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Why you shouldn't complain about Lag

Zatchiel

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I've taken into account how many people, including myself, have obsessively accused Lag of being the main cause of a loss.
To be more specific, they "john" about why they lose a game, even when there didn't appear to be a technicality caused by said Lag.
Here are a few good reasons:



Lag isn't the only factor
I can't tell you how many times i hear or see "Lag is the only
reason i lost."
If there wasn't any lag, are you saying you would have won? Do you think that the other person doesn't have more potential outside of Lag as you do?

Lag is the cause of something unsatisfactory?(SD, Untimely Smash, miss of gimping a recovery, etc.)
No, Lag is NOT the only reason you Self-Destruct, that's right, you too play a role in what your character does, and Lag only reduces the time of input.
Say you're Captain Falcon on Battlefield, and you get Fsmashed at about 30% near the edge by a Wolf. You DI down and during his Fsmash, you input Falcon Kick, but the input time causes you to shoot downward with the aerial version of said move. Was it Lag's fault that you attempted to use a move during another attack? Or even attempt to buffer the move before escaping the opposing attack?

If you are fighting Lag, more than likely, they are too.
This one should be self-explanatory; You are lagging just about as hard as them, so don't, or at least try not to, complain on the Lag.

You fall into something that normally wouldn't hit offline.
Ike Fsmash, Falcon Punch, Snake Fsmash, anything that you could call superbly powerful and slow in startup, you'd also probably say it wouldn't have hit if it was offline.
Judging by the keen reaction and prediction skill needed to avoid a move over Wifi, doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't hit if it was offline. If you're fighting a Snake and you die from Fsmash twice in a single game, that's not just Lag keeping you from avoiding the move, for all you know, they could have planned it.

You are what you eat.
That's right, you are what you eat= You are what you play against. You're both humans on the same brand of console, on the same Wifi provider, and most importantly, in the same amount of Lag.

The other person isn't too legit, and their play-style wouldn't work if it was an offline battle.
This is what i see and hear a lot, and am also very submit to the way some people chose to play(Roll --> Smash --> Dodge --> Smash). They are still learning the game obviously, and giving them some neat tips to make them more skillful isn't too out of the question, is it?

You can't do what you can't do.
Don't challenge a player you know is better than you at the game, lose, and complain that you are only being 2 stocked because of the Lag. If they can two stock you online, what makes you think they can't 3 stock you offline? Same old same old, they are fighting the Lag right along with you.

You have a habit caused by Lag.
No, you don't. Lag can alter how you play online, but it doesn't give or take away the habits you have offline. Example: You're a Snake on Smashville vs MK, and every time MK is on the moving platform, you DACUS under to him and try to Uair him, but you wouldn't do this offline. No johns, you do it because of your own intentions, not the fact that Lag can hold you back.

Conclusion.
A brief summary of what i learned from this: Lag doesn't affect how you play, but instead, it curves what you can do, and can limit your options in some situations.
You don't like the Lag, i don't like the Lag, but until something goes on with the Brawl Servers(Which could be quite a while), the Lag is here to stay.


Get used to it.:laugh:

 

Brickbox

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People need to frown upon lag instead of John about it
 

Zatchiel

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Thanks Hoshi, and major lol at b[]x XD
 

Bunny4Eva

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LP lags...

Thats why camping/spamming is a legit strategy on wifi.
Lags <3
 

Zatchiel

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I know, i hate my net T.T
But i guess i have to deal with it.
 

Zatchiel

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Look at the date of creation
/Discuss

Forgot this:
4. Do not make any threads complaining about how horrible Nintendo's Wifi network is. You can simply post in our stickied social thread.
 

Zatchiel

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The fact that Lag was annoying i knew, but it wasn't going to leave until i got better Wifi, so why complain?
 

Aibou

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I'll use numbers to break this down rather than quotes, since that'll take too long >.....> The numbers represent each of your subtitles in order obv.

1) I like this one.

2) This isn't entirely true, and your example isn't a very good one. I mean who would DI DOWN and then use Falcon Kick right away? But more to the point, lag CAN be the only reason for something unsatisfactory like an SD. Characters like Ness and Lucas can attest to that.

3) That's a given, but how someone is affected by lag is slightly character and playstyle dependent. If you're using Snake and all you do is roll and ftilt, then you've got a good chance of winning. HOWEVER a good enough player wouldn't fall for this kind of thing. Then again, we're not all amazing players here...

4) Something like Ike's fsmash that has bogus range CAN indeed kill you easily in lag. Spacing yourself is hard to do in lag. And one misspacing can get you killed by something stupid like that.

5) Sounds a lot like number 3...

6) This one. Not everyone is "still learning" when they play this way. I can name a few wifi Snakes that I've played that are indeed good players but still roll/dodge to ftilt all day long (but I won't name them).

7) This is true (y)

8) I don't see anyone complain about anything like that really...

Conclusion: There are legitimate lag johns, however it is true that we're just going to have to suck it up because, for most of the people I've seen on wifi, it's either wifi, or CPUs all day...
 

Zatchiel

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I'll use numbers to break this down rather than quotes, since that'll take too long >.....> The numbers represent each of your subtitles in order obv.

1) I like this one.
Thank you.

2) This isn't entirely true, and your example isn't a very good one. I mean who would DI DOWN and then use Falcon Kick right away? But more to the point, lag CAN be the only reason for something unsatisfactory like an SD. Characters like Ness and Lucas can attest to that.
If you're going to play Lucas or Ness over Wifi, i think you should come prepared for what's coming to you. I understand i gave a bad example, but it isn't unheard of.

3) That's a given, but how someone is affected by lag is slightly character and playstyle dependent. If you're using Snake and all you do is roll and ftilt, then you've got a good chance of winning. HOWEVER a good enough player wouldn't fall for this kind of thing. Then again, we're not all amazing players here...
You're misinterpreting, i said that they are lagging as hard as you are, nothing in this based on play style.

4) Something like Ike's fsmash that has bogus range CAN indeed kill you easily in lag. Spacing yourself is hard to do in lag. And one misspacing can get you killed by something stupid like that.
If you're constantly falling for the same Jab --> Hypno Fsmash by Ike, that's on you. If you are Wolf and input SH Blaster, but get Up+B leaving you open to Fsmash, that's lag, but not enough to complain about if you're trying so hard as to use a move that can be powershielded, but wouldn't Lag prevent them from doing that?


5) Sounds a lot like number 3...

It resembles it in a way, but it just proves my point more clearly.

6) This one. Not everyone is "still learning" when they play this way. I can name a few wifi Snakes that I've played that are indeed good players but still roll/dodge to ftilt all day long (but I won't name them).
If they are good players and choose to sandbag and play with that style, that's them, not Lag.

7) This is true (y)
Thank you.

8) I don't see anyone complain about anything like that really...
You'd be astounded at what i can tell you.

Conclusion: There are legitimate lag johns, however it is true that we're just going to have to suck it up because, for most of the people I've seen on wifi, it's either wifi, or CPUs all day...

If you're going to john at other players about Lag, you'd be better off not playing them until the connection clears up, other than that, it's your fault. I have all Red connections on my FC list, yep, i used to complain at the lag a lot, but after a while, when you understand how hard you both have to try, it shouldn't be much if an issue. If it is, you shouldn't be playing them outside of freindlies, which can also bring you to question.
Didn't feel to re-quote, so the response of your input is in Red.
 

Aibou

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4) Not exactly what I meant. If you use a laggy like Wolf's upB to attack, then you deserve to get hit by an Ike fsmash. What I mean is like you're trying to approach, but Ike starts using fsmash. You SEE it coming and try to avoid it by retreating/shielding, but you get hit because the delay messed you up. That's what I mean...though how I worded it may not make sense...

6) The player's I've played do that when they can't win, not to sandbag.


I have no queries about anything else.
 

Zatchiel

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4) Not exactly what I meant. If you use a laggy like Wolf's upB to attack, then you deserve to get hit by an Ike fsmash. What I mean is like you're trying to approach, but Ike starts using fsmash. You SEE it coming and try to avoid it by retreating/shielding, but you get hit because the delay messed you up. That's what I mean...though how I worded it may not make sense...
I understand that fully, but if Lag can restrain you so much from playing your Defensive, the Ike should be having a hard time Offensive. If you can time it out, there shouldn't be any problems. I understand i've tried to bait out a Fsmash and punish but i took a fully charged one, but it's my fault for choosing a bad way to punish in Lag. To be more clear, why would you be playing an Ike that spams Fsmash, and more specific, why play him if you lag THAT bad?

6) The player's I've played do that when they can't win, not to sandbag.
If they can't win and choose to spam, what's the point of them playing, or you playing for that matter? Again, if your connection is sure-fire go, you should be able to punish even the most broken of moves.
MK Dsmash, loooool punish this.

If that's not what you meant, please give a clearer statement.



I have no queries about anything else.
Just look for Red.....again....lool


Edit:
Or you can, you know, just not play wifi at all.
This pretty much renders all our statements invalid.

Edit2: Also, highlight your quote when you read. Secret message is secret.
 

Aibou

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4) Why I would play one would be due to a mandatory match like a wifi tournament. Though I understand when you say not to play them. I do my best to avoid them...

6) I mean when connection is bad, and they still can't beat me (for whatever strange reason that is), it goes to tilts and rolling/dodging all day. What's the point of them playing? I wish I knew that answer. What's the point of me playing? For reasons like, as aforementioned, wifi tournies.


I wish I could play Brawl offline...
 

Zatchiel

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4) Why I would play one would be due to a mandatory match like a wifi tournament. Though I understand when you say not to play them. I do my best to avoid them...

That's completely legit, and it seems like a struggle to surpass spam over laggy Wifi, i'm just saying, don't complain. But other than that, i'm with you on this 100%.

6) I mean when connection is bad, and they still can't beat me (for whatever strange reason that is), it goes to tilts and rolling/dodging all day. What's the point of them playing? I wish I knew that answer. What's the point of me playing? For reasons like, as aforementioned, wifi tournies.

One of you guys should drop, easy as that. TGK left DTK for the unacceptable Lag in their games, and that was settled. I'm sorry if you have to play someone like that in a mandatory tourney, but it's them you should be worried about, not how bad Wifi can be.

I wish I could play Brawl offline...
Don't we all?
Moar Red.
 

Zatchiel

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You know what, that just sucks, horribad x.x
Again, it's not Wifi's problem that someone has to give up a win for the tourney.
But again, it sucks, bad :mad:
 

Zatchiel

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I remember saying something like that to Kupo in the char discussion thread.
 

Dracospawn

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I could tell you that but then I'f have to...ummmm
You know, lag actually HELPS me sometimes. I'd can dodge moves that would've hit me because I couldn't react to their signals (a movement that tells what move their gonna do) fast enough. Its kinda like the matrix. But I rarely experience severe lag so its not too much of a problem for me.
 

Zatchiel

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Says the Wolf main....


loljk, but i get what you mean, it helps me sometimes too :laugh:
 

Zatchiel

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I don't main Link yet, we're even.
 

davidvkimball

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Rather than complaining about it, I've simply resorted to abandoning online play altogether. Is that reasonable? I really feel lag is detrimental to my gameplay. Am I just being short-sided?
 
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