FeSoren presents: D3s data against MK as to what safe on block as to request of Junk.

Notes
SA stands for soonest action
In this guide your opponent will not be able to perform any action in the frames I listed. SA stands represents the added frames you get because of soonest action.

Any advantage is calculated with shield drop included

I will also include standing pivot grab

I did not get any proof of jumping being 8 frames but in this guide ASSUME I DID.

Your frame needs work; there is no data on your jab or specials

Assume all actions are buffered



NOTE THIS GUIDE DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT SPACING OR REACTION TIME USE DISCRECTION.

BASIC GUIDE TO WHAT YOU CAN DO OOS IN GENERAL (assuming soonest action is shield)
-2 –Grab*
+6- pivot grab*
+ 7 – Down tilt, back air
+ 8- nair
+9- Dair
+11- Up air
+12- Ftilt, utilt
+13 Up smash
+ 14-downsmash
+17-fair
+26- dash attack
+43 F smash
1* because grabs go through shield they get an extra frame, I will not add spot doges due to characters having jabs that are faster than shield + spot dodge.



MKs Frame data http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=205614

Dtilt

Advantage +4 SA +5
Ground options: grab
Aerial options none
• You have an 8 frame grab window to do this before he can dtilt again
Ftilt 1
Advantage +12 SA + 13
Ground options. Grab, Dtilt Forward tilt, pivot grab, up smash
Arial options Nair,bair, uair, dair

Ftilt 2-3
Advantage +23 SA+ 24
Ground options grab, pivot grab, dtilt, uptilt, ftilt, down smash, up smash.
Aerial options all

Uptilt
Frame advantedge +23 SA+ 24
Ground options grab, pivot grab, dtilt, uptilt, ftilt, down smash, up smash.
Aerial options all

F smash
Advantedge + 5 SA + 6
Ground options grab, pivot grab
Aerial options, none

Dsmash front
Advantage+ 18 SA +19
Ground options, grab, pivot grab, Dtilt, uptilt, ftilt, down smash. up smash
Aerial options, All

Down Smash back
Advantedge +13 SA + 14
Grounded options, grab pivot grab, dtilt, uptilt, Ftilt, down smash, up smash
Aerial options, bair, nair, uair, dair

U smash
Advantage +24, SA 25
Ground options grab, pivot grab, dtilt, uptilt, ftilt, down smash, up smash.
Aerial options all

Nair
Realistically + 8 SA + 9
Ground options- grab, pivot grab, Dtilt
Aerial options, nair, bair

Fair
Advantedge +1 SA +2

Ground options, grab

Bair
Advantage – 5
Options-…………….none
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=205614
Really not kidding you.

Dair
Advantage + 11 + 12
Ground options Grab, pivot grab, dtilt, ftilt, utilt,
Aerial options nair, bair ,uair, dair

Uair
Advantage + 3 SA + 4
Ground options grab
Aerial options none

MK boards have not listed their data regarding specials

good stuff man. u know itd be nice for ppl just to compare frame data and realize what the heck they can do vs situations on meta on their own. It isnt hard to do. Things can be punished if u simply buffer out of shield which is ridiculously easy. Or of course grab. Ppl miss too many opportunities to punish cuz theyre scared.

syonryoken said:

good stuff man. u know itd be nice for ppl just to compare frame data and realize what the heck they can do vs situations on meta on their own. It isnt hard to do. Things can be punished if u simply buffer out of shield which is ridiculously easy. Or of course grab. Ppl miss too many opportunities to punish cuz theyre scared.

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I think it's just that good MK's learned how to space, mix it up, and most importantly camp vs DDD which makes it hard.

But I agree there are definitely times I'm sure I could have d-smashed mk after shielding his d-smash where I opted to go with a grab instead. Always good to know your options.

In the end it still comes down to experience. You have to know what you're human reaction time allows you to do, and whether or not you can improve it with increased exposure to the situation.

Nice thread, it was very helpful

Very nice thread, we need something like this for every character, Instead of grabbing to much on shield I realize I have alot better options

*edit*
Computer locked up for a double post /ignore

Wow, wtf? DDD has no options when he shields MK's bair??

Kaffei said:

Wow, wtf? DDD has no options when he shields MK's bair??

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This is good to know, thanks D3 boards

i dont think soren counted landing lag of mk b-air

interesting..thanks for this its really handy

∫unk said:

i dont think soren counted landing lag of mk b-air

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Fix it please >_<

∫unk said:

i dont think soren counted landing lag of mk b-air

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no I have not, so yes keep it in mind