Match-Up Rediscussion: Captain Falcon

Meru. · Jun 13, 2010

After this one, I'll probably also make re-rediscussions of higher tiers, maybe even one higher and one lower tier character at the same time.

So let's re-rediscuss ;D. But first, tha rules (copyright of Rickerdy-doo-da-day):

Rickerdy-doo-da-day said:
As the number of characters left to discuss in the Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion thread begins to dwindle, I've have decided to start up topics for rediscussing characters who I feel may need to be covered again. This is primarily due to potential changes in the match up, new discoveries, new tactics and how they may have affected the match up. Also, for some characters, because they were discussed a long time ago, they may be out of date

Now because I can't trust some of you on this board, I'm going to copy/paste these rules on all of these rediscussion threads:

-SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS WITH EXAMPLES/EVIDENCE/THOUGHT/VIDEO. Do not say "Snake beats Peach" or "Peach owns Wolf" or something out of the blue without explaining why, you are just wasting thread space. Keep intelligent discussion.

-We are here to learn, not fight. We're all trying to become better Peach players, so please don't get into over heated discussions - learn and be reasonable.

-This thread serves two purposes. A) To determine how the matchup goes for Peach. B) To determine how to handle the matchup. So not only post why you think it goes (see guideline below), but post strategies and what you do that works.

-Feel free to add really good tactics you discover of a character already discussed. New tactics are helpful and don't think just because its already been discussed not to add anything, or we will never get better information on the matchup as the meta game progresses!

- PLEASE let me know if you want me to highlight anything from the thread discussion into that respective character's "summary" on this page. I'm not always sure whats the best advice and whats not so help point it out to me for me to highlight

- Attempting to ridicule someone to prove your point will not be tolerated. It disgusts me when people try to do this. If someone struggles with something and you don't or if someone thinks the match up is such and such because of this and you think 'well you can do this and this, why are they saying that?' for the love of god, explain to them your viewpoint. Insults such as 'well your air game must suck if you find this hard' are pathetic, childish and I will mostly likely disregard whatever else you have to say

I wish I didn't have to feel the need to do this as it clusters up the OP of each of these topics and someones going to have a cry about me putting this but sadly, I can't trust some of you. I don't care about personal feuds or the like. Keep the discussion match up related ok?

Captain Falcon

Show me ya moves! ~~This pic is horrible btw...~~

Silly Kyle · Jun 13, 2010

Lol, Falcon is totes ez! I fight one all the time (granted... he's not the best Falcon, but at least it's experience!)

Razmakazi · Jun 13, 2010

hmm, expect a lot of uair, a lot of running away w/ bair. just camp him really hard and space fair and dair. if you don't approach then he doesn't win.

oh yea, and we have like a 4dthrow cg on him right?

C.S. Dinah · Jun 14, 2010

lol Captain Falcon.

Rickerdy-doo-da-day · Jun 14, 2010

Bair beats pretty much everything he throws at you. You can go agressive if you really want to in this match up but...why put yourself at any more risk than you have to?

Seriously, just keep him away with Bair and Turnips. Throw the odd Fair in to kill him and Dair if he's bad with DI...avoid Uair/Bair

Erm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyl2xPvnewM#t=01m49s

TheBlossomingLily · Jun 14, 2010

It's because Falcon always asks for us to show our moves that he gets *****. <3

Silly Kyle said:
Lol, Falcon is totes ez! I fight one all the time (granted... he's not the best Falcon, but at least it's experience!)

TommyDerMeister?

lordhelmet · Jun 14, 2010

Peach is a *****.

Peach's dair > our uair, her bair shuts down most of our approaches (granted the Falcon is dumb and isn't using sliding shield approaches).

She's got a reliable combo game to get us from 0-40, after that there's not much she can do until we get to 120%. I can type more later but I'm too lazy.

4-6 or 35-65 Peach

Rickerdy-doo-da-day · Jun 14, 2010

Peach has a massive advantage over the sliding shield tactic in that she can hover about with her Float, making it very difficult to actually get a sucessful sliding shield to get you in grab range. By all means use it because you could catch her out if she's nearing the end of her Float or if she's Sh'ing Fairs all over the place but just be wary of her Float, the last thing Falcon wants to do is run up to her and offer her his shield

And I was always under the impression that when it was spaced, Falcon's Uair beat out Peach's Dair? Unless I'm missing something here :x

lordhelmet · Jun 14, 2010

Rickerdy-doo-da-day said:
Peach has a massive advantage over the sliding shield tactic in that she can hover about with her Float, making it very difficult to actually get a sucessful sliding shield to get you in grab range. By all means use it because you could catch her out if she's nearing the end of her Float or if she's Sh'ing Fairs all over the place but just be wary of her Float, the last thing Falcon wants to do is run up to her and offer her his shield

And I was always under the impression that when it was spaced, Falcon's Uair beat out Peach's Dair? Unless I'm missing something here :x

I don't think our uair beats your dair if we're under you. Uair comes out twice as fast as your dair so we have frame advantage in that aspect.

You don't necessarily have to get in grab range for the sliding shield approach to be "successful". Either way it gets us in your bad zone. Your fair is slower than scrotum and IIRC uair will beat out Peach's dair when you're in front of her at that angle, but that's just theory-crafting so someone will want to test that :S

Rickerdy-doo-da-day · Jun 14, 2010

lordhelmet said:
You don't necessarily have to get in grab range for the sliding shield approach to be "successful". Either way it gets us in your bad zone. Your fair is slower than scrotum and IIRC uair will beat out Peach's dair when you're in front of her at that angle, but that's just theory-crafting so someone will want to test that :S

That's an...interesting comparison O.o

Peach is not going to be using Fair when Falcon (or anyone for that matter) is right up in her face, most Peach's will instinctivly Jab or if they've got a Turnip, reverse Glide toss away to get some more space. If she's using any aerial, it shouldn't be Fair because like you said its slow and Falcon has fast move speed. Bair is her best bet because of its range and priority over Falcon's aerials/general moveset

I'm not sure what you mean by bad zone. This is imo the problem Falcon has vs Peach, she can camp him with Turnips and spaced aerials and once he gets close to her via whatever tactic (sliding shield for example), what exactly does he do apart from Jab and Grab shenanigan her? Doesn't her Jab outspeed his? By 1 frame granted which isn't much...

If Falcon had something like MK's Up + B OoS then the sliding shield from Falcon would be extremely dangerous for Peach but...well tbh, he hasn't got a great deal of moves he can use OoS if Peach spaces away her Bair/Dair out of OoS Uair's range and Jabs him afterwards

I just feel Falcon has a lot of problems vs Peach because her moves beat his in almost every respect and we haven't even talked about recovery yet

teluoborg · Jun 15, 2010

Offstage game is just awkward for both characters. Peach's best bet to gimp Falcon is to throw turnips then edgehog, or edgeguard with Dair/Nair (which can both be beaten by Falcon Dive if I remember).
On the other hand Falcon can't do much to gimp Peach, all he can do is Utilt if you don't try to sweetspot your up B.

Also be wary that if you try to float Falcon can use Ftilt, Utilt, dash attack or Raptor boost.

Your Dthrow CG won't work if Falcon knows how you get out of it (holding towards and jumping to footstool), but you can follow with a Ftilt.

And yes, Falcon's OOS options suck, but the lack of disjoint in Peach's moves makes shield grabbing her very likely to happen. Also be ready for Nair and Uair OOS.

Clearly this is an easy matchup for Peach, just don't try anything funny.
6-4

Meru. · Jun 15, 2010

The Falcons are gonna hate me, but to be honest, I think everyone is being way too nice for Falcon with the ratios and discussions. Imo this this match-up is simply horrible.

Almost everything Peach does wrecks Falcon. Peach can go agressive, as Falcon has a hard time against her pressure. His weight and fall speed are juggletastic and none of his moves are scary enough to get Peach away easily. A more defensive or campy Peach however, can force Falcon to approach and she stops his approaches with little difficulty. Pretty much everything she does gives him huge problems.

Of course, that doesn't mean that the Peach player wins this match with his/her eyes closed, as Falcon does have some answers here and there. The moves Peach wants to avoid most of the time are Uair, jab and Utilt. Uair has quite some range, is pretty fast and is a good juggle options, thus Falcons naturally like this move. Fortunately, Dair (and sometimes even Nair) can beat it, but it's still a hassle. Just like Peach, Falcons like to mindgame with the jab, so avoid it and be aware of Jab > Grab (Nair can beat it, but dont get baited into a shieldgrab!). Utilt can stop float approaches well, so don't be too float-happy.

teluoborg said:
And yes, Falcon's OOS options suck, but the lack of disjoint in Peach's moves makes shield grabbing her very likely to happen. Also be ready for Nair and Uair OOS.

Not at all. Not only does Peach have great range on her aerials, they have a good advantage on shield too and can be followed up with a jab, which also has surpreme range and it's fast. Adding all that to the fact that Falcon's grab range sucks, Peach doesn't have to worry about getting shield grabbed at all.

teluoborg · Jun 15, 2010

Range is something, disjoint is something else.
It's possible to shieldgrab a move with good range if it's not disjointed.
But yeah AC Fair and Bair are pretty much safe on shield as long as you don't get predicted.

Also you shouldn't be that afraid of Utilt, it's slow and shouldn't hit you once you know its range (unless you screwed up or got predicted).
You should be more wary about Ftilt (angled upward) and dash attack.

Peach/Falcon is definetely not horrible for Falcon.
I mean, horrible is MK or Olimar.
Peach is hard but nowhere near the "never win" you make it look like.

RESET Vao · Jun 15, 2010

I don't know what I'm talking about, but I do know Peach can cancel pretty much everything he does with Turnips. I find that useful when fighting Captain Falcon.

Flat Stages too, he's 2pro with ledges.

SolarChimecho · Jun 15, 2010

Isn't Falcon's uptilt another move that Peach should be careful about?

Darky-Sama · Jun 15, 2010

Peach demolishes Falcon. She's easily one of Falcon's worst match-ups. Judging that the Peach knows how to time her follow ups, she can easily deal a 55%+ move string on Falcon from 0% that's almost completely inescapable, unless the player has godly DI potential, but even then, Peach could punish him.

30:70 or 35:65 in Peach's favor, hands down.

This is one match-up that, although manageable for Falcon, places him in a position where his normal defensive and offensive options are almost entirely limited. His options for spacing are decent, but still entirely inadequate to Peachs'. If Falcon wants to get anywhere in this match-up, he has to rely almost entirely on his ranged options such as Uair, Utilt, Downsmash, Stutterstep Fsmashes, ect. Even then, Peach can make it difficult.

Match-Up Rediscussion: Captain Falcon

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