Matchup Re-Discussion: Mario

Resources for discussion:

Current MU Ratio (subject to change after discussion): 52:48 in Pikachu's favor
Can we CG him?: No

Our Original Matchup Thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225389
Their Matchup Opinion/Thread: 50:50, http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=8463285#post8463285

Pikachu Frame Data: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=223901
Mario Frame Data: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=219407

Summary:

None yet, discussion in progress.

I agree Ussi, except for the skullbash part. If your SB gets caped, SB back towards the edge and QA to the stage. I've done it before, multiple times I'm sure. I am more worried about the QA recovery getting gimped by his super soaker. For this reason I suggest not SB'ing into the ledge, but rather most of the way, and then QA directly onto the stage. He won't gimp you if you do that.

I've only really fought Marios during friendlies, when the opponent was more or less not trying to be serious. Yes, Mario is surprisingly combo'able. Remember the basics- f-throw to u-smash and space with d-tilt. He can essentially parry your camping tactics (i.e. t-jolts) with his cape or fireballs, so he can choose to make you approach. If he doesn't spam fireballs too much, you can perfect shield his fireballs as you approach from the ground, and maybe get in a grab. Be careful approaching from the air as he's standing. His u-smash comes out surprisingly fast.
Gimping him is easy. His recovery is notoriously horrendous, unlike his brother's. I've gimped Marios with a well-timed t-jolt more than once. Lastly, when you kill with thunder, make sure to do a hopped thunder. This means to hop immediately as you thunder so in case he capes it, it won't reflect back and bite you in the butt.
Probably 55:45 our favor.
Happy Mario hunting, Pikas!

First off, mario's u-air hurts. It can juggle,and it racks up damage insanely quickly. Similarly, his b-air is also a pain. Although it isn't as good for juggling, he may use it to approach. As far as his ground game goes, he'll use U-tilt and D-throw to start some u-air combos on you, and stutter-stepped F-smash has a fairly long range and can kill. His jab and U-smash are decent but nothing too special, whilst his D-smash hits both sides quickly and sends you out at a pretty low angle. His fireballs are an okay projectile, but they shouldn't be a huge problem.

Don't forget mario's cape. Spamming T-jolts probably isn't a good idea, unless you're doing them from a platform above him. Also, if you're going to thunder, make sure it's either too quickly for him to cape, or that the bolt won't hit you should he cape it.

Edgeguarding mario is possible, but somewhat tricky, as although his recovery is somewhat limited, he can use the cape to stall for time. Mario can edgeguard you better then most other characters can thanks to his cape, but you should be able to avoid it. However, be careful recovering from below, as then our recovery loses its unpredictability, making it much easier for him to cape. Obviously, skullbashing offstage is certain death if he's anywhere near you.

So, to recap...

Stay on the ground/below him.
Be careful using T-jolts/thunder
Don't recover from below.

This matchup is definitely really good for Mario. Although I really just wish that there were more good Pikachu players...since lmao, good Pikachus are somehow less common than good Marios...even though I don't think this character is nearly as hard to use as he looks.

So yeah Mario can EDGECAMP against Pikachu, since his Cape Stalling protects him from those projectiles.

Mario can in fact F-smash out of shield if he shields D-smash. Don't spam that lol.

Most of the time however he will be looking to kill you with Up-smash since Pikachu is in the air a lot. He'll probably KO you at around 120% with that move. If he saves D-smash til about 140% it's a pretty good KO move as well that he can Jab cancel into. And yeah don't get hit by those up-angled F-smashes which can kill you at like 90% lol.

By the way, most good Mario players won't get gimped very often assuming they know how to save Cape/Double Jump, and DI. His recovery is really solid if he leaves himself the option to land onstage. If you can interrupt his jump with a N-air, that's probably the best way to edgeguard him.

imo I think most Pikachu players don't use enough tilts especially in this matchup. Pikachu's tilts have pretty good range and are quick, so don't let Mario boss you around in close range if you can help it.

At any rate I'm calling the matchup more or less dead even until further notice. Pikachu doesn't have much that really gays Mario (although he does have better tilts), and Mario does KO him a bit more easily than the other way around.

1. Who wins at zoning? What are the most useful zoning tools for both characters and what can either of them do about punishing or reducing the effectiveness of those tools?

2. Risk:reward. Which character can win exchanges more safely? How rewarding are those won exchanges (read: awarded damage and positional advantage)?

3. Stages. Which starters are in your best interest to strike? What about counterpicks? How much does the matchup change on various counterpick stages?

I had the opportunity to play against Anther in friendlies and though he might have been sandbagging, I found a couple of things difficult to handle.

1. Finishing uair combos with nair (knockback).
2. Quick tilts, namely dtilt and ftilt.
3. QAC traps.
4. Early falling fair combos.

Tjolts won't do a whole lot of good for you, tbh. We can cape, avoid, and bair them.

Bair is a solid approach for us and leads into early combos. Wavebounced spaced fireballs will piss Pikas off and leads to combos/gimps/grab games.
Pika seems especially vulnerable to utilt, uair and usmash.
Watch for our oos options. Super jump punch comes out on frame 3.

If you're facing a bad Mario, pressure game is probably your best game.
Facing a good one, be patient, work around our options and pick your spots. Chase a low recovering Mario from far out with dair or nair.

If you're going to argue that this matchup is Pikachu's favor, I would say that his tilts and slightly better shieldgrab are what would push that. Since Pikachu is a fairly small target, if he stays on the ground, he can be moderately annoying for Mario to hit. Pikachu's air approach is fine, but generally speaking you want to force Mario to approach and avoid going into his defenses, although of course, projectile spam alone isn't going to convince Mario to approach.

If you play the poke game, Pikachu wins slightly in terms of damage and I think having more range on stuff, but when it comes to combos, provided you don't do something dumb like the QAC lock, I would say Mario overall has a slightly more effective time with combos with U-tilt and U-air strings and canceling off Jab 2 into D-smash. You definitely want Mario to approach and to keep him out of close range.

Pikachu wins stages pretty obviously. Larger stages give Pikachu more room to move around and larger blastzones are preferable against Mario. If it ain't banned, go Japes against Mario since it will take him longer to kill you, and the features of the stage don't really help Mario's recovery a whole ton. I would probably avoid Brinstar and Halberd if I were you, although for Pikachu, it's pretty much going to be his preference. Mario isn't a character who gets huge benefits from any particular stage.

This match-up can go from even to 55:45 Pika's advantage. No higher or lower than that.

Mario's advantages:

• Mario can kill Pikachu earlier than Pikachu can kill Mario.
• Cape reduces the effectiveness of Thunder Jolt camping and star KOing with thunder.
• Fludd and Cape are able to hinder and/or completely nullify Pikachu's recovery
• Mario's Bair is moderately effective as a wall and combo starter.
• Mario's Jab, Ftilt, and Dsmash pose formidable threats in CQC.
• Mario can distance himself relatively safely with fireballs as long as he maintains good spacing.

Mario's disadvantages:

• Pikachu can rack damage faster than Mario
• Pikachu can gimp Mario about as well as Mario can gimp Pikachu.
• In general, Pikachu out-prioritizes Mario's aerials. This is probably the biggest issue for Mario.
• Pikachu is a faster character than Mario, which makes Mario vulnerable to heavy punishment whenever above Pikachu.
• Powershielding, coupled with Pikachu's running speed, makes fireball spacing dangerous in many circumstances.

Most of Pikachu's power in this match-up comes from generally having free reign on approach as long as he can get through fireball camping, bair walls, and Mario's CQC. OOS, Mario presents opposition with Nair and upB, but once Pikachu's on the inside, he has the overall advantage. Because of Mario's low airspeed and Pikachu's higher priority, it's easy for Mario to be harassed whenever above Pikachu. The same isn't true when Mario is grounded and Pikachu is above him.

That said, Mario offers some threat while Pikachu's recovering offstage thanks to Fludd's wacky mechanics and cape. The range on his Fsmash and Usmash allow him to score KOs at 100% and 120% respectively with relative ease if the Pikachu's approach is predictable.

Things to note:

• Mario can punish all of Pikachu's smashes OOS with a sweetspotted Fsmash. Don't hit his shield with them.
• Mario's Utilt and Bthrow become viable KO moves at around 160-170%. They are extremely easy to land.
• Mario cannot Fludd you if you recover low. However, your QA then becomes more predictable to cape if you QA onstage.
• Even if you LAND onstage during QA, Fludd will make you airborne again while remaining in a freefall state. In this time, you are vulnerable to punishment.
• Mario doesn't really have an answer for Dair besides our Usmash. It beats all of our aerials IIRC.
• After a successful Usmash or Dsmash from Pikachu, most Marios will immediately spam cape. Thunder wisely, as this will reflect the thunder if they time it correctly, but it also keeps them in the air next to the star KO blastzone.
• During Mario's recovery he has nothing to stop you from QAing to the ledge once he's exhausted his DJ and first cape.

Here are some videos of Bo X7's Mario vs Anther's Pikachu. Bo X7's one of our top Marios.
http://www.youtube.com/user/AnkokuSmash#p/u/407/ZgKuIpw_Vys
http://www.youtube.com/user/AnkokuSmash#p/u/406/6rBggd_6YpA
http://www.youtube.com/user/AnkokuSmash#p/u/405/GUnOOzqxycs

I hope this helps.