Stage Export #1 - Castle Siege ~Summary in the second Post~

#HBC | J · May 28, 2010

First stage export!

Castle Siege

Pros:
- Good Camping Stage
- Second part of the stage can be used to refresh moves
- Hibox enlarging due to statues on phase 2.
Cons:
-This Stage has very scary walkoffs
-Weird ledges on the first and third phase of the stage.
- Overall mediocre for Lucas =/ nothing really good.

Counterpicks -

(

if your J and crazy =P)

Bans - :dedede:

Rating - 5/10

Time for a stage export. We are revisiting the glorious fire emblem castle to see how we fight there again.

try and write a short summary, good characters to take there, rating, and characters not to take there.

gogogogogogogogogogogogogogogogogogo!

#HBC | J · May 28, 2010

[collapse=New Summary]

rPSI said:
Alright I guess I'll give some good input.

Phase 1:
[collapse="Phase 1 Map"]

The numbers refer to positions on stage.
[/collapse]

At the starting position, you end up on either one or two. If you are one platform one, I suggest either doing a simple drop through or run off platform PKFire. If you are one platform two, then you can choose from several options, but run off PKFire doesn't work very well due to the stage geography.

The main goal of this phase is to prevent your opponent setting up camp in section three. It has several natural barriers of protections that make is extremely hard to approach. Characters such at Snake, ROB, Link and Toon Link can make very good use of that section.
So, what to do about it? First, you don't let them take it, set up your own camp in there. Only Snake should be your real problem when dealing with camping down below, since his grenades roll down section four. Be prepared for a weakly charged gyro or laser from ROB. It shouldn't be too hard to shield the gyro after PSI Magnet because it goes much slower since it isn't fully charged. Against Link and Toon Link, you have to worry about most of his projectile spam since that all basically can go down. If you happen to shield an uncooked bomb, and he isn't approaching, then you can try to pick it up. But that doesn't do much good since it doesn't throw upward.
So what do you do if they've captured section 3? Well, approaching them will be a pain in the ***. I really don't recommend that. Instead, platform camping on section two would be advisable. Most of their projectiles can't hit a platform camper very well and Lucas has above average air mobility. You also have to remember that the stage eventually changes, so you will have a chance to get some damage on them.

Some other tips: When you are on section 4, grabbing is not advisable, Lucas grab goes with the slope, so it's range isn't where it should be and Lucas will have a hard timing actually landing the grab.
D-smashing while standing on Section 5 onto section 4 exposes even more of the hitbox of Lucas' d-smash making it harder to approach from section 3.

5.5/10

Jbandit said:
lazy butt Lucas' -_-

Alright then Phase 2:

This is a great place to refresh all your moves on the statues as Kole said. During certain MUs we can camp the opponent quite well via platform camping. Also to notice the statues extend the hitboxes on all your smashes so mindgames can be played like other stages (i.e. Brinstar, GrGs) However if you feel uncomfortable with the statues blocking and coming in between you and your opponent you can destroy the statues and refresh your moves. But it is recommended you try and keep the statues alive on this part. Now time to talk about some of the dangers, Walkoffs are such a pain in the butt here. With the people who have CGs that are walkoffs (i.e. D3, Yoshi, Falco) it is bad here because one grab could equal a lost stock or being put in a bad position. The side stage boundaries are pretty small so killing for us is a bit easier. Dtilt lock is a bit annoying with the statues. This is a good place to really do some damage via camping to like the Ice Climbers. This portion of the stage you want to be campy....very campy.

6/10

Phase 3:

This stage is like Final Desitination and Lylat Cruise combined. It is overall the worst phase for Lucas. The edges make recovery harder, the stage tilts which isn't beneficial to Lucas at all besides messing up CGs but you would not really want to take characters who have CGs due to the fact of the walk off on Phase 2. There is nothing really to say about this stage except it's not good ^^"

4/10

Overall the stage gets a 5/10. Mediocre and not the best stage for Lucas. =P[/collapse]

rPSIvysaur · May 28, 2010

I think it's good to discuss all the different phases.

Kole · May 29, 2010

Don't know much about this stage, but I'll give some input.

First stage is pretty good for us, some nice platforms.

Second stage, don't get chaingrabbed and thrown off the side. lol

Third stage is like a tilting Final Destination, nice for camping and the tilt can actually mess up chaingrabbers.

Maybr ban it against D3, I guess since he can CG during the second phase, possibly Yoshi even for the same reason.

rPSIvysaur · May 29, 2010

Alright I guess I'll give some good input.

Phase 1:
[collapse="Phase 1 Map"]

The numbers refer to positions on stage.
[/collapse]

At the starting position, you end up on either one or two. If you are one platform one, I suggest either doing a simple drop through or run off platform PKFire. If you are one platform two, then you can choose from several options, but run off PKFire doesn't work very well due to the stage geography.

The main goal of this phase is to prevent your opponent setting up camp in section three. It has several natural barriers of protections that make is extremely hard to approach. Characters such at Snake, ROB, Link and Toon Link can make very good use of that section.
So, what to do about it? First, you don't let them take it, set up your own camp in there. Only Snake should be your real problem when dealing with camping down below, since his grenades roll down section four. Be prepared for a weakly charged gyro or laser from ROB. It shouldn't be too hard to shield the gyro after PSI Magnet because it goes much slower since it isn't fully charged. Against Link and Toon Link, you have to worry about most of his projectile spam since that all basically can go down. If you happen to shield an uncooked bomb, and he isn't approaching, then you can try to pick it up. But that doesn't do much good since it doesn't throw upward.
So what do you do if they've captured section 3? Well, approaching them will be a pain in the ***. I really don't recommend that. Instead, platform camping on section two would be advisable. Most of their projectiles can't hit a platform camper very well and Lucas has above average air mobility. You also have to remember that the stage eventually changes, so you will have a chance to get some damage on them.

Some other tips: When you are on section 4, grabbing is not advisable, Lucas grab goes with the slope, so it's range isn't where it should be and Lucas will have a hard timing actually landing the grab.
D-smashing while standing on Section 5 onto section 4 exposes even more of the hitbox of Lucas' d-smash making it harder to approach from section 3.

Kole · May 29, 2010

Wow rPSI with that legit contribution

#HBC | J · Jun 1, 2010

been quiet in this thread.

Okay the first phase discussion is still going on so...

The first phase is a pretty good stage for us since we can camp if we acquire the right position. Me, I like position 3 (referring to rPSI's awesome breakdown). It is pretty nice the camp from there. I also like position 2 and it seems if I start out there I stay due to the fact of it being pretty nice for platform camping as said by rPSI. Also I would like to note the offstage game here. Considering boundary terms it is not half bad. This entire stage has kindof bigger then they seem boundaries (except the first phase which is tiny compared to the others).

I like CPing ICs here because we can platform camp them on stages 1/2 easier then some plus on phase 2 more run away time. However I dislike phase 3 for them since it is like FD but the tilting does make it a little harder. Also banning against Yoshi/D3 is a good idea because the walkoff is annoying on Phase 2 plus during the stage change they can get a walkoff or put you in an awkward position offstage.

Ill input more when others do as well, but let's stick to talking about phase 1 atm. =P

Also just throwing it out there how would this stage be for teams? I'd say phase 2 and 3 are good but phase 1 is small so it is hard to camp and find times to heal. I guess it really depends on who you're teaming with.

#HBC | J · Jun 2, 2010

Phase 2 discussion may start now.

Please more people post. Not enough input but the input given has been good so far (me, proxy, rPSI)

Kole · Jun 2, 2010

Oh we were doing separate discussions for the phases? whoops lol. (Call me Kole, by the way)

Something to add to the second one: PKF does some weird things with the statues. Also, you can dtilt the statues repeatedly to refresh your moves (expect dtilt xD)

#HBC | J · Jun 23, 2010

lazy butt Lucas' -_-

Alright then Phase 2:

This is a great place to refresh all your moves on the statues as Kole said. During certain MUs we can camp the opponent quite well via platform camping. Also to notice the statues extend the hitboxes on all your smashes so mindgames can be played like other stages (i.e. Brinstar, GrGs) However if you feel uncomfortable with the statues blocking and coming in between you and your opponent you can destroy the statues and refresh your moves. But it is recommended you try and keep the statues alive on this part. Now time to talk about some of the dangers, Walkoffs are such a pain in the butt here. With the people who have CGs that are walkoffs (i.e. D3, Yoshi, Falco) it is bad here because one grab could equal a lost stock or being put in a bad position. The side stage boundaries are pretty small so killing for us is a bit easier. Dtilt lock is a bit annoying with the statues. This is a good place to really do some damage via camping to like the Ice Climbers. This portion of the stage you want to be campy....very campy.

And ill be posting on the third phase by friday if nothing else is posted.

Also sorry for the small post i just can't think of anything more atm. ">_>

Kole · Jun 23, 2010

HEY GUYS GET IN HERE AND CONTRIBUTE

thanks

Chuee · Jun 23, 2010

Don't get grabbed on the second part.
/Contribution

#HBC | J · Jun 23, 2010

-deleted because I changed my mind-

Tokaio · Jun 23, 2010

Wait, why would you want to keep the statues alive? I would think that it'd be better to take them down, considering that they block PK Fire.

#HBC | J · Jun 23, 2010

Hitboxes are increased, Refreshing moves, PKF still has the splash effect, Platform camping.

Uhm those are just my reasons but with the statues i'd go with however you would feel most comfortable with. I prefer to keep them for reasons of my own.

Tokaio · Jun 23, 2010

Ohh right...sorry I forgot that the statues hold up the platforms. =x

#HBC | J · Jun 23, 2010

lol it's no prob at all. Ask all your questions you want. ;D

Plus if you feel like you want to add anything to the discussion please do Tokaio AND anyone else.

Edit: sorry for being a bit mean to ya Chuee ;_; i just want legit contributions so we can actually move foward.

Bomboleriot · Jun 23, 2010

Statue + PK Fire = win, you can camp on the right side by abusing projectiles/aerials to space properly. Basically, every approximative approaches could be easily punished by some PKT/PKF/Fair/Uair.

That's all i can do about it

Chuee · Jun 23, 2010

Don't get grabbed on the second part.
Some characters can take away your stock from a grab on here.
/2 line contribution

#HBC | J · Jun 23, 2010

I also noticed something that Kole and I saw on CS that if you are hit and are going to the statues (either one) if you Nair you can slow down to stop the momentum of you flying. I tested this out more and it seems like it actually might work.

Thanks for the contribute Bomboleriot ^_^

Edit: actually ill take back what I said about Chuee's contribution. Any contribution is good I guess =P

#HBC | J · Jun 25, 2010

Okay time to start phase 3 of Castle siege. If no one posts here ill edit this post with my input on this Final Destination like Segment.

Bomboleriot · Jun 25, 2010

It's a FD with the same property as the upper platform of YI brawl D:
/useful contribution

Tokaio · Jun 25, 2010

Lylat Cruise with no platforms = BAD

Also, just general info on Castle Siege. You guys probably already know this, but each phase takes ~40 seconds. After that, the floor breaks, and this transition into the next phase takes ~4.5 seconds. Dunno if that's useful or not lol.

rPSIvysaur · Jun 25, 2010

Stage slanting can mess up certain CG's, but more than likely, you're not going to want to take a CGer there with the walk-offs.

It's has interesting terrain, but it's not very useful to Lucas and the tilting messes up ACing. There's not much to say about this one except that it's not very good.

Chuee · Jun 25, 2010

Oh, and on the second phase, if you fully charge an Usmash on the pillars it not only extends the hurtbox but also makes it to where the last part of it is sort of invisible.
So your opponent will run into it :D

Mekos · Jul 4, 2010

On phase 2 I just run away. There are way too many characters that can easily kill us at the bottom or at the sides on the top.

I run by zap jumping lol and jumping around after that.

~Nasty~ · Jul 4, 2010

Yes, running away on the second transformation is exactly what you need to do. If you get cornered at the bottom left or right, just zap jump up to the higher platforms for safety. That's exactly what i do too Mekos.

Oh and btw, glad to see you bought a premium membership and changed your name so ppl know who you are, lol (I was thinking about doing the same thing and changing mine to Nasty)... and about that "Lucas Master".... nice. haha.

Mekos · Jul 5, 2010

Haha Thanks Nasty. My boy RocketPSience hooked me up with the membership. We both in NC so we cool peoples.
Yeah too many people were asking if I was Mekos...So changing the name helped haha.

Nasty you going to MLG Raleigh?

Kole · Jul 5, 2010

Wish I could buy premium and change my name to Kole lol

Ontopic: So what, do we give a ration for this stage or something?

~Nasty~ · Jul 6, 2010

Mekos said:
Haha Thanks Nasty. My boy RocketPSience hooked me up with the membership. We both in NC so we cool peoples.
Yeah too many people were asking if I was Mekos...So changing the name helped haha.

Nasty you going to MLG Raleigh?

I'm gonna go ahead and move this discussion into the general discussion now and i'll answer you there.

Jelley · Jul 6, 2010

I hate the first phase of the stage because of the ledges. When you are offstage and lost your jump and if you are right by the wall you can't recover because the floor of the stage extends farther than the wall of the stage. You won't recover because you will have to use Pk thunder and launch yourself up and you will get rejected because of the extended ledge. To avoid that you must move away from the stage and then launch yourself to the stage, but when you move away from the stage you are only then farther away from the edge because you descended in the proccess. Meaning your opponent can probably edgehog you by then because it takes like a full second to launch yourself with Pk thunder, and the additional second because of moving away from the wall.

Idk, but I personally have problems with the edge in this stage with Lucas. Always screwed when right beside the wall.

#HBC | J · Jul 13, 2010

Well seems we have gotten all we can out of this stage.

I'd say this stage is a total of something like this imo.

First phase - 5/10 (camping however edges are gay and we can be out camped here by certain characters)
Second phase - 7/10 (This phase is our best phase however because of walkoffs this stage can be very silly to us)
Third phase - 4/10 (not a very good stage at all really for us. FD that tilts. Edges are mean ;-

So overall i believe this stage is a 5/10 not too good but not horrid either.

I'd cp Ice Climbers here and ban against D3 and Yoshi.

rPSIvysaur · Jul 13, 2010

I wouldn't give the second phase a 7/10.

Tokaio · Jul 13, 2010

I don't think first phase is that bad for us. There's nothing there that gives us a disadvantage other than maybe the ledge on the left side. It's the best phase for us imo.
First Phase: 7
Second Phase: 5
Third Phase: 5/4

#HBC | J · Jul 13, 2010

I just prefer the second part alot more myself ;o

Come on put a ratio people then ill try and see what it is in the end. Also don't forget who you would cp/ban against on this stage. ;D

#HBC | J · Jul 17, 2010

Bumping this for the last time:

In the end the stage is gonna be this:

5/10 (maybe 6/10)
6/10
4/10

Overall a 5/10. Anyone else think otherwise please speak up. Or ill get to work on a summary.

Also cping Ice Climbers here and banning against D3, Yoshi, Falco(?)

rPSIvysaur · Jul 17, 2010

I would not CP Ice Climbers here.

#HBC | J · Jul 17, 2010

who wouuld you cp here rPSI? ^_^

I myself just like fighting ICs here. They actually don't do pretty well here and i just feel comfortable fighting them here.

someone better god dang input. I want this to end. >_<

Kole · Jul 17, 2010

first stage: 6/10
second stage: 6/10
third stage: 4/10

IMO

rPSIvysaur · Jul 17, 2010

Maybe MK or Kirby. It really depends on how my Match 1 goes.

Stage Export #1 - Castle Siege ~Summary in the second Post~

Prince of DGamesia

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