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Match Up Thread Export - Mario

Noobicidal

Smash Master
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Dec 27, 2008
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45:55 - Mario's Advantage


This thread will be used to help keep match up discussion clean and concise. I was originally against the idea of having these, but after searching through our mess of a discussion thread, I've deemed this to be the best course of action. I'll probably turn the original thread into a compendium, ask for it to be stickied, and just use that thread for deciding the next match up discussion, and it will be a place for other boards to contact us for match up discussions of their own. This series of threads will all be linked to the compendium.

With that said, this thread is dedicated to the Jigglypuff/Mario match up. Let the discussion commence!

Match Up Summary

Jigglypuff's on-stage game pales in comparison to Mario's. Using a combination of Fireballs, FLUDD, Nair, Uair, and Dair, Mario can keep us exactly where he wants to. His mid-range game is impressive, to say the least, and he does quite well in close combat. Mario's Up-Smash is his most threatening kill option against Jigglypuff, killing at nearly 90% (assuming the Up Smash has a fair charge), and also doubles as an "anti-air" attack, which can either completely shut down Jigglypuff's approach options or clank with them, aside from Pound.

Air game... I rarely ever want to fight Jigglypuffs in the air. Their control and spacing there is pretty annoying, with a bunch of aerial options and her ability to maneuver in the air (coupled with that frustrating pound). Offstage with Mario defending, might be a little tough for Jigglypuff, but recovering high helps to remedy most of what we can do. Offstage with Jigglypuff... well, if you mess up one of our creative options coming back onto the stage, I would suffice to say that we're ****ed.
Due to the sheer fact that Mario has several potent on-stage killing methods compared to us (e.g. Up-Smash, Up-Tilt, Back throw), Jigglypuff NEEDS to get Mario off-stage. A fresh Fair will kill him at 90% near the ledge, and Bair can set up gimps as soon as nearly 60%. Mario has several clever ways to get back to the ledge, but Jigglypuff's combined maneuverability and off-stage game will make Mario's recovery a living hell.

Stage Picks and Bans

Jigglypuff's best stage in this match up would have to be Rainbow Cruise. RC is an air-based stage for the most part, and Jigglypuff excels nowhere better. Due to RC's inherent lack of stable ground and ledges, one wrong move on Mario's part can literally cost him a stock. Brinstar is another great stage for Jigglypuff due to its "shark-able" floor and close boundaries, which makes killing for Jigglypuff tremendously easier. If Jigglypuff chooses to attempt to kill with Rest, being in contact with the stage's vegetation doubles Rest's hitbox, making it significantly easier to land. Mario prefers stages with multiple platforms, so try and avoid stages such as Battlefield and Pokemon Stadium 1.


Final Word

Mario excels on-stage, and Jigglypuff excels off-stage. The winner of this match will be determined by the player who can manipulate their opponent most effectively, and keep them in the location of their preference. While it may be Mario's advantage, it's only slight, so with caution and patience, Jigglypuff can win this up-hill battle.


Relevant/Important Links

Mario's Frame Data - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=219407
The Mario Match Up Thread - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227291
Projectile Canceling as Jigglypuff - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=218940
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
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Alright yay. ^_^ Are the mario's contacted? ;o if not ill grab em in here.

So yea Mario is probably a weird MU. Doesn't seem like he would **** Jiggly but ima wait till I input. I'd say 55:45 slight disadvantage for her.

soooo tired (z_z)
 

Noobicidal

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Alright yay. ^_^ Are the mario's contacted? ;o if not ill grab em in here.
I've been too busy working on these threads and contacting various people to contact them. I would very much appreciate that.
 
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I hope you guys realise that with you having contacted the Marios, A2Z is going to rear his head?
 

Juushichi

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I agree that it's 50-50 to 55-45 Mario. We'll more or less absolutely abuse Jigglypuff on stage and she'll destroy us off of it. I think we have the tools to keep Jigglypuff off of us and abuse her when we can on stage both at mid-range and at close range.

We have mid-range locked down pretty solidly between fireballs, FLUDD, Bair and the occasional cape and I think close-range is our advantage too, but I've see some creative Jigglypuff's wreck me at close range, too. I know our upsmash kills Jigglypuff pretty early and nair/dair has done wonders (for me) in this MU, as well.

Air game... I rarely ever want to fight Jigglypuffs in the air. Their control and spacing there is pretty annoying, with a bunch of aerial options and her ability to maneuver in the air (coupled with that frustrating pound). Offstage with Mario defending, might be a little tough for Jigglypuff, but recovering high helps to remedy most of what we can do. Offstage with Jigglypuff... well, if you mess up one of our creative options coming back onto the stage, I would suffice to say that we're ****ed. It's a fun matchup, in my opinion... but nothing more drastic than 55-45 Mario. (I wouldn't be against 50-50, either).
 

JuxtaposeX

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A friend of mine likes to roll out back onto the stage, but I just cape him and he goes flying the other way :D
 

A2ZOMG

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Mario wins slightly, but it's not exactly what I would call an easy matchup for Mario. You would be surprised how much I've played this particular matchup.

The main reason Mario wins is due to having a fairly easy time killing Jigglypuff. Anytime Jiggs is around say 90ish percent (I forget exactly what) she is at risk of getting anti-aired by Up-smash for an easy kill. But generally speaking Mario doesn't have to worry too much about kills in this matchup as long as he lands hits, something he'll do fairly easily due to the speed of his moves. Anything that Mario uses less in this matchup is a viable killer, even U-tilt which as I recall can get Jiggs at around 130ish if fresh, and like his Up-smash can effectively anti-air most of Jiggs's approaches. Jiggs's extremely light weight also makes Mario's B-throw a very viable killer in this matchup.

Other things to note is his Jab cancel game, which leads to pretty much whatever he wants in this matchup. Which is good for him as a source of either KOs or damage.

I don't particularly like fireballs in this matchup since Jiggs can hit through them or just weave around them pretty easily, and even if she is hit by a fireball in the air, she can probably still F-air after it. As I recall they do stop rollout safely, but otherwise they aren't going to make a huge difference in this matchup.

What Jiggs wants to do is hit Mario in the air and gimp him. Which can happen fairly easily, since once you hit Mario, he's limited when he's facing forward since his options like N-air, F-air, Cape, fireballs can be beaten by Jiggs's aerials fairly easily. The trick is getting him to waste his midair jump and hitting him out of it, which will be the most effective way Jiggs can kill Mario. This part of the matchup is where Mario can get frustrated, if you play a good spacing game and stay out of his B-air range, baiting him and punishing with your own aerials or Pound. Speaking of Pound, keep in mind he has a rather small shield, which would be to your advantage to poke. Getting Mario offstage with Dash attack is also pretty good.

Otherwise if Mario plays a careful poke game, trades hits when necessary, and never does anything reckless that gets easily baited and doesn't overly rely on shield to defend, the matchup overall goes to him due to his better ability to score the kill.
 

GeneralWoodman

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nairing backwards is a great counter to the fireball approach
A) it cancels fireball
b)allows you to fade away before being punished
c) if mario rolls into you he gets punished and you get a free grab/f-tilt
d) if mario rushes you with dash attack or dash grab he gets hit.
e)This becomes 10 tens better if you nair with the tilt stick

if the fireball approach is obvious....puff can just fair twice out of a short hop by buffering the second fair whether or not the fireball hits.
 

SKidd

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Mario vs Jigglypuff? O gawd...

I think that Jigglypuff shuts mario down where she can, and mario shuts jigglypuff down when he can.
It's pretty much I PWN YOU then you get pwned then you pwn again then you get pwned
then the game ends, and Jigglypuff wins, because she WoP'd mario.
 

thegreatkazoo

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Well, everything that has needed to be said has been.

I like going to BF on the MU, and I would ban Brinstar. It seems even as in Melee, Jiggs magic can happen on there. :rolleyes:

I like using dair when jiggs is on the neutral block or stand position, uair when you're directly above her, and abuse fireballs until I have to use something else.

11:9 in Mario's favor seems dandy.
 

SKidd

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I'd bring Jiggs to ps1. ban dat brinstar for reasons kazoo listed.
On ps1, you still have an edge just in case she gets you off the stage, the stage changes and doesn't let Jiggs do certain things she ***** with (i.e. wall of pain is harder to get due to obstacles, rest can be teched much more easily, etc.) and Mario is still pretty good there.

If I were Jiggs, I would take Mario to RC, and ban bf because Mario ***** there because of platforms mainly.
On RC, Jiggs has no trouble getting around and staying up, she can KO using the stage easily, Mario can't cape as much, rest can kill easier due to the stage, she can force Mario to stay back(Which pressures Mario to watch out for the aerials/smashes/grabs)and that Jiggs seems to **** on RC in general. The only thing she doesn't have is an edge to guard and **** on.
 

Noobicidal

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For the most part, it seems that we're all in agreement for the most part with 45:55 Jigglypuff. I'll allow another day or two of discussion, and we'll move on from there.

Edit: If you want to suggest as to whom we'll discuss next, PLEASE post the suggestion in the Compendium, and not in this particular export.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233873
 

#HBC | J

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haaaaa! I did that before I read in that edit in here. (feels smart lol :laugh:)

Anyways i'd suggest stages that you can be in the air. i.e. RC, Brinstar, Norfair, FO (however isn't this a good Mario stage? =x), Delfino all sound good.
 

Destrawr

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Mario's only real danger to jigglypuff in the air is his bair, if you can get in front it's all fine and dandy.
Pretty much every decent mario is going to resort to fireball spam when they possibly can, so trying to avoid touching the ground AT ALL would be what i do.
Rollout's not gonna work here, fireballs with cancel that, so yeah, stay infront, fair to kill.

Just my two cents. : 3
 

GeneralWoodman

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fully charged rollout from a diagonal will not be cancelled by fireballs, so don't get too confident with a fireball in front of you
 

*JuriHan*

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great write up noob i agree with everything is said in it
 
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