SmashCAP 3: Stat Distribution Discussion

Terywj [태리] · Jun 9, 2010

[SmashCAP 3]
Start date: 5/15/10
End date: --/--/--
Concept: The Zook Concept
Concept Assessment - More-or-less a sweeper-esque Pokemon, who can handle Blissey. Or at least be able to work around typical special sponges. Someone already suggested part Fighting-type to get STAB on Vacuum Wave to get around things, so you can further on that idea or come up with something new.

Type: Normal / ???

Writer said:
Special Note: The ability, whatever it's named, will function like a Trace for typing. Upon switching in, its secondary type will become that of the opposing Pokemon's primary type. In the event that it tries to copy a Pokemon of the primary Normal type, it gains no secondary typing and this ability functions in the same way as Adaptability. This activates just after switching in, so Stealth Rock damage is a constant neutral no matter what the secondary type becomes. Also, because there are no primary Flying-types outside of Arceus, it should be noted that this Pokemon will never become Normal/Flying when used outside of Ubers.

-----
Artwork is being worked on, so in the meantime we can design stat spreads we would like to see for SmashCAP 3. Please keep in mind the following:

We are NOT making Zook Uber, which means I don't want posts liike "I propose 122 / 122 / 122 / 122 / 122 / 122 because Zook is amazing." because that does not keep us focused and we're trying to make spreads suitable for the concept.

Your submissions need SUBSTANCE. Posting a set of six numbers is not enough. If you do not have your reasoning behind your submission it will not be counted.

All global forum rules still apply.

kirbyraeg · Jun 9, 2010

HP:95
Atk:95
Def:85
SpAtk:110
SpDef:85
Spe:110

110 Spe is probably the highest speed mark that a solid sweeper needs to hit, but his ability gives him a unique opportunity to become exceptionally bulky if the need arises. This puts him at 580 BST, similar to a lot of other legendaries, and it doesn't leave him overpowered offensively but does give him the ability to sweep with mixed attacking stats. 95 is low, but he is intended to be a sweeper that is also capable of handling Blissey, and with a nice physical movepool including Superpower Blissey would be adequately handled by this, aided by his high speed. Think a more toned-down Deoxys, with its type-tracing ability giving it the chance to play to different roles as well as boosting its own offense.

Riddle · Jun 9, 2010

I think that thing is too well-rounded tbh. That will end up being almost too versatile, especially with the ability.

Terywj [태리] · Jun 9, 2010

kirbyraeg said:
HP:95
Atk:95
Def:85
SpAtk:110
SpDef:85
Spe:110

110 Spe is probably the highest speed mark that a solid sweeper needs to hit, but his ability gives him a unique opportunity to become exceptionally bulky if the need arises. This puts him at 580 BST, similar to a lot of other legendaries, and it doesn't leave him overpowered offensively but does give him the ability to sweep with mixed attacking stats. 95 is low, but he is intended to be a sweeper that is also capable of handling Blissey, and with a nice physical movepool including Superpower Blissey would be adequately handled by this, aided by his high speed. Think a more toned-down Deoxys, with its type-tracing ability giving it the chance to play to different roles as well as boosting its own offense.

This arises the same problem of being able to fill out too many niches at once. I'd say focus more heavily on the special attack bias.

For example something like - 85 / 65 / 75 / 120 / 100 / 110

mood4food77 · Jun 9, 2010

100/100/100/100/100/100

It's straightforward. Zook is a legendary and already has the uniqueness factor in being able to change his 2nd type based on the opposing pokemon. He has to be versatile so what better way to give him base 100 across the board. It's good enough so that he can do whatever but it's not too good that deem him to be broken. It's going to be versatile as hell so why not give him a stat spread that will allow him to use any set without limitations

Terywj [태리] · Jun 9, 2010

mood4food77 said:
100/100/100/100/100/100

It's straightforward. Zook is a legendary and already has the uniqueness factor in being able to change his 2nd type based on the opposing pokemon. He has to be versatile so what better way to give him base 100 across the board. It's good enough so that he can do whatever but it's not too good that deem him to be broken. It's going to be versatile as hell so why not give him a stat spread that will allow him to use any set without limitations

I had thought of this earlier, and wouldn't we want to gear this SmashCAP into doing something well, extremely well? Sure we now have a strong SmashCAP 3 but will that help it do what it really needs to do?

Wave⁂ · Jun 9, 2010

101 / 101 / 101 / 101 / 101 / 101

So you don't speed tie with Jirachi.

mood4food77 · Jun 9, 2010

we want versatility with optimal stats

base 100 across the board allows it to be both bulky and offensive while having optimal stats

i think Zook should have a BTS of 600 though (as 580 is saved for the legendary trios)

Wave⁂ · Jun 9, 2010

NO

111 across the board, BST of 666.

Terywj [태리] · Jun 10, 2010

I'm working on my own idea, so we'll see how this pans out with M4F's and Kirbyraeg's submissinos.

UltiMario · Jun 10, 2010

I say something like this would be suiting.

HP:100
Atk:55
Def:60
SpA:140
SpD:90
Spe:70
Total: 515

Base 100 HP to Sub up 101 HP Substitutes. Attack is low and Defense is low, it doesn't need attack and Physical Priority will beat it, but not under a Sub! 140 SpA assures that it can handle Blissey, and makes it a threatening Sweeper with it. 90 SpD allows it to survive special hits under a sub and increase the chances you'll survive two hits under a Sub from things such as... well... Blissey. 70Spe outspeeds Vaporeon, the slowest Special Wall in OU that I can outspeed keeping reasonable stats.

Pretty much, I designed it around being on special offense and breaking Blissey.

Wave⁂ · Jun 10, 2010

100 / 80 / 84 / 130 / 84 / 117

100 HP - For 101 Substitutes
80 Attack - To OHKO Blissey with STAB Explosion with no EVs and a -nature.
84 Defense
135 Special Attack - STAB Normal sucks, since Tri Attack sucks. Also Normal sucks. Also OHKOs Lucario with STAB Vacuum Wave with Modest nature and Life Orb.
84 Special Defense
117 Speed - Faster than Jolly Scarf Tyranitar with a neutral nature.

Base Stat Total - 600

(Not my final submission)

mood4food77 · Jun 11, 2010

just wondering, is zook going to be a legendary?

cause if it is, then we limit ourselves because Zook has to have a BST of 600

720 is god
680 is weather changers
670 are uber legendaries
600 (the 100s across the board) are event legendaries
600 (the other group) are sidequest legendaries
580 are the legendary trios

so are we making Zook a non-uber legendary?

Wave⁂ · Jun 11, 2010

How about no one gives a **** about BST because of Scizor, Dugtrio, Articuno, and Entei.

Terywj [태리] · Jun 11, 2010

Wave+ said:
How about no one gives a **** about BST because of Scizor, Dugtrio, Articuno, and Entei.

This. Although I would prefer nothing over 600. Even better if lower.

E123-omega · Jun 11, 2010

Disregard this post, sorry

mood4food77 · Jun 12, 2010

but you still gotta go with the rules of pokemon when doing CAP

Wave⁂ · Jun 12, 2010

100 / 80 / 84 / 130 / 84 / 117

100 HP - For 101 Substitutes.
55 Attack - To OHKO Blissey with STAB Explosion with no EVs and a -Attack nature.
65 Defense
135 Special Attack - STAB Normal sucks, since Tri Attack sucks. Also Normal sucks. Also OHKOs Lucario with STAB Vacuum Wave with Modest nature and Life Orb.
65 Special Defense
117 Speed - Faster than Jolly Scarf Tyranitar with a neutral nature.

Base Stat Total - 537

It occurred to me that giving this Pokémon high defenses makes it similar to Garchomp in that it can hit very hard and still take neutral attacks fairly well. Also reduced its Attack stat because I forgot to factor in pseudo-Adaptibility.

(My final submission)

Terywj [태리] · Jun 12, 2010

Here's my final submission:

110 / 60 / 60 / 132 / 110 / 118
The bulky HP stat allows for decent walling with 60 / 110 defenses, and since most of the metagame is physical this prevents any Garchomp-esque traits. It also gives 101 Substitutes. Attack is mediocre as SmashCAP 3 is designed to be a special attacker to trump Blissey, hence the gargantuan base 132 Special Attack. The magical properties of his ability grants a decent Special Defense, while base 118 Speed is fast enough to outspeed most Scarfed threats.

Terywj [태리] · Jun 13, 2010

Final submissions are due on Tuesday @ 7:30 PM Eastern

Unless everyone is set with their current submissions. We could get the poll up immediately.

Cease Tick · Jun 13, 2010

Terywj said:
Here's my final submission:

110 / 60 / 60 / 132 / 110 / 118
The bulky HP stat allows for decent walling with 60 / 110 defenses, and since most of the metagame is physical this prevents any Garchomp-esque traits. It also gives 101 Substitutes. Attack is mediocre as SmashCAP 3 is designed to be a special attacker to trump Blissey, hence the gargantuan base 132 Special Attack. The magical properties of his ability grants a decent Special Defense, while base 118 Speed is fast enough to outspeed most Scarfed threats.

Hey look, it's Latios!

Terywj [태리] · Jun 13, 2010

Cease Tick said:
Hey look, it's Latios!

Except slightly bulkier, faster, and has a more awesome ability.
I didn't realize how similar their spreads were...

Bowser_Gangsta · Jun 13, 2010

My final submission:

100 / 50 / 50 / 130 / 95 / 117
BST: 543

The HP is for, of course, 101 Subs. The Sp. A and Speed are just there to do its job correctly. I made the Attack and Defense mediocre because with some of the spreads above this thing look like it would be moved to Ubers in a second. A good ability, High Sp.A and speed, and passable defenses? Meh. It can take some special hits though. This thing will fear STAB priority (especially from a certain CB Scizor..) but under a Sub and whatever moveset we give it, decimate the competition. Even Blissey will fear its huge special attack. Outspeeds Gengar and ScarfTar.

Terywj [태리] · Jun 14, 2010

So is everyone set with their submissions?

-.-

Wave⁂ · Jun 14, 2010

They're basically all the same, some with a little more or less special defense.

Terywj [태리] · Jun 14, 2010

So should we bother having the extra submissions? I can remove mine.

Wave⁂ · Jun 14, 2010

We could average the special attack, speed, defense, and attack stats suggested. 100 HP is on I think all but one submission. Then I guess we vote on special defense.

UltiMario · Jun 14, 2010

Wave+ said:
We could average the special attack, speed, defense, and attack stats suggested. 100 HP is on I think all but one submission. Then I guess we vote on special defense.

Why don't we just vote like normal?

Averaging stats isn't that... perfect seeing as I have things like 70 Spe as compared to Tery's 118, or my SpA being a whopping 140 over the lower 110 or 100.

I say we just have 2-3 polls to narrow down the stats and choose one we like, and then do any tweaks to it in necessary.

Terywj [태리] · Jun 14, 2010

Alright. Can someone pile up all the submissions and support posts for the poll please?

I'll be back to check within the hour hopefully. AP Psych work is no fun.

UltiMario · Jun 15, 2010

Obviously no one else is going to so I will.

Terywj [태리] · Jun 15, 2010

UltiMario said:
Obviously no one else is going to so I will.

Thanks, Ulti.

And I thought I asked to remove my submission but I guess not, haha.

UltiMario · Jun 15, 2010

If it had a spread and a paragraph attached to it I included it.

Terywj [태리] · Jun 15, 2010

UltiMario said:
If it had a spread and a paragraph attached to it I included it.

Right.
Oh well. It won't matter. I'm no good with stat spreads anyways.

UltiMario · Jun 21, 2010

While my 100/55/60/140/90/70 is the chosen base, we've noticed it needs some tweaks, if anything, it's a bit... underpowered...

Its current BST is 515, which is reasonably low. I'll allow people to discuss buffs it may need to a maximum of increasing the BST to 535, anything between these two numbers is fair game. If it decided that in the end we don't actually NEED to go and tweak it, that is fine too.

Terywj [태리] · Jun 21, 2010

100/55/65/140/90/85

Tiny bits of defense, with more speed?

UltiMario · Jun 21, 2010

I'm thinking 80 Speed. It puts us just over Neutral Speed base 90s (Lucario being the prime concern), and makes us just out of NonScarfTran's reach, and we don't need any more than that. It feels odd giving it a decent Defense stat of 70 (especially with 100 HP backing it up, this thing is supposed to be defensively frail). I suggest 100/55/65/140/90/80 with a BST 530.

Lets see if anyone can make this spread even better, though.

Terywj [태리] · Jun 21, 2010

So essentially 100/55/70/140/90/80

UltiMario · Jun 21, 2010

I'm not a fan of 70 defense, for some reason 100/65 feels frail but 100/70 feels bulky enough to take hits it really shouldn't be able to.

Terywj [태리] · Jun 22, 2010

Regardless, with the Counters Discussion, we brought up how if its movepool is boss the base 70 Speed should be left untouched.

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