavy/more range?
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Snakes Cons;
1]wario gimps easy due to bite
2] amazing air game witch we hate people with amazing air game -__-
3]Fart kills at low % well not super low but you get the idea
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This matchup is who plays gayer,whatever you do dont let him get the % lead or else you will have to chase instead you should start the match campy with the nades and get the higher % and let him come to you. prepare for alot of air camping from wario so what i would recommend is a nade drop to nair catch for a safe nair so even if you miss boom you wont get punish as hard as with no nade but dont get predictable! mix it up and get technical as possible. Snakes grab realse great on wario you can Bair,Upair,Nair,and uptilt bad thing is nair can get SDI out of so i suggest not to do it(nair).snakes pivot grab is another great tool for campy wario's it shuts down his approach 60% of the time you gata time it right.Dont go near the stage at low % keep away from the edge and stay in the middle as much as possible.

AfroQT · May 4, 2010

No one has mentioned pivot grab yet for some reason.
Snake Pivot Grab >>> All of Wario's options period.

Bizkit047 · May 4, 2010

I mentioned it a few times.

xDD-Master · May 5, 2010

Wario 6 : 4 Snake (I prefer 10 point system about 100)

Snake can't do **** to Wario (OK he can, but its REALLY hard).
Everything Snake does is about waiting for a mistake / mindgame. If Wario dont do to many faults and if he mixes up his game (so that he cant get too predictable), Snake is easily messed up.

Snake can still win. But the Snake has to be a lot smarter and maybe more skilled than the wario player. Wario is aerial mobility is just too good. He really can force you do XY. For example he jumps in (Above you), now you have the options:
1) Pull a nade -> He can just "move" away... forcing you to get away of your nade, or you pick it up <- This is the moment where he will get in to you to attack... or if he realizes its not enough time / nade will explode too soon, he can just wait a moment longer.
2) You try to jump in with a random aerial -> Wario will airdodge, attacking you after that, or chasing your landing with a grab / fsmash mix-up.
3) You go shield / spotdodge ... eh -> BiteLOL
4) You try to uptilt -> Airdodge to punish, or he uses his movement to get behind you <- Dair / Bite (Maybe even FFing to grab / fsmash if he was low enough)
5) you want to roll away -> D: Wario is quick enough to follow / punish your roll at last in one way (Fair / Bair) he may just move away, going for a second attempt.
6) you jump / spotdodge awy -> Eh, vs Wario in the Air is not always the best idea D:
7) Pivot Grabbing... well -> Dair / fair / bair will hit anyway if wario does it right (Spacing)

Most of these options are relatively easy to read by a good wario. Additional Wario has an amazing fart, which, other than in most match-ups, will kill you very soon. He also has a bite which can gimp you, but this doesnt happen so often, if you play carefully.
What I find really useful in this match-up is nadecamping, and more than this, I find myself "hiding" under mortars, since this will at least limits wario very good vertical approach, one the other hand, he CAN destroy them with fair / bair and I even think dair, but its a bit risky for him, and I am not sure if every Wario main would try this :/

I already read that Wario is very annoying and like a fly you cant get rid off. And really, he just is. You cant tell me that you find a match-up in which get annoyed and gayed the whole match an even MU.
It sure is possibly for Snake, but the Snake just has to overcome Wario amazing aerial mobility, since this what makes Wario and especially this MU so broken, Snake is just too slow to cancel out this huge advantage of Wario.
At least with a few mindgames he can do nice damage and stuff on wario, but it sure isnt easy if the Wario player doesnt get too predictable with his moves and dont play on auto-mode but uses his head.
As for CPs/Stages: I agree that FD maybe is the best starter. On SV wario can camp so good due to platform (Well you can place a C4 on it... but then again you may need it to recover). And BF... well at least you can camp somewhat under a platform.
FD has enough space to stay mostly in the middle, so you cant get gimped and this is what I mostly try, lead the match, stay in the middle, try to read his movement (Wario often try to get behind snake... reverse Uptilt for example), etc.

What I find very important in this MU, is to get the first %.
Because if Wario gets the first %, he could potentially (And I really think its possible), camp you out for 7.50 minutes without taking any damage. This is why I always try to start hitting him at least with a nade (4-5% C-Throw) and then beginning the camp-/mindgamefest.

At least this is my impression on this match-up and sadly I am sure, that if Wario and Snake are played on very top level, Wario shuts down Snake... at least most, if not all, of his options especially the ones he needs to get the lead back since he can, like in most MUs, still camp very well.

Bizkit047 · May 6, 2010

Finally put up a video of this matchup. Not the best example, but I literally have no saved replays against any Warios.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg_c-M8Kpao

Crackle · May 7, 2010

xDD-Master said:
Wario 6 : 4 Snake (I prefer 10 point system about 100)

Snake can't do **** to Wario (OK he can, but its REALLY hard).
Everything Snake does is about waiting for a mistake / mindgame. If Wario dont do to many faults and if he mixes up his game (so that he cant get too predictable), Snake is easily messed up.

About the spacing: Snake has grenades, ftilt, and he can take as many steps backwards when pivot grabbing or even boost pivot grab. Assuming that the Snake is just this predictable "ftilt/utilt / shield nub" is really not describing the meta game with justice.

Spacing is something we control and screw with, you approach us.

etecoon · May 7, 2010

wario may have to approach but he does so on his own terms, grenades take 3.5 seconds to detonate, they aren't forcing a character as mobile as wario to do ****

Calzorz · May 7, 2010

erm id actually say 50/50 from experiance , reason : well wario can air camp all day avoiding the majority of nades obvioulsy ul get hit by some perfect timed ones and stuff but as soon as snake throws a nade thats warios time to look for an opening really sometimes it wil be hard for wario to make an aproach as snake can space with n air which works well on air campers like wario , once wario gets that opening from 0% u can basially make like a 40% combo atleast starting from a d air also wario is heavy also which makes it more even and the fart can be used to punish recovary at times , the grab release lets see waht we have we have grab release to n air , u air and up tilt , the n air is big % but if ur oponent can smash di then thats not really a problem for them , the up air and up tilt are both strong killing moves but as we all know wario is 1 of the hardest chars to get a grab on at times and his air movment is amazing making it hard to get a kill sometimes even with the hitbox on the up tilt

!

il post more if ppl need but yea 50/50 matchup cant say its in any1s favour

xDD-Master · May 7, 2010

Bizkit047 said:
Finally put up a video of this matchup. Not the best example, but I literally have no saved replays against any Warios.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg_c-M8Kpao

OMFG this Wario is... XD :laugh:

xDDDDD OMG xD So bad

embarrass:embarrass (needs mor Glutonny

)

Crackle said:
About the spacing: Snake has grenades, ftilt, and he can take as many steps backwards when pivot grabbing or even boost pivot grab. Assuming that the Snake is just this predictable "ftilt/utilt / shield nub" is really not describing the meta game with justice.

Spacing is something we control and screw with, you approach us.

Did you read everything

? I mentioned nade camping ^^

But I realized that I made A LOT of typing-mistakes, I may correct it (I was very tired, it was around ~4 am around here)

The problem about Nades and stuff is simply that it limits your own options. With an Wario that has so many options when he jumps around you, I'm not sure if its the best Idea to spam those nades. Wario can get around them relatively easy, Shield Drop -> A may work better, but still, if he then hits you, you get the damage for your nade :S (If you cant dodge soon enough).

As for Pivot Grabbing, no real good Wario, will land that often in your pivot grab range when have the option to do it. The will mostly move away just the moment you begin to walk/dash away. I even think the grab start-up would be enough to get away, but this is out of reaction I guess.

@Calzorz: Your text was like "Wario can do this, this, this, this, this and this" and "Snake can do this... and this". Is this what you call an even Match-Up xD ?

Nair is also not the best options, only against big, fat & slow Characters. Wario can easily get out I think, which could lead into a free fart :/

Morningstar · May 11, 2010

PhantomX always tries to bite my cypher offstage, then footstool my C4 recovery. :/

What a ****

napZzz · May 11, 2010

I've played hunger before and talked to him a bit about it...and all he ever tells me is that snake should just boost pivot grab alot I guess....I dont really have much experience beyond that, other than that snake can do GR uair/bair and you can mix it up to get lower percent kills and **** with their DI. I think the sweetspot uair kills around 120-130% anyways

I dunno I have a feeling this one can be slightly in the favor of one depending on stage....like really really stage dependent

etecoon · May 11, 2010

pivot grab is good but like everything snake does you are wide open if you miss, and boost pivot grabbing increases your likelyhood of missing because you move further back before the grab box comes out

hunger! · May 12, 2010

etecoon said:
pivot grab is good but like everything snake does you are wide open if you miss, and boost pivot grabbing increases your likelyhood of missing because you move further back before the grab box comes out

bullshiiit. It just makes your grab range WAY BIGGER. snakes boost pivot grab is busted

This matchup is 55:45 wario imo. Snake sucks balls unless you're ally or razer, Fact. PEACE

Attila_ · May 15, 2010

snake's pivot really isnt that big. seriously. the disjoint is quite small. if you disagree, try pivot grabbing nado. it's really, really difficult.

i dont have too much experience, but one of the oos warios gives me some massive issues. watching vids online, the only recent stuff i could find was ally vs malcolm, where ally spams nair, and malcolm doesnt sdi it for some reason. seriously, no excuses for wario to get hit by all four hits...

etecoon · May 16, 2010

srsly. I wouldn't consider myself to have great SDI or anything but I can do it pretty easily. wario makes that kind of stuff soooo much easier

Hot_ArmS · May 17, 2010

just stage strike sv and bf right away

Crackle · May 29, 2010

This video series seems like the most fitting thing I could find to suit the "how to play" mode. Ally and Malcolm are top level players and they both do the right things but also throw out those risky moves using their experience as background knowledge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdbdyXapc1I&feature=related
Ally vs. Malcolm

The first match has the players feel each other out. The second has Ally demonstrate how to space flat surfaces with Wario (he makes it look so easy). The third has Ally get in a couple grabs and demonstrate the **** that is grab release.

Important Notes: Grab release to uptilt (safe vertical) backair (safe horizontal), downair (tricky), nair (**** percent kill if they don't SDI react)
- Ally in set reacts dependent on whether Wario recovers, is far away and bouncing around, or is in close
Ally tends to use grenades to limit Wario's landing options when he's coming down from a high height or offstage
Ally also tends to try and hold grenades in his hand as a default that conditions Wario to think he's being defensive, then throw away the grenade and jump in with nair or run in close to punish his landing

There are a lot of shenanigans when the two characters get up close and gotta deal with
Wario: fsmash/grab/nair/dair/uair/juggle vs.
Snake: ftilt/grab-dthrow/grabrelease/jab-grab/escaping juggles

Getting Juggled?
Watch for a time to safely airdodge through to the ground
If any grenades or downsmashes of yours are on the ground, try to get over them and use them as a Wario barrier
If you airdodge through chances are throwing out an uptilt will keep an aerial from putting you back up in juggle
If you are getting worked and are clueless in the air, or are on the ground and safe, pull out a grenade (it's your friend)

Trying to get in hits?
Though playing defensive and just trying to ftilt/grab/nair incoming attacks is 'smarter', it can be predictable and will enable the Wario to just start reading you
- Try to get in where the Wario doesn't expect and jab -> grab -> dthrow or release ****
- Try using grenades as "Wario cannot land here" markers
- Cook your grenades and then follow up with a grenade strip -> next cooked grenade if you're trying to hit Wario
This makes any aerial throws back helpless attempts on the part of Wario, whereas uncooked grenades can probably be 2nd throwed back after the strip

Trying to Damage rack from a Grab?
If percent is too low (early 100's or less) do a dthrow and followup with a techchase.
- Dthrow is responded to by getup -> grab, getup attack, or rolls The Wario chooses the timing on all of these
- Be patient with your shield, use it on the get up attack and you can then either uptilt for the kill or regrab
- If they roll, the Wario roll is terrible so techchase it. If you can't react fast enough then ftilt him as he gets up
- Watch out for Wario's get up as he will then be free to read you and punish if you don't realize in time and tilt or regrab. Basically if he doesn't swing his hand out but his head is coming up he's doing a get up and probably will grab you and start trying to juggle.

Trying to kill from a Grab?
- Grab release to dair, bair, nair, and uptilt are all viable kill moves. I haven't actually seen dair work before, however, and it as well as nair can be SDI'd out of if the Wario reacts (most don't). Therefore the safe moves are backair, uptilt.

Trying to kill otherwise?
- Bait an aerial chase and air dodge down to the ground with an upair.
- Throw out a backwards jump to second jump to backair QUICKLY to catch an unwary, bouncing around Wario

Trying to RECOVER?
- Always always always cypher away if you're too low then C4 yourself near the horizontal blastzone
- HE WILL CHOMP CYPHER IF HE SEES IT COMING AND CAN JUMP TO IT
- Jump immediately back on stage with a well timed airdodge if you see the opening
- Ideally you want to go high (so DI up when you're hit except for by uair) and use all the b-reversal, backair, airdodge
you can to outmaneuver and stay safe (also note that you can throw grenades from offscreen above and have them fall down as barriers to protect landing)

Remember:
- If you don't give the Wario options to land (as they almost always will be jumping around because of your ftilt) they won't be safe when they come back down
- If you get thrown, you will be trying to avoid a juggle
- If you get DACUS'd (you shouldn't if you keep safe ftilts ready) you will be trying to avoid a juggle
- If you get aerial'd in general, you will be trying to avoid a juggle

Keep your cool and stay safe. Keep grenades by your side they are your anti-juggle friends when you're in the air and you left a grenade on the ground. They also keep the Wario from outright aerial attacking you.

Try to choose FD, try not to give Wario platforms (recovery will be a *****, and he will be moving confusingly).
If you are good at BattleField area control, use it, but mind the small space and amount of area Wario can bounce around.

Please comment back if you guys think I need edits or am outright wrong in a lot of aspects.

AfroQT · May 30, 2010

hunger! said:
bullshiiit. It just makes your grab range WAY BIGGER. snakes boost pivot grab is busted

This matchup is 55:45 wario imo. Snake sucks balls unless you're ally or razer, Fact. PEACE

**** i want to congratulate you on the amount of **** riding in this post.
As well as it making no sense.

CY@

CO18 · May 30, 2010

Hey Wario beats snake.

You shall concede Afro

Takeover1806 · May 30, 2010

lol @ this post

AfroQT · May 30, 2010

CO18 said:
Hey Wario beats snake.

You shall concede Afro

I dont think so, you cant use me as a snake yet not only am i still rusty but on top of that i dont know the matchup. I think that when snake knows the matchup its ridiculously in his favor but if you dont know how to fight wario he just runs all over you hes to mindgamey.

CO18 · May 30, 2010

What after my match with Hrnut you say "he doesnt know the mu" "I do" then it was FD and you were like oh now youre gonna get super ***** lol.

Snake just doesnt have the options to just counter him like that. I think its the other way around where most warios/people in general dont know how to fight snake. I understand snakes weaknesses so Its not as hard.

Especially with cps I just dont see how snake wins

Snake is a man afterward making him mortal

AfroQT · May 31, 2010

CO18 said:
What after my match with Hrnut you say "he doesnt know the mu" "I do" then it was FD and you were like oh now youre gonna get super ***** lol.

Snake just doesnt have the options to just counter him like that. I think its the other way around where most warios/people in general dont know how to fight snake. I understand snakes weaknesses so Its not as hard.

Especially with cps I just dont see how snake wins

Snake is a man afterward making him mortal

I understand wario more but i dont FULLY know the matchup basically what im saying is that Snake knowing Wario is much more deadly then when Wario Knows Snake.

Plus like i said you cant use my Snake as an example i play so technically bad AND i dont know the matchup 100% i know some stuff but i havent fought enough warios to truly know it. I only know like 3 matchups now.

We both live in a land where everyone knows how to fight Snake hahah FL LAND OF THE SNAKE KILLERS

GDX · May 31, 2010

LOL i played badly vs you CO, if you want to do this thing for real we can MM then you can believe whether or not its bad for snake, and lol @ hunger with that biased post lol

anyways its not that bad for snake, he just has to read wario and camp well, especially if the wario is being spacy and campy, or even grab happy lol

Hrnut on Gdx's account

CO18 · May 31, 2010

didnt mk18 2-0 you too hrnut, i know its friendlies but still aka the only time he usually plays like himself

GDX · May 31, 2010

i camp alot harder and play alot smarter in tourney lol and no he didn't 2-0 me lol i'm pretty sure the last friendly set we played seriously i won

Bizkit047 · May 31, 2010

Sure is FL in here.

Limeee · Jun 3, 2010

For stages, ban Brinstar. Strike FD and Smashville, since Wario can avoid grab release kills there. Your best counterpick is by far Final Destination.

you should edit this

pretty sure you meant strike battlefield and yoshi's or lylat

ksizl4life · Jun 9, 2010

These are 2 mm's of me vs hunger, one of the best warios, for 5 dollars each. i went snake in both sets. these are from pound 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDfbzOrwnbU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0cuj53Xq_w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcpWHNDurz8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Quv01bKHSQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oo1IaSVor0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnm3WNpWDNs

enjoy i guess lol

judge! · Jun 11, 2010

wario beats snake.

napZzz · Jun 11, 2010

judge! said:
wario beats snake.

Tell that to all the people convinced snake is just a notch below mk in terms of dominance.

Renegade TX2000 · Jun 14, 2010

the match up is 5-5

Snake vs. Wario

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