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I don't understand this...

Justblaze647

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
1,932
Location
Running for my life in the forests of Eelong
This is something I've been wondering... Originally it was in my blog (here, if anyone feels any inclination to read it), and I don't think it was ever properly addressed.

So here,

There's a lot of conversation that occurs on this website. Honestly though, how much of it really pertains to Smash? Most of the time, while browsing through the boards, I spend my time searching for something interesting and thought provoking to read. It is for this reason alone that I wish I could see what kind of discussions take place in the backroom. Another problem I have is that if there is intriguing and influential discussion occurring back there (and I'm sure there is), wouldn't it be more beneficial to the community to fill us in on what's going on? Wouldn't that help developing the metagame of many characters, as opposed to just high tier? I fully understand the exclusiveness of SBR. Its almost like the golden fleece, if you will, of the entire community, and I'm not suggesting that you diminish its value whatsoever. But I don't see what could be so wrong about putting up threads of important and stirring discussion for the viewing pleasure of the boards. Make it a single post thread that we cant post on, or even have your discussion, and then allow the boards to view it and respond, much like you did with the weekly character discussion.
But seriously though, why not this? While everyone is allowed to post here (of course), I encourage some BBR members to as well.

Give me the lowdown.
 

Dan_X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
1,335
Location
Boston, MA
Part of the reason (perhaps a BIG part of it) is because allowing those important discussions to go public will not bring much good to the table. It will cause more problems than it's worth. If you hadn't noticed, many people on this forum, as is the case with any forum, are misinformed, and/or make ridiculous posts. These are the people who will have a field day in an important thread, trolling it, and fighting with this and that. These people are often not educated enough in the content material to really make an intelligent point / accusation. For example, they'd try to say that the backroom is entirely wrong, because of reasons 'X' and 'Y', even if said reasons are terribly foolish.

In the end, I agree that not everyone is like this. Plenty of people will hold healthy conversation in said thread, and would enjoy reading it. However, it would spin out of control quite quickly. In the end, it's just better to have a separate place for said conversation.
 

Dan_X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
1,335
Location
Boston, MA
You have to understand that that won't make much of a difference. It'd just make more work for mods as people would be citing those threads, and fighting certain points in NEW threads. It'd add needless confusion to the boards, and there's already enough of that. We don't need more spam.
 

Justblaze647

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
1,932
Location
Running for my life in the forests of Eelong
I disagree.

Not about the spam of course. But, realistically speaking, there's no way to completely eradicate the spam that plagues the boards nowadays. There will always be those people who think its funny to troll and detract from serious conversations. But that doesn't mean the masses should be restricted, because of the indiscretions of a few.

I disagree that revealing some of those important discussions will 'not bring much to the table.' In my honest and very humble opinion, there are way too many top level players, and people very knowledgeable of the game, back there for there to not be intellectual discussions that takes place at least some of the time. Also, imo, it is equally impossible for these discussions to have zero potential to do some good, directly or indirectly, for the boards.

As with anything else in life, you have to learn how to take the good with the bad. Besides, no one in the BBR seems to care that both the Tier list v4, as well as the Official MK discussion have been reduced to troll havens, by veteran and newer members alike. I honestly don't think this would be any different. And if that requires mods to do more work, then so be it. They are mods for a reason. Or they can always just make some new mods specifically for this purpose.
 

Purple

Hi guys!
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
Messages
10,383
Location
Duluth, Georgia
Well, I'll tell you a pretty good reason why. As said before, we don't want our great conversations tainted by the general public am I right? Even from my perspective, The SBR discusses the advancing of the metagame in a fair manner for everyone, and most people have bias towards their character or a view of thinking.

That being said, if it was public, and information from a biased person was to be used, it makes things unfair, and not as fun as it could potentially be, we don't want this.

We only want people who are willing to look outside of their own ways of thinking, and join hands with other skilled members of the community, to create something great for the general public.

Think about it a bit like the military, while everyone can join the community, only a few can be commissioned to be officers, and the chances of getting in are less likely, and the requirements to get in are a lot steeper than entering the community as a regular member. However in return, you get great connections, and great info, but only if you can bring in your own great connections and info yourself.

The SBR is accessible by anyone technically speaking, considering that you can write an application to get in. However they have to judge you to see how biased you are or might be, and to see how much effort you are truly willing to put into your community, which is why you see many SBR members are high ranking players in the world, or at LEAST highly respected community members and tournament organizers.

To say that we should take it away and give it to the general public, like I said before, taints the topic. Not everyone here is mature, and not everyone here can truly understand their bias and give good information. So we allow the SBR, Moderators, Super Moderators, Senators, and Admins choose the few for us. If they are helpful, they are kept, if they aren't helpful, they are kicked out of the BR (trust me, it happens quite often).
 

Justblaze647

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
1,932
Location
Running for my life in the forests of Eelong
Well, I'll tell you a pretty good reason why. As said before, we don't want our great conversations tainted by the general public am I right? Even from my perspective, The SBR discusses the advancing of the metagame in a fair manner for everyone, and most people have bias towards their character or a view of thinking.
Hmmm... In simpler terms, this could be viewed as keeping the masses dumb for the benefit of the elites, the select few. I find the idea that your 'great' conversations could be 'tainted' by allowing the 'general public' (i.e. the rest of the SWF community) to read them abysmal. Incomprehensible, even. Maybe I'm not understanding the way you worded this, but it sounds as if you mean to insinuate that the BBR discusses, or in other words reveals, their views or dispositions of the advancements of the metagame in a way that is organized, easily accessible, or as you put it 'fair' for the boards to acknowledge. This couldn't be more incorrect, imo. But if you think there is such a think, please provide a link to said information.

That being said, if it was public, and information from a biased person was to be used, it makes things unfair, and not as fun as it could potentially be, we don't want this.
Almost anything that anyone says can be categorized as arbitrary, subjective, or biased. People, that is to say human beings, base their opinions on experiences and information, which are normally put through rigid tests of trial and error to place them as close to the truth as possible. Because there is no universally accepted encyclopedia pertaining to all things smash, virtually anything can be disputed and/or rebutted. However, as the SBR is exalted as the most relevant authority on SWF, their views on things should be easy to justify and defend.

We only want people who are willing to look outside of their own ways of thinking, and join hands with other skilled members of the community, to create something great for the general public.
Do you mean to say that every single member of the BBR advocates original thought? That everyone back there thinks for themselves and stands up for what they believe in regardless of the views of others? That there is no such thing as conformity within their upper echelon?

It's fine for you guys to admit whoever you think is most qualified into your club, but there should honestly not be such requirements for people to just view the information.

Think about it a bit like the military, while everyone can join the community, only a few can be commissioned to be officers, and the chances of getting in are less likely, and the requirements to get in are a lot steeper than entering the community as a regular member. However in return, you get great connections, and great info, but only if you can bring in your own great connections and info yourself.
While we're speaking in metaphors, let me pose one as well. Imagine that the SBR is a government, and the rest of the community are it's people. Now imagine that the government has chosen to retain information regarding their discovery of UFO's. They think it's better for the people that they aren't aware of the bigger picture, and even go so far as to slander anyone who dares to speak of the possibility of the existence of UFO's. Now, what if there is a leak in information, or some undeniable proof surfaces that not only exhibits the existence of UFO's, but shows that the government was lying the entire time. Just like that, the people lose faith in the government and all order is torn asunder. Sound familiar?

This is all hypothetical, of course.

The SBR is accessible by anyone technically speaking, considering that you can write an application to get in. However they have to judge you to see how biased you are or might be, and to see how much effort you are truly willing to put into your community, which is why you see many SBR members are high ranking players in the world, or at LEAST highly respected community members and tournament organizers.
First of all, I will reiterate: All people are biased to some degree. Secondly, this is not about dissolving the BBR, or diminishing it's value at all. This is about the sharing of information, which is what the internet is all about, ironically enough.

To say that we should take it away and give it to the general public, like I said before, taints the topic. Not everyone here is mature, and not everyone here can truly understand their bias and give good information. So we allow the SBR, Moderators, Super Moderators, Senators, and Admins choose the few for us. If they are helpful, they are kept, if they aren't helpful, they are kicked out of the BR (trust me, it happens quite often).
All of the above. :(
 

SamuraiPanda

Smash Hero
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
6,924
I used to think the same way as you, honestly. Upon gaining access to the Backroom for the first time, I advocated making it read-only to the general public for quite a while. But over time, I've realized just how poor of a decision that would be.

Can you imagine thread after thread being made on the boards in response to one thing a single SBR member said? Can you imagine the amount of spam SBR members would recieve in their PMs? Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue on the boards while the SBR undertakes controversial issues like the MK ban?

Honestly, it would just cause more problems and headaches without actually being of much use to the community. In the end, we strive to provide you the information you want regarding our decisions, like vote numbers on specific stages, in order to provide as much transparency as we can without causing hell to break loose.
 

Purple

Hi guys!
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
Messages
10,383
Location
Duluth, Georgia
I used to think the same way as you, honestly. Upon gaining access to the Backroom for the first time, I advocated making it read-only to the general public for quite a while. But over time, I've realized just how poor of a decision that would be.

Can you imagine thread after thread being made on the boards in response to one thing a single SBR member said? Can you imagine the amount of spam SBR members would recieve in their PMs? Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue on the boards while the SBR undertakes controversial issues like the MK ban?

Honestly, it would just cause more problems and headaches without actually being of much use to the community. In the end, we strive to provide you the information you want regarding our decisions, like vote numbers on specific stages, in order to provide as much transparency as we can without causing hell to break loose.
This is kind of what I mean, without the idea of you guys tainting the elitist ways.

Even though in reality, that's kind of what is happening still. You might not do it, but some would.
 

SFA Smiley

The SFA King
Joined
Jan 19, 2010
Messages
2,640
Location
Virginia/Arizona
That'd be a horrible idea. Chaos would ensue

SBR: Let us discuss the pros and cons of banning MK
Random Poster: WTF MK is being banned
Random Poster on another site: You hear that? MK is being banned
Poster: WTF MK shouldn't be banned he's not that good
Other Poster: Good grief
Poster: Noob it's all about mindgaems
Other Poster: *logical argument*
Poster: Pure sk1llz

stuff like that would happen... again but times 5000 because it's coming from the SBR.

No way dude that'd suck. A person is smart but people are stupid, last thing we need are uninformed people going on about why they're right and SBR are wrong. Not saying the SBR is never wrong but i'd rather nobody know they were if so.
 

Pierce7d

Wise Hermit
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
6,289
Location
Teaneck, North Bergen County, NJ, USA
3DS FC
1993-9028-0439
Most top players that are not in the BBR are probably not there for a good reason. Poor communication, no desire, etc. A lot of them are being recruited even still. In addition to that, a lot of them are in frequent contact with BBR members and still get their opinions brought up in the BBR.

Read only threads were dismissed for previously stated reasons. It only leads to threads being created to mimic BBR threads, but with trolls and clutter. It also takes away the confidentiality, which helps us make less biased and pressured decisions.

However, I do agree that the BBR could used further interactions with the general public. Of course, at the moment we have the Public Relations thread open which can be found here. This gives you a small point of access with the BBR.

Also, often, threads are created in the backroom for initial discussion, and then created out here, for further discussion, and you simply might not realize that you're talking about something already discussed in the back room, but we read those threads, and take the public's comments into consideration. An obvious example is the Metaknight related stuff. Not so obvious is Crow!'s Tier Wars thread.

I'm also going to propose a new project where we reanalyze the characters in a very similar fashion to the way that was done at the beginning of Brawl. I hope that this will help us all to learn more about each character, and spark the boards with knowledge, giving them a push in the right direction. If it's approved, anticipate this project around the beginning of summer.
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
12,115
Location
Chicago, IL
You should make a sub-forum that's read only open to the public so that we can see past discussions but not current ones. I remember they did that with the Melee Back Room a while back.
 
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