Match-Up (2010) Rediscussion: ROB

Alrighty, this will be the thread for the ROB MU.

Updated:

To put it mildly, Rob will be camping up a storm and keeping you away with his quick, ranged tilts. Though they are quick, they are still bait-able, and can be punished through power shielding or being risky and fishing for a grab or dash attack.
*Worth noting, our Fsmash and Ftilt can outrange him on the ground, so if we can get into that range, definitely let him have it.

AC Nair is awesome for us in this MU because it can lead into so much more in terms of follow-ups such as Usmash, F/Bair, Fsmash, Ftilt, or even grabs. However, if the Rob catches on, it’s just as punishable as anything else that we can do. Nair is great, but it won’t break this MU, so be mindful of the situation you’re in. My recommendation is using Nair as a crossover move, in order for a more difficult punish for Rob if he can.

Rob has two projectiles working for him, the laser, and the gyro. Now, it’s easy to say that we should reflect it but we have a huge cool down on our reflector and we’d be playing right into Rob’s hands. If the Rob is on autopilot, than reflect away; otherwise, pay attention to what he’s doing because you can at least shield on reaction alone.

Grounded, Rob isn’t terrible since he has his tilts, decent grabs, and trademark spot dodge->Dsmash; however, if we shield this and react quickly, we can hit Rob with a F/Bair and maybe even kill him.

Rob, more than likely, will never be the aggressor in this MU and definitely has us in the camp department, but who doesn’t? Rob also has a strong ledgecamp game since he can still chuck stuff at us. Do not be impatient and try to Dair him because he can still chuck stuff at us and you’re placing yourself in a terrible place and that’s above Rob. Above Rob, bad....... under Rob, good. If you can remain under Rob, either by throwing him up or catching him in a bad spot, try and keep him there and you’ll rack good damage. He’ll try exactly the same to you.

Another place Zelda doesn’t want to be in, is off stage. Don’t let this happen. The only reason we are not even with Rob is because he can turn the MU by getting us offstage. From there, it’s either massive damage or a gimp. Either way, Rob won’t mind.

Now in the opposite situation, pester him with Din’s, especially once he uses UpB. He can’t dodge it anymore and his option is to try to cancel it put with an aerial. We can get a lot of free damage here.

Rob will be killing you with Fsmash, Usmash, Nair, or Bair and that’s really it. Each move you can see coming from a mile away, so as long as you play safe, you should have stocks into the 140s or 150s

Stages: It’s all about comfort honestly. Neither of you can approach well and he’s going to camp regardless of what happens. My recommendation is to avoid Frigate, and stages he can shark at. It can really be a nuisance.
*Worth noting, Rob’s gyro can get stuck in the lava at both Brinstar and Norfair, meaning he won’t get it back for a while. If you can deal with sharking well, go to either of these stages.

Verdict: Minute Disadvantage 55:45 Rob.

All a matter of who gets the lead first.

ScaryLB59 said:

ROB is strange, he doesn't have an overwhelming advantage but he definitely has a nice advantage when he gets the lead. More or less you have to rush him down a lot. When you force him to use his UpB, you need to harass the living **** out of him but I'm sure you knew that.

Some ROBs will try and cross you over with his Bair and then try another attack. If he spaces it bad at all, let him have it OOS style. He'll change his mind real quick. He shouldn't kill you with Nair because it takes so long to come out. Fair gimps around low to mid damages can happen so try and avoid those.

I'll add more later. I would've did this earlier but I was dead after work lol; I'll get to it when I have the energy =D

EDIT: and now I have the energy lol.

All ROBs will space a Zelda with Dtilt and Ftilt. Though they don't rack well alone, they are so annoying to Zelda. They really are!

Gyro and lasers aren't really a problem to Zelda thanks to her reflector but at the same time they shouldn't be shooting it at you blindly. If it's an auto-pilot ROB than take full advantage and stuff it in his face but if they aren't, always be wary of these projectiles just because they will mess you up.

If you get knock into the air, get down ASAP, more than likely ROB will rack most of his damage here if he can gain this position. Just don't let this happen. Our sour Dair can beat his Uair if timed right so that can help.

His Fsmash can beat our aerial approaches but 9/10 times, a ROB will not use this option, but I would avoid aerial approaches at kill percentages.

When you land Dtilt, take full advantage of him, especially if he trips. His get up roll is terribad and any sort of get up is telegraphed, let him have the hurt for sure.

Honestly, if you play this carefully, you should be having an average life in the 150s. He can't kill that well if you are safe and DI well. You can certainly murder him though.

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BigShirtKid said:

Uhhh... Hey guys!! Long time, no see!!

Ahh this fight... My favorite of all of Zelda's high tier matchups. ROB's tricky. He really needs to camp and space very well in order to solidly win this fight. When Zelda's on the ground next to him, he'll start to swing F-tilts and Jab against her shield if she indeed does that. Best thing to do here is what Sudai mentioned before, try to get close enough to where you can powershield those attacks and either Jab, D-smash, or D-tilt. Those attacks should get him off of her back in that situation. A nicely timed F-smash is good here also, but it needs to be precise.

Back in the day I remember ROB's like to D-smash. If Zelda's shields that attack and her back is facing him, it's a free B-air out of shield. That's a free 20 damage, definitely use that towards her advantage.

If she ever gets a grab opportunity, use U-throw. ROB doesn't have very many options in the air above Zelda except for airdodging and N-air. She can either N-air or U-air through the lag on both of these. Granted Zelda doesn't want to be above ROB either because he can do just as much to her as she can to him with N-air, U-air, etc.

When he goes to the ledge for edgecamping, space yourself far away enough from the edge and use Din's Fire to force him off. Usually he'll get-up attack or just ledgehop an airdodge. You can punish with U-smash, U-tilt, or other moves accordingly.

TAKE HIS GYRO!!! IT'S SUCH A GOOD THING WORKING FOR YOU IN THIS MATCH!!! Granted he'll try to bait you with lasers and tilts to get you to use Nayru's Love.

Don't follow him off stage very often. Though if he's charging his gyro while coming back to the stage, try to get underneath him. He can only airdodge or shoot the gyro, so use U-air to get that free hit in if possible.

Try not to get grabbed in this fight. ROB's got a lot going for him with all of his throws and even his grab release. You'll most likely end up off-stage though, and his main killing move in this fight is F-smash since Zelda's a light character. She can ledgehop N-air to get back on the stage, but watch if the ROB spaces accordingly. He edgegaurds best in this match. He's also able to gimp Zelda, so being offstage for too long is definitely not a good thing in this match.

Never land in front of him. He'll either grab you, F-tilt you, D-tilt you, or F-smash you. If your end the air, try to land behind him with an auto-canceled N-air. Like Sudai said, he can't punish accordingly, not even with D-smash.

Other than that, I think that's it...

<3 Sudai

=]

Double B-airs can pshyce a person out. Keep that as a possible option.

55 : 45 ROB's favor is what I come to.

Take him to Battlefield and it's 50 : 50 imo.

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Sudai said:

*flies in at the mention of ROB vs Zelda* I know this match-up like it were my laptop desktop (it's 100% black, so it's not hard to pick apart. XP). @_@

Alright, I did a write up on this forever ago so I'm gonna read through it and edit anything that I think is false now days. Other than that, I'm gonna super lurk this thread and point out anything I see that's wrong or needs to be expanded more upon. <.<

Okay..I found my "Write Up" and it's..not as much as I remembered. XD

Was literally a link to a video of me vs Mocha and me saying "Do this." Sadly, the video isn't up any more so I can't link to it.

Basically, the big idea is, we camp you. Not conventional camping though. ROB's tilts out speed and out disjoint every ground option Zelda has (yes, I know how fast your DTilt and DSmash are, I'll cover jab a bit later), so we camp at FTilt range and if you try to do anything, we tilt you. That's our best option and if we can pressure you back against a ledge, we're at a serious advantage.

So as a Zelda, what you want to do is just stay close to ROB. Use your jab, and if you absolutely have to go aerial, auto canceled NAir landing behind ROB is an awesome idea. Your NAir and Jab are awesome in this. Your Jab is fast enough and disjointed enough to contend with ROB's titles, but if you hit us, we're either spaced wrong, timed something wrong, or we're going to trade.

Try to get ROB into the air, bait the airdodge, and keep us in the air. If you can bait a low airdodge, auto canceled NAir > USmash is great. It'll rack up damage -and- get us back in the air.

USmash is awesome for pressuring ROB in his shield, you can get in on us fast, it last forever (spotdodge eater, yay), and it will shield poke us if our shield is a bit depleted and we don't angle it. There's also enough frames between the end of the hitlag on some parts of the USmash that we can accidentally buffer a roll while tilting our shield and it'll eff us because the next hit will come out before we gain invincibility.

That's all that really comes to mind right now. If I think up more, or see something I want to comment on, you can expect me to. Lurking this thread hardcore. :o

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I think this is a nice way to start this discussion off.

OK

GO!

F-smash is mediocre.

Also he has a blindspot the size of an elephant under him.

Don't choose FD either. Go Battlefield (Or something similar) imo.

For some reason, I always lose this match up though. So my advice might not be great.

I've always found this matchup to be slightly in ROB's favour.... but only slightly (55:45)

I agree with the ratio but this is really if we keep the match close. If not, it gets worse and worse.

well I can agree with that. It's bad if we let him get a lead (though it's bad for him if he lets us get a lead too).
I guess it's easier for him to get a lead or to break ours, but we can both do nasty things to each other.


And when BOTH people can do nasty things to the other like that, that's called a healthy love life a nearly even matchup.

the beauty of this MU are 2 things: ROB's relatively large body, and ROB's terribad DI abilities. LK, Uair, and well spaced smashes and tilts will tear him apart.

The problem (which was stated earlier) was getting past his ftilt and dtilt.

Personally, this is one matchup where I like to be more aggressive. ROB's aerial game is relatively slow (aside from fair of course) and most of ROB's damage racking will come from the tilts and grabs and projectiles (which you shouldn't get hit by). Keep an eye out for his tilts. The last hit of Fsmash will outrange his Ftilt (i think? i usually beat it out, correct me if i'm wrong please). and his Fsmash is terribad, just power shield and dash attack or hyphen usmash or fsmash. Dtilt is a monster here. tripping potential, and can link into a grab, a fsmash, a dsmash, a ftilt, and jab.

AVOID DTILT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. What I usually do is when ROB tries to dtilt, i'll shield and roll away. ROB has no answers to you rolling away other than possibly laser or gyro, which is a good trade off.

Of course, Dsmash is a nuisance. Spotdodge > dsmash is beast with ROB. Unfortunately, Zelda has very few options against it. Most of the time ROB will spotdodge then dsmash if you whiff a fsmash or usmash. it's just best to take the hit and respace yourself. However, if you happen to have good timing, you can always shield the dsmash then follow up with your own equally broken dsmash, but don't count on it every time.

I think i covered a few key points, so maybe we can develop off these?

I hate this matchup BTW.


Yes, it's one of zelda's most winnable matchups, but I absolutely abhor the playing style that ROB needs to take to give him the best chance he can get in the matchup. it is so boring to play against.

Rob does worry me at times. I struggle against a retreating Rob who uses a lot of ftilt/dtilt/throw mixups.

Nairing behind his shield is safe afaik. Also Dsmash on Z's shield should get a kick from behind. Possibly from the front as well but he wouldn't do that... at least not often.

I try to take his gyro then play a bit of a keepaway game with it. You can Z drop Nair catch it to pressure and poke his shield like crazy. Sometimes empty SHing with the gyro can prove effective. Don't know many glide toss options because I hardly have an opportunity to do them.

you can footstool LK Rob lol... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4SVYerlZUo&feature=related

These quotes have useful info (Scary maybe you'd want to include them in the OP as well):

Sudai said:

*flies in at the mention of ROB vs Zelda* I know this match-up like it were my laptop desktop (it's 100% black, so it's not hard to pick apart. XP). @_@

Alright, I did a write up on this forever ago so I'm gonna read through it and edit anything that I think is false now days. Other than that, I'm gonna super lurk this thread and point out anything I see that's wrong or needs to be expanded more upon. <.<

Okay..I found my "Write Up" and it's..not as much as I remembered. XD

Was literally a link to a video of me vs Mocha and me saying "Do this." Sadly, the video isn't up any more so I can't link to it.

Basically, the big idea is, we camp you. Not conventional camping though. ROB's tilts out speed and out disjoint every ground option Zelda has (yes, I know how fast your DTilt and DSmash are, I'll cover jab a bit later), so we camp at FTilt range and if you try to do anything, we tilt you. That's our best option and if we can pressure you back against a ledge, we're at a serious advantage.

So as a Zelda, what you want to do is just stay close to ROB. Use your jab, and if you absolutely have to go aerial, auto canceled NAir landing behind ROB is an awesome idea. Your NAir and Jab are awesome in this. Your Jab is fast enough and disjointed enough to contend with ROB's titles, but if you hit us, we're either spaced wrong, timed something wrong, or we're going to trade.

Try to get ROB into the air, bait the airdodge, and keep us in the air. If you can bait a low airdodge, auto canceled NAir > USmash is great. It'll rack up damage -and- get us back in the air.

USmash is awesome for pressuring ROB in his shield, you can get in on us fast, it last forever (spotdodge eater, yay), and it will shield poke us if our shield is a bit depleted and we don't angle it. There's also enough frames between the end of the hitlag on some parts of the USmash that we can accidentally buffer a roll while tilting our shield and it'll eff us because the next hit will come out before we gain invincibility.

That's all that really comes to mind right now. If I think up more, or see something I want to comment on, you can expect me to. Lurking this thread hardcore. :o

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BigShirtKid said:

Uhhh... Hey guys!! Long time, no see!!

Ahh this fight... My favorite of all of Zelda's high tier matchups. ROB's tricky. He really needs to camp and space very well in order to solidly win this fight. When Zelda's on the ground next to him, he'll start to swing F-tilts and Jab against her shield if she indeed does that. Best thing to do here is what Sudai mentioned before, try to get close enough to where you can powershield those attacks and either Jab, D-smash, or D-tilt. Those attacks should get him off of her back in that situation. A nicely timed F-smash is good here also, but it needs to be precise.

Back in the day I remember ROB's like to D-smash. If Zelda's shields that attack and her back is facing him, it's a free B-air out of shield. That's a free 20 damage, definitely use that towards her advantage.

If she ever gets a grab opportunity, use U-throw. ROB doesn't have very many options in the air above Zelda except for airdodging and N-air. She can either N-air or U-air through the lag on both of these. Granted Zelda doesn't want to be above ROB either because he can do just as much to her as she can to him with N-air, U-air, etc.

When he goes to the ledge for edgecamping, space yourself far away enough from the edge and use Din's Fire to force him off. Usually he'll get-up attack or just ledgehop an airdodge. You can punish with U-smash, U-tilt, or other moves accordingly.

TAKE HIS GYRO!!! IT'S SUCH A GOOD THING WORKING FOR YOU IN THIS MATCH!!! Granted he'll try to bait you with lasers and tilts to get you to use Nayru's Love.

Don't follow him off stage very often. Though if he's charging his gyro while coming back to the stage, try to get underneath him. He can only airdodge or shoot the gyro, so use U-air to get that free hit in if possible.

Try not to get grabbed in this fight. ROB's got a lot going for him with all of his throws and even his grab release. You'll most likely end up off-stage though, and his main killing move in this fight is F-smash since Zelda's a light character. She can ledgehop N-air to get back on the stage, but watch if the ROB spaces accordingly. He edgegaurds best in this match. He's also able to gimp Zelda, so being offstage for too long is definitely not a good thing in this match.

Never land in front of him. He'll either grab you, F-tilt you, D-tilt you, or F-smash you. If your end the air, try to land behind him with an auto-canceled N-air. Like Sudai said, he can't punish accordingly, not even with D-smash.

Other than that, I think that's it...

<3 Sudai

=]

Double B-airs can pshyce a person out. Keep that as a possible option.

55 : 45 ROB's favor is what I come to.

Take him to Battlefield and it's 50 : 50 imo.

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I agree with these quotes enough to include them so consider them included.

Stages? BF is good
Lylat actually is not bad
CS is ok
Frigate is NO!

I'm thinking stages with long edges would be best. The real only threat of vertical death is his Usmash. Everything else can be DIed well enough to not die off the top.

lawl, those quotes are old as sin, but it's hilarious because me and Big Shirt Kid really did push the metagame of this MU to the max a long time ago.

Lol, ain't much has changed. So most of this stuff still holds true kinda.....

I hate Zelda, she hits my blindspot and stuff.

I dont recommend reflecting the lazors or gyros as the ROB can get smart and fire one and fire off the other on neutral B's cool down, Just powershield the laz0rs and gyro (Dont try and grab it unless you have practice as every time it hits you it goes towards the refresh move list)

One thing to note about ROB is that he has no bad stages so play stages your conformable with, I personally dont find issues with FD compared to BF

ROB's tilts reck zelda if you do not predict it and it completely shuts down a good amount of your close range game

Never assume ROB is out of fuel when recovering so always take your time when predicting his recovery

I think its a 60/40 MU but I only mess around with zelda


Neutrals : In order
FD , SV , PS1 , BF , Llyat, YI

CPs , Delfino , Halberd (see sharking from a mile away to just jump away and helps our recovery as if you see a ROB following you off stage you probly wont make it back) , FD

Ban Frigate ( seriously ROB doesnt even need to touch the main stage during phase 2 its annoying Dims fire can do some damage but not much)

In terms of stages, we tend to like Rainbow Cruise, Frigate, Delfino, and sometimes Halberd or Pictochat. I usually take Zelda to FD to start and strike BF. Counterpicking, I choose Frigate or YI. Frigate for obvious advantages, but YI so that I can telegraph her recovery easier because the side messes with her so much.

40-60 imo.
As people said before Zelda need to "get in" on this match up, and ROB needs to keep her away.
Who do you think has an easier time reaching that objective?
Seeing how Zelda is very slow and has no approach
ROB

A smart ROB that knows how to punish Nayru's Love will be able to force her to approach, then keep her within the right distance with his tilts.

Fuujin said:

A smart ROB that knows how to punish Nayru's Love . . .

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Zelda should really only be using that move sporadically, because we all know it's punishable.

You're better off just forgetting NL since ROB can throw out laser, gyro, laser and get you with at least one.

GwJumpman said:

You're better off just forgetting NL since ROB can throw out laser, gyro, laser and get you with at least one.

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I usually don't use NL in this MU unless I know FOR A FACT that he's going to use a laser after a gyro or vice versa (OOS Neutral B FTW lol). but you are FAR better off shielding it, even if its not a powershield. You are just that much safer because he can't necessarily spam his projectiles like Falco. And with that little time after using a laser, you have some time to approach the best way you can.

So guys... how does one deal with his tilt spacing? I feel as if there is simply no approach from the front of Rob whatsoever!

I normally just short hop back some dins or just roll away.

however, as I'm sure should go without saying, exactly how I deal with it depends on the stage that I'm currently on, and the playstyle of the ROB I'm fighting.

Kataefi said:

So guys... how does one deal with his tilt spacing? I feel as if there is simply no approach from the front of Rob whatsoever!

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the best way to deal with it is to be patient. wait for ROB to get antsy and force an approach. we have the advantage when rob is approaching us due to his massive body. Well spaced fsmashes will wreck rob's tilts as well. Also, consider using sh air dodges or sh nairs.

AzNfinesse said:

force an approach

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lolwut?
We are talking about Zelda right?
Sure she can try to be patient, and if the ROB is stupid he can approach making things harder on him, but he has all the tools to sit comfortably and wait for her to approach.
Like I said, a smart ROB who knows the match up won't be approaching, he has no need to go after her.
He can do what you just recommended that Zelda does better than she can do it herself.

Fuujin said:

lolwut?
We are talking about Zelda right?
Sure she can try to be patient, and if the ROB is stupid he can approach making things harder on him, but he has all the tools to sit comfortably and wait for her to approach.
Like I said, a smart ROB who knows the match up won't be approaching, he has no need to go after her.
He can do what you just recommended that Zelda does better then she can do it herself.

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true he can stand back all day and rack up damage, but a smart zelda won't be getting killed by a gyro or a laser, unless zelda's already off the stage (in which case she's dead regardless of the MU). ROB is going to eventually have to approach if he wants that kill.

So you sit back and let rob get you at kill percent THEN you start attacking seriously? Easier MU than I thought...

GwJumpman said:

So you sit back and let rob get you at kill percent THEN you start attacking seriously? Easier MU than I thought...

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no he's right.


ROB can't kill zelda with a gyro or laser unless she's an idiot, and a zelda at 150% damage can kill potentially an agressive ROB from 0% because his approaches against her are just that awful.

If you plan on not approaching until I approach, that's going to result in you taking more damage than myself. By kill percent, I still don't have to approach unless I'm taking damage, which I shouldn't, from Din's fire or I'm losing. If I do approach, I always have the option to SHFF retreating Nairs, RAR'd Bairs, camping moar.

That all being said, I DO think Zelda legitimately has the advantage here 55:45 or 60:40. She just ***** my blind spot and like you said, ROB can't approach worth squat, they're all based on edumacated predictions.

no he's right.
ROB can't kill zelda with a gyro or laser unless she's an idiot, and a zelda at 150% damage can kill potentially an agressive ROB from 0% because his approaches against her are just that awful.

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Letting ROB camp for free is dumb.

ROB getting murdered by Zelda because of his poor approach is an extremely moot point since ROB does not have to approach in the first place. It's also a terrible argument because Zelda approaches far worse against ROB then ROB does against Zelda. Why bother bringing up a scenario that will never happen? ROB will never be forced to approach with the almighty "strategy" of letting him camp you until you're at kill percents, so when will this fabled "aggressive" ROB ever approach you? Oh yeah...he won't.

If you think that ROB has to approach to win, you'd be wrong. Surprise! There's a clock. You know who's going to be winning the camp war? ROB. You know who's going to have the % lead? ROB. You know who has to approach? You.

MrEh said:

Zelda approaches far worse against ROB then ROB does against Zelda.

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Your bias is showing.



even IF Zelda's approaches are worse, it's only marginal. not FAR WORSE, as you claim. And, in fact, ROB's may be worse than Zelda's.

Lol but it's not.

even if we say Zelda' aproaches are worse, ROB's on her are, really, almost just as awful.

KayLo! said:

But he doesn't have to approach. We do. -_____-

That's the point MrEh was making.

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nope... pretty sure the point I was refuting was this point:

MrEh said:

It's also a terrible argument because Zelda approaches far worse against ROB then ROB does against Zelda.

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Here's the facts:

1. Zelda's approaches are worse than ROBs (I'm saying saying how much worse, they're just worse.)
2. ROB doesn't even have to approach, so Zelda's lack of good approaches is a major disadvantage

GwJumpman said:

2. ROB doesn't even have to approach, so Zelda's lack of good approaches is a major disadvantage

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this, and ROB's superiority in the air are the problems I have with the matchup..... that is what makes me think this matchup is ROB's advantage... however slightly.... we can **** his **** up.

Yea, by no means is it a landslide, I still think Zelda has the advantage here, but it's more of like a 45:55 type deal.