Matchup Thread Export: Ice Climbers

Today · Jun 30, 2010

Ice Climbers

Discuss!

Today · Jun 30, 2010

Okay, here it is since people asked for it. Sorry, I've been updating some things so it took a day to get up but it's here.

Anyhow, I'll start off from my experience.
I think this is at least 40:60 Icies favor.
I feel as if it isn't that bad.
Best move in this matchup is probably dtilt.
Most of the time if you are standing there, or getting back or landing on stage that is away from Icies they will run up to you. Just dtilt. One of them ALWAYS get hit. They will try and powershield it but one of them always seems to get hit. And probably the first few times they won't even notice and both gets hit. Bair is a good way of separating them, too. You will really need to space bairs well.
I usually go after Popo when I separate them which works most of the time because Popo's focus is to get back to Nana. I also like to keep Nana in the air with uair if I have to or if I so happened to be below her.
Dtilt is probably your best move, though. It's a way of separating them and a way of avoiding getting grabbed. Best bet is probably a stage like Battlefield. FD this matchup is obviously a lot harder.
Another note is their uair beats our dair. So don't try and go for it. I think utilt also beats dair. Uhm! If you are on the platform do expect to be uair usually. Try and just get away. And come down with spaced dairs.
Another thing is I LOOOOVE the ledges. Uhm! You can uair icies b attack if they so happen to do it. Sometimes they usually just approach on the stage towards the ledge using down b. You can upb out and get a dair hit. Or if they just so happen to approach you can bair wall/bait while going on the ledge. Which is something I love to do in generally. If they come back after dying, go on the ledge so you won't get grabbed. Most of the time they try and go for you. You can just bair them and go back to the ledge.
Uhm! I think that is everything. If not I'll post some more things. I also have videos which I'll upload.

Mr.Jake and Skate · Jun 30, 2010

Halberd is a good stage to take them on in my opinion it messes up their CG and you can plank them and Dtilt them alot.

PentaSalia · Jun 30, 2010

I'll have my input on this tomorrow(even tho im kinda meh at it=l)

PGN(Vinnie) has alot of IC's experience tho so this is what he said(since he was banned and too lazy to put it in paragraph form<,<)

vcannino93 10:16 pm
(10:16:30 PM): lol
(10:16:33 PM): 35:65
(10:16:42 PM): they can grab bair at any spacing
(10:16:47 PM): bair is only safe offstage
(10:16:55 PM): abuse nana
vcannino93 10:17 pm
(10:17:05 PM): dtilt on platforms is good
(10:17:13 PM): gimp their up b with fairing popo
(10:17:17 PM): i think bair might work too
(10:17:19 PM): into the stage
Nibilim 10:17 pm
(10:17:28 PM): isnt it good to like
vcannino93 10:17 pm
(10:17:31 PM): and just dtilt their side b recovery if you see it coming
Nibilim 10:17 pm
(10:17:32 PM): uair when they recover too
vcannino93 10:17 pm
(10:17:35 PM): no
(10:17:36 PM): well
(10:17:37 PM): at least
Nibilim 10:17 pm
(10:17:37 PM): WHHHYYY
(10:17:38 PM): its good
vcannino93 10:17 pm
(10:17:39 PM): i don't do it
(10:17:48 PM): it doesn't affect their up b iirc
(10:17:53 PM): since its tether
Nibilim 10:18 pm
(10:18:05 PM): i mean their sideb
vcannino93 10:18 pm
(10:18:16 PM): dtilt hits them away at a horizontal angle
(10:18:19 PM): which they dont want
(10:18:24 PM): and they have to aerial to synch back
(10:18:26 PM): to recover again
(10:18:41 PM): also popo has a 0-~45
(10:18:42 PM): but
(10:18:47 PM): if popo is CGing you
(10:18:53 PM): you can mash out b/c he has no guaranteed pass to nana
vcannino93 10:19 pm
(10:19:09 PM): cnp alllllllllllll of this into the thread
Nibilim 10:19 pm
(10:19:32 PM): blah
(10:19:47 PM): cant u summarize it in a paragraph
(10:19:50 PM): lol
vcannino93 10:19 pm
(10:19:50 PM): no
Nibilim 10:19 pm
(10:19:53 PM): WHHHYYY
vcannino93 10:20 pm
(10:20:01 PM): do it fgt
Nibilim 10:20 pm
(10:20:06 PM): FUUUU
vcannino93 10:20 pm
(10:20:09 PM): im prob
(10:20:12 PM): the best gw at the IC matchup
(10:20:18 PM): from playing cheese so many times
(10:20:22 PM): and actually having an ICs, derp

Dooms · Jun 30, 2010

Hello~ This is probably one of the matchups I know with IC's the most besides Olimar.

Your dtilt is amazing! It really stops a lot of our moves and we can't do too much to get past it. IC's have trouble dealing with the ledge besides blizzard so you can use the ledge to your advantage. If the IC's desynch and blizzard 'n stuff, space and time back air's, and you can hit one of them. You can also up-b to avoid grabs if you feel like you're in danger so do that. Most of your other moves are really risky, and you should work on seperating Nana and Popo with back air before you try to kill them so you don't get grabbed.

Small post to start it off?

Today · Jun 30, 2010

XD PGN... doesn't he think it's their hardest matchup? They can't grab bair at any spacing unless they decide to run up which is always possible.

@Joey, no that was pretty good! I agree with other moves being risky. Dtilt, bair, and upb are all good in this matchup.

Megavitamins · Jun 30, 2010

Today said:
XD PGN... doesn't he think it's their hardest matchup? They can't grab bair at any spacing unless they decide to run up which is always possible.

Nope, they can ISSDI (in shield SDI) your bair and grab it. The only spacing that's a little iffy is fast fall tipper bair, retreating :I.

Today · Jun 30, 2010

To be honest, I never heard of in shield SDI? Nor have I think I experienced it. Or if I have I have unknowingly.

Edit: Apparently this isn't true or just extremely difficult.

A2ZOMG · Jul 1, 2010

ISSDI is really obscure but has been around since Melee. You can SDI shieldstun basically (sideways).

I hate this matchup and really don't know wtf to do in it lol, since Blizzard is just dumb as hell.

Alphicans · Jul 1, 2010

Don't over complicate things. Get a lead and plank them. Try to get SV, and camp that platform like a mother****er. The match-up's difficulty is directly related to how often you approach them.

EDIT: Note that MLG rules GREATLY changes the match-up, and makes it infinitely easier. Vinnie's 35-65 m/u summary gets kind of shot down due to the fact that you'll probably get something like ps1/delfino as a starter, which makes camping them soooo much easier. Honestly like... Every match vs IC's should be at least 6 minutes, if it's not that long you're doing it wrong.

Double EDIT: So you're probably thinking "oh ok, that's pretty obvious, but getting a lead is pretty hard, and camping only works when I have one." WRONG! So wrong. Even if you're behind by 50%, let that clock go down. What are IC's gonna do when the clock is at 1:30, and it's still 1st stock them at 40, you at 90-100? Run away? Lol, not likely, they'll lose that lead pretty fast if they do, considering once they are in the air they are boned, and that's what they'll have to do to run away. Worst case scenario is that for the last minute and thirty seconds, you struggle to come back from a 50% deficit, which is really quite possible. Of course this is pretty exaggerated, I mean someone is going to break eventually and approach, and that better not be you!

I think with patience and the right mind set, this match-up approaches even, especially with MLG rules.

SFA Smiley · Jul 1, 2010

Wow you guys are seriously slacking if you're still having trouble with ICs

I figured out the secret to beating them months ago

should I share it?

Edit: Don't get grabbed. How? That's for you guys to figure out, i just did most of the work stop being lazy.

ok bad joke i'm sorry

Today · Jul 1, 2010

A2ZOMG said:
ISSDI is really obscure but has been around since Melee. You can SDI shieldstun basically (sideways).

I hate this matchup and really don't know wtf to do in it lol, since Blizzard is just dumb as hell.

Hm... Wow.
Although I wonder how many Icies know how to ISSDI or people in general.

As for Blizzard, why not just upb away? Usually when I upb away from Blizzard I can land a dair because they are too busy in, "Ah~ I can't stop Blizzarding." Other than that, nothing else works. And it's a good move to stop GnWs approaches.

I agree with Alph with MLG stages. 7-9 starters are honestly the best stage lists ever. Because we're obviously going to waste a strike on FD which totally should be considered a CP.
I can imagine playing Icies on SV is kind of hard-ish since the platform moves. And they can always use sh uair on the platform. I can see planking/platforming working out with GnW. Just be smart about the two. To be honest in friendlies we (me vs ic) did the (7-9) starters so I never ended up on SV too much.

There's also nothing wrong with planking and not having a lead. Lol. Usually, if I am just sitting there I'm thinking up of options on what I can do, what they will probably do, etc.

This matchup isn't really that difficult. What Smiley said joke or not, to be honest don't get grabbed and just be smart about it. Nana/Popo are easy to separate. And if Popo has to try and get to Nana he's really easy to juggle. We have upb, we have platforms. If the issue is this ISSDI then I guess you have to be pretty precise on spacing. Probably attack from the ledge. However, I reallly don't know many people that can do ISSDI and like I said I asked people and they all said it was kind of extremely hard. So I probably wouldn't worry too much about it.

PentaSalia · Jul 1, 2010

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
nononono
this match up is nowhere near even lmao

Disregarding MLG rules for now,any IC's that know the G&W MU is going to screw u up badly if you do know what you're doing yourself.
Sure you can camp but they options as well.Their Utilt pretty much ***** us if we're trying to platform camp. Dtilt counters this a fair amount of times but you need to know how to do this which requires practice.Try to avoid using bair as much as possible in this MU,only use it offstage or coming back ontostage(but still risky). Once you get em seperated, just do yer stuff

. I'll admit tho,i'm just repeating what Vinnie tells me cuz im still meh at this MU

. i can beat decent IC's but when it comes to pro ICs/Lain status, i get ***** lol. That's also why i see how other G&Ws misunderstand the IC MU when they fight decent IC's that they think are pro status but are pretty meh in reality so they **** them and think it's even lol.

35:65 ICs that know the MU
45:55 Ics that don't know the MU

edit:also may i add that the "just camp the whole match and be patient" in this MU does not work all the time lol
Once they have a lead on you, any player will naturally get more aggressive and nervous because they feel they've already lost lmao.

Today · Jul 1, 2010

I still think this is a 40:60. I don't think it's harder and I don't think it's really that easier.

I can maybe see this a 35:65 on Final Destination. Maybe worse. But hey, we're not going to FD that's for sure.

Also, if you get more aggressive and nervous because you felt like you lost then that's not good. That means you need more self-control. I learnt not to do that and well, I've gotten smarter and better about the situation. It's not just about being patient, but thinking about your options. I want to win, no way I'm going to get aggressive. It's the same thing when looking for kills. GnWers tend to just try and look for kills, and it never works because they just lose concentration. Just play naturally, play smart, and it'll work out.

Bairing offstage is great. Dtilt a lot. It's not that hard at all. If you feel in danger upb to a platform and then get away. You don't have to just stand there on the platform waiting for a sh uair or an utilt. If they are going to approach dtilt. One of them always get hits. Then you have some options here. You can try and get away and plank. You can try and and keep them separated. You can just Popo because his goal is to get back to Nana. Just tons of options.
You can also uair their sideb.
Five starters, right?
FD, SV, Lylat, PS1, and BF.
Heck. Strike SV. Then Strike FD.
You have, PS1, BF, or Lylat all good stages fighting against Icies.
Lylat probably being your best one.

UTDZac · Jul 1, 2010

I've never had problems against any ICs except Lain. I even played Hylian in a game where I told him I wouldn't use bair... and I bairly won.

I'm really not sure what to think of this matchup, I don't have that much experience against ICs.

toobusytocare · Jul 1, 2010

i agree with whatever ~~PGN~~ Vinnie has said/will say

Alphicans · Jul 1, 2010

Why would you disregard MLG rules? Even SBR rules have the option for 7 starters, and more and more tournaments are using this because of MLG. It's the new thing lol.

Also the argument of someone getting frustrated is silly, and you know it too. It's not hard to go into the match knowing you're gonna camp the **** out of them no matter what. Sure they have options to stop that, but lots of those options force them in the air, which is good for us.

Today · Jul 1, 2010

^Agree, agree, and agree.

The fact that they try and stop me makes it easier on me to get at them.

kewl · Jul 1, 2010

Basically dtilt space.
bair space.
**** nana when theyre separated.
and edgeguard all you can, if you can, try to hit nana with a fair once she's offstage. 90% of the time she will die. if you feel like youre getting bored of playing gay as **** vs ICs, then listen to some music or something idk. just keep doing that **** cause once you go on agressive mode, just for 2 seconds, it could mean a mistake. mistakes = grabs = dead.

LuLLo · Jul 1, 2010

To whoever said you should platform camp on SV against IC's, don't, because they have 2 great tools to pressure and hurt you: Uair and platform-cancel (which is easy with IC's). Use the platform, but don't stay there and think you're safe.

Hylian · Jul 2, 2010

UTDZac said:
I've never had problems against any ICs except Lain. I even played Hylian in a game where I told him I wouldn't use bair... and I bairly won.

I'm really not sure what to think of this matchup, I don't have that much experience against ICs.

My IC's were new then

. The last time I played you I won like 5 out of 6 games Ic's vs GW and then we ***** each others MK's.

2-2 · Jul 8, 2010

ICs are 4/6 until you get grabbed, then it's 0/100. The only thing I could ever do against a ICs who knows what their doing (i.e. Champ) is a retreating bair and hope I hit Popo so I can camp. However, this doesn't work because he grabs me out of bair. And then I lose. But I mainly focus on Nana when they're split because Popo is obviously going to go after her, in which you could bait him for damage, push her further away, and repeat until you take the stock. Again, this doesn't work all the time because they manage to get their stupid mittens on my nose.

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