Princess Peach and The Meta Knight Match Up

Actually I think Peach has a better chance of landing a UAir on a platform camping MK than hitting with a turnip or something.

I mean it's beatable, for sure. You just have to be psychic on where he's gonna go lol.

The main problem I see in this matchup, is that you can't approach us safely AT ALL, no matter where we are really (grounded, or in the air, zoning with dair), whereas we can play aggro and the matchup is still in our favor. So even if you manage to be psychic for a moment, we're still the best aggro character in the game and can approach you way easier than you can approach us (I mean it's still in our favor if we play aggro, just not as much, imo).

If you manage to beat my camping and gain a lead, I can still approach you really safely, and get that lead back. You're far more likely to take more damage in your attempt to stop my camping than you actually do to me, making me able to camp you harder.

And if we get a stock lead, you are ****ED.

Hard counter matchup, I think. But I'm bad so my opinion doesn't matter much.

the unable tea table said:

But I'm bad so my opinion doesn't matter much.

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LOL. Don't say that. I bet you're better than you think you are.
The reason I say these things is because I have good eyes. I've been able to catch things others haven't so, for you to rush out from camping into aggro mode isn't something I won't catch. I know how to set up the opponent to where I'm free of hitboxes. If what I do gets punished, then I switch it up the second time I do something. Or I'll make it look like I'm about to do the same thing, and if you go for the punish, I'll switch it and punish back.



Mind games are fun, but saddly I shouldn't even be mentioning this in a matchup thread. It's really difficult to explain any matchup with Peach in it, since she is basically... All mind game.

A lot of this match up is trying to outsmart the MK because Peach has excellent options to punish. Unfortunetly, because playing better is such a huge part of this match up, it means that its a bad (and arguably, if not definitly) her worst match up

Like TUTT said, Peach can easily handle an aggro MK, its when MK starts playing gay that things get really tricky. He can very easily create a wall of aerials and/tilts. Whilst Turnips won't get cancelled out by most of his attacks, they're not exactly the fastest of projectiles and MK's ground speed combined with his Tornado makes up so well for his poor air speed

We have the projectile but ironically, we're the ones who have to approach if MK has the lead because we need to work at close/midquarters to get anything done

Peach just has to play really really smart - I hate discussing match ups like these because there's no definite strategy to deal with MK other than use Fair and Turnips defensively (which is what we do in nearly every match up lol). There are holes and lag in his camp and defense game. Extremely small holes and rather minimal lag with a ******** risk factor but holes nonetheless

Just don't give MK the chance to screw you over. Easier said than done but you really need to be on your toes the entire time

Metatitan said:

If it's the method to beat mk then why hasn't a good mk main who knows the MU lost before? Unless by beat you mean "get ***** less hard".

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I would link you to the hilarious Nicole vs Zozefup video, but it appears to have been taken down.

lol don't mind table, he's just the gayest mk in socal.

he timed out susannayouuu a few weeks ago at bio haha

^Actually I took her to Brinstar first, and got an early kill because of a bob-omb, then proceeded to do nothing but rising dairs on the side platforms, and won because she tried hitting me and got combo'd off the lava. I only took around 50% that match. The match didn't go to time out, it was basically just 6 minutes of me rising down airing, and when the lava would come up I'd pressure with tornado and stuff.

Then it turned out Brinstar was illegal, so we had to replay it and I timed her out on Delfino lol

but, yeah, I hate Peach. She's so dumb. "oooh did I win!?!?!" Yes Peach, you dumb *****, you won, that's why you're on the victory screen. And she has the dumbest combos. This is Brawl, we aren't supposed to combo! Oh and she gets a random bob-omb and gets a range 1 hit KO with it the moment you make a single mistake. It's like ICs on crack, but with ****ing RNG. Oh now you have a random stitch face? Now I have to play keep away to avoid taking ******** damage, which can set me up for free damage. Except unlike camping against ICs, this **** stitchface/bobomb can hit me WHILE I'm in the air! So ********. Oh and now you have some dumb *** lightsaber and a ridiculous disjointed hitbox, that you can throw at me. That's bull ****. Oh look, you have a Mr Saturn and I can't shield while you're in the air for fear of getting my shield broken?

err sorry, I just really hate Peach. I'm timing out every Peach I play in tournament from now on, as punishment for playing the stupid character

No offense to any Peach players. All the Peach's I've met have been cool people, but Peach is just a dumb *** character lol

By the way, don't let MK take you to Brinstar. I can tell you now, RC would be better for you. On the boat, and on the top part where the ceiling is really low and stuff, you can fight him there, and get disgustingly early kills. It's still a bad stage for you in the matchup, but it's better than going to Brinstar; because on Brinstar MK can keep you in his optimal range at pretty much all times.

When I'm dair camping you, I want you to be at this diagonally below and away from me range. I don't want you below me; because there's a chance I can eat an up air from there (it's a fairly low chance, but it's an option, and if you time it right, it CAN work).

On Brinstar because of the platform positions, I can keep you at a diagonally down and away position at pretty much all times.

Or keep banning RC against me so I can take you to Brinstar where I can time you out with ease. I don't mind

LOL. Don't say that. I bet you're better than you think you are.

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lol I can't even make it out of pools unless I have a really easy pool. Maybe I'm better than I think I am, but my results in tournament sure don't show it >_>

Xyless said:

I would link you to the hilarious Nicole vs Zozefup video, but it appears to have been taken down.

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zoze isn't good...
and he didnt know the peach matchup that well at the time.

(sorry zoze if you read this!)

also, @ tea table...you timed out a GIRL? what kind of sick twisted person are you?

Im not even sure what I just read...... that was quite a rant Table. Honestly I feel better at brinstar than Rainbow... but there both bad.

Oh, I'd like to say that as a board, we need to keep this thread bumped constantly. This is THE match-up we need to focus on. If this gets buried, it's proof we're not trying hard enough.

the peaches prob need more vids of themselves playing vs mks too so we can come up w/ stuff.

I have some new stuff against one of our newer break-out MKs. Though self-admittingly, he doesn't fully understand the match-up. He's a capable MK regardless.

Meno (Peach) vs Level Zero (MK)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWVRclDh9Ro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqvpVR9RfkA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Dw6LIg4nTU

The last stock of the last match always makes me.

If DTL ever gets around to recording anything ever, him and me probably have some great stuff. He knows the Peach match-up better than any MK probably, since that's the only match-up we play, haha.

also, @ tea table...you timed out a GIRL? what kind of sick twisted person are you?

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That's how gay I am

Honestly I feel better at brinstar than Rainbow... but there both bad.

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Personal preference does mean a lot; I'm just saying that in this matchup, MKs options are definitely stronger on Brinstar than they are on RC. I have much stronger and more effecient tools to keep you in my ridiculously safe range on Brinstar than I do on RC

What I want to know is... how does Peach safely approach in this matchup? And don't say you'll never approach ever. If I get a lead, you have to approach.

She can't float approach very safely at all, I can shuttle loop that, and even if you manage to get out of the way of the SL, I can cancel>fast fall and be pretty much unpunishable from a float. So, I mean, the risk to reward just doesn't seem to add up on a float approach. It's not like traditional RPS style gameplay. My counter beats your approach, but if you're at the range where I'd shuttle loop you (regardless of if you weave out of the way or not), you can't counter my counter, as far as I know. If you're floating, I'm pretty sure I can grounded shuttle loop, and always be safe.

What do you have to stop me from shuttle looping your float? If you weave out of the way of the shuttle loop, and have a turnip in hand, can you cancel the float, and throw the turnip at me, and would it hit my before I hit the ground? Or would I be able to just Back roll and reset the situation each time consistently? I guess if you could consistently weave out of the way of shuttle loop, and threw a turnip at me, I might eventually lose too much ground, but if you're floating at me, would I be able to jump up and safely tornado to the other side of the stage?

idk to me floating really seems pointless in this matchup. I think I have too many safe options to deal with it for the risk to be worth the tiny chance of a small reward, that I can make up for with one tornado >_> (maybe as a mixup, but mixups generally aren't slower than reaction time lol)

If you jab me at max jab range, and I shield it, frame-wise can I punish it consistently? How much cooldown and shield stun does it have?

Can you punish a nado out of shield without a turnip, consistently? Like if I retreat it?

To stop dair camping, be aware that at my strong range (that diagonal range I've been mentioning), you are NOT going to hit me. You have nothing that hits at that angle. You have to get under me, or hit me horizontally (but with stuff like bair or fair, they're kind of risky because I can avoid that hitbox easier than an up air that's directly below me, because I have multiple jumps, and I can just jump out of the way, whereas I'm more likely to get hit out of my jump with the up air because I can't weave out of the way as quickly). Which is why Brinstar is so ridiculous in this matchup; because the platforms on the side always have me in my strong range, and I can easily go to the other side quickly with a glide or a tornado.

And if I'm dair camping really low (like I'm low to the ground), you can probably safely just jump at me and forward air, because it outranges my dair. I know Lucario's do it a lot and I can't safely space with dair at that range AT ALL (except as a bait to get them to jump at me, where I can get a free nado, or my own fair, etc ); because their forward air will beat it out.

But otherwise I don't see people fighting general dair camping correctly (or maybe the way I'm thinking of isn't even the correct way to fight it, but as an MK main, predicting where I'm going to go, then going under me, and trying something from directly under me seems to be the safest, and strongest method to fight it).

I had more to say, but I gtg. I hope my scrubby advice helps

I'm not in the right frame of mind to respond but a good Peach will never use Float as an approach vs someone like MK because he will just straight out beat her. Its much safer to approach on the ground with a Turnip, try to cause a reaction and then take it from there

Just saying

@Rickerdy: That's good! I'd hope so, it seems like a horrible option.

So if you have a turnip in hand (say we're on FD, even though I'd probably always ban it so that I can platform camp, but for this scenario it'll work), what can you do about my dairing at you from diagonally above you? I'll make a little diagram:

----------------------MK
Here's FD: _____________P____
The P represents Peach, the MK represents... well... MK. Imagine the P is about as tall as Peach and basically represents exactly how tall she is, and the MK is about the width of the dair hitbox (not perfect scale, but you get the idea)

If I'm rising dairing at this position, what options do you have against it? Can you safely do an froll glidetoss up to get below me and throw a turnip at me, or if I'm spacing my dairs at the right position, would it be too risky and cause you to likely get hit by my dair?

And are you able to punish a tornado on shield, with and without a turnip?

Okay, so in two days, I'm going to my first tournament (actually 3rd however, I didn't use my gamertag nor did I sign up for the tournaments because I really wanted to. I did it on a whim, both at a convention~.) Anyway, I'm trying to see if I got this down about the MK match up and the mentality I should have. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

From what I understand:

~Basic stuff (or something like that)~

This match up is not impossible but still very hard (of course). Out playing him and changing/ adapting to a new playstyle than what's expected of Peach is the best chance you have at winning. (post # 3)

Long range= Peach can hold her own, though might not last too long...
Short range= Peach does good here, however it's a bit of a risk for her.
Mid range= MK does very well in mid range combat.
Air range (if that makes sense)= Bad idea. (post # 15)

Shuttle loop is bad for you. Don't get caught up in it (dunno what exactly the shuttle loop looks like so I'll look it up in a bit).

He can shuttleloop towards off the stage and make it back to the ledge. Watch out for this. (post # 19)

MK is better in the air than Peach, so Peach vs MK in the air is a bad idea. Fighting on the ground is better. (post # 4)

If you're recovering from high up, try floating to stall out his jumps. Use airdodge, Dair, Bair or Toad to try to make it out of MK's attacks alive if you've already used you're second jump/float. (post # 17)

Jab = good to use (post # 3)

Don't touch his sheild on the ground unless your attack cancels (I guess for oos upb? Not sure.) (post # 10)

Approaching him isn't a good idea (post # 27)

If he catches a turnip, that's good for you because turnips are pretty bad (stitchface and ditto aside) and he can't use his tilts/smashes until he gets rid of it. (post # 10)

Avoid MK when recovering from Dair. MK waiting in between Dair is bad news. (post # 10)

Dtilt and Ftilt is a good choice against a dash MK. (forgot who said this, but I found this really clever. Gotta find who to give credit to...)

Be defensive with turnips and Fair. (post # 16)

~Stage picking~

Final Destination is an ideal choice for Peach, but more so than not, MK will give it the ban hammer. So instead, if they are legal, try taking him to Green Greens (Ill says this is good for agro Peachs and it's supposively MK's worst stage~. :3) Castle Siege, Smashville, Brinstar, Yoshi's Island, and PictoChat. (post #3, #5, and #10 respectively)

YMMV on Battlefield, Lylat Cruise, Yoshi's Island, Delfino, (Platforms are a + for MK and Delfino gives MK save options. Dunno what those are since I'm a noob, but I'm going to just go with what Ill says~.) Brinstar (Something about sharking and timing out or something like that. Not really sure...), and Green Greens (Nicolio doesn't like stage hazards getting in the way of a fight as do many people :<)

Is this right or did I miss something? I know TUTT and more people said alot of good stuff too...

BTW, this is color coded for your convenience :3

White= Basic stuff that most Peach players would say/know or stuff in general
Magenta= Me
Red= Xeylode
Orange= DarkPeach
Yellow= Nicole
Green= Illimatic
Cyan= KBlissey for realz
Skyblue= Meno
Royal Blue= Metatitan
Blue= Rickity McRickrick
Purple= Razmakazi

Sorry if I didn't add your name/gave you credit or whatever. ;~;

Oh right. Before I forget...

Illmatic. said:

This matchup is a game of cat and mouse.
This matchup is a game of cat and mouse.
This matchup is a game of cat and mouse.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

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Sigged. XD

Air range (if that makes sense)= Bad idea. (post # 15)

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Actually, I'd say if both characters are in the air, Peach can hold her own, due to faster air speed, moderately good range (I think her fair like trades with ours, and does more damage), etc.

It's when I'm on the ground, and you're in the air (or I'm in very specific spots in the air) that it's very bad for you.

Shuttle loop is bad for you. Don't get caught up in it (dunno what exactly the shuttle loop looks like so I'll look it up in a bit).

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Shuttle loop is MKs up B.

If you're going to a tourney this weekend, you'll probably be safe with playing really campy against the MK. Most MKs play somewhat aggro (by that I mean most don't have the patience to never approach ever).

Oh and about your stages thing. Don't ever ****ing CP MK to Brinstar lmao. This matchup is absolutely ****ing ridiculous on Brinstar. I swear it's atleast 75-25 MKs favor there. I'd go so far as to say that it's essentially unwinnable on Brinstar if the MK is willing to NEVER approach unless there is lava coming up (and if lava is coming up, he can pressure you soooo hard and be ridiculously safe at the same time). The MK can really only get hit if he makes a mistake on that stage, whereas he can get atleast one free hit pretty much every time the lava comes up, and due to the positioning of the platforms, he can keep you at his strong spot at all times.

Imo Battlefield is actually not a bad stage for Peach in this matchup. I think Castle Seige could possibly be good for this matchup, but MK can camp the first and second transformations pretty hard. PS1 and 2 (PS2 should be legal, but TOs usually ban it for no reason >_>) I think would probably be okay, too.

MK can camp you harder on SV than on BF. Oh I landed a tornado? Good luck reaching me while I'm under the stage 90% of the time, and off stage on a platform in my strong range the other 10% of the time from scrooging.

Hell I'd say due to scrooging, SV is a good counterpick stage for MK in this matchup.

I think Green Greens is good for you in this matchup, atleast against me. I think MK is pretty good here, but Peach is, too, and the low *** ceiling helps her. And it's an absolute ***** to approach her. idk I hate this stage. I imagine if you're used to playing here, and most MKs haven't played here a lot. So if you're playing with MLG rules, and he decides not to ban Green Greens, it might be a good counterpick stage for you.

I haven't played any Peach's on Norfair, but I imagine it's pretty bad for her. I mean some characters can camp the middle, and attack MK when lava appears from the sides, but idk how well Peach would do at this.

And MK could probably camp the middle with uairs REALLY hard, too (I love how MK can camp Peach from all directions. <3 Meta Knight).

But, yeah, you'll probably want to ban Brinstar against MK. Maybe RC if you're more comfortable on Brinstar than on RC, and if the MK is somewhat aggro, but hell aggro MK is still really good on Brinstar.

Delfino is really good for MK, too. I can shark you here, and camp you really hard, as well. So I can be really safe and aggro by sharking you, and when I get a sizable lead I can dair camp you hard.

So with MLG rules, if I were you (and if you were playing a really gay MK. If you're playing an aggro MK, you might want to change it up, but I'm not really thinking about if the MK is willing to approach, since playing reaaaaally gay has gotten me more success and seems safer) first match I'd strike Delfino and SV for sure, and maybe Halberd (sure the ceiling is low which would get you earlier kills, but what does a low ceiling matter if you can't hit me due to me camping half the time, and sharking you the other half lol).

After that I'd say it's probably just personal preference.

And if you win, ban Brinstar, RC, or Norfair (imo you should ban Brinstar against a campy MK. I'd say it's waaaaaaaay worse for you, but w/e your choice, Norfair and RC are bad for you, too), or maybe even SV (but I'd ban Brinstar, RC, or Norfair before SV, and you probably have more experience on SV, too).

If he wins, he'll probably ban FD. PS1, BF, Green Greens is good if it's legal, and FD are probably your best CPs.

Not much more to say about stages than that

I'm not going to offer much input because I'm terribad (:D) but I find it very easy to land usmashes on MKs as a punish. Many mistakes can be punished with a usmash, I land them all the time.

...poof.

Thanks Tea Table for clearing alot of things up concerning stage picking.
(I still love Brinstar)

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You might love it, until you play a really gay MK.

Then you'll be sad that you wasted 8 minutes of your life

I just jab a lot, ready my sdi to nair mk, dair mk when he airdodges/lands, turnip camp a LOT for good turnips, and do retreating fairs to jab. Grounded shuttle loop just really screws up everything Peach has. You just have to force him to approach and pick him apart slowly. I think Mk beats every character in the game, but I think Peach does decent against him.... Dtilt is really good in this mu too. Outranges mk's ftilt (credit to praxis) and I'll usually use the slide away frames to run away and freepull a turnip. Downthrow and backthrow are the only throws that should be used imo. Downthrow to get a utilt and backthrow to run away and freepull a turnip. Also I randomly will full jump at a mk with turnip in hand (with good space between you and the mk), throw the turnip backward (so that your back is towards mk) and fall with a nair. It can catch mks dash attack.. Just freepull away after. Seriously all peachs need to learn how to free pull consistently.

He actually can't camp that well there, he can just play super aggressively (without precaution).

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Really? What options does Peach have to stop me from dair camping on the left and right platforms?

Not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious in case there was something I haven't seen Peach's do to me, or that I'm forgetting...

Dtilt is really good in this mu too. Outranges mk's ftilt (credit to praxis) and I'll usually use the slide away frames to run away and freepull a turnip. Loooool

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WHAT!?

Seriously? Peach's Dtilt outranges MK's Ftilt?

That's crazy

I'm testing it right now and it's really hard to judge they seem about equal to me.. I'm just going by what Praxis told me. Regardless this doesn't mean dtilt should be used all the time. It still has a good bit of startup time. It hits muchhh further than most people think though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kFUs3MmH3o

@ :20 look verrrry carefully.

Thanks alot with the stage input, TUTT! It helps alot. I used to think that the only way to play Brawl was on either FD, PC, or SV. So when I learned about the other stages and CPs, I just facepalmed. So yeah, this weekend is going to be the first time I'm going to go to take a tournament seriously and I wanna be ready with dem basics. ^^;

@Ill: Thank you! I feel bad that I can't contribute much to this MU since I'm a newb and stuff so the least I can do is take everyone else's advice and do my best. :3

I highly enjoyed how I was assigned my favorite color in Mika's summary.

Supermodel From Paris said:

I'm not going to offer much input because I'm terribad (:D) but I find it very easy to land usmashes on MKs as a punish. Many mistakes can be punished with a usmash, I land them all the time.

...poof.

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You.

Elaborate.

Especially since I'm one of your closet fanboys. I'M LEARNING TURNIP DASHING.

Lee Martin said:

I just jab a lot, ready my sdi to nair mk, dair mk when he airdodges/lands, turnip camp a LOT for good turnips, and do retreating fairs to jab. Grounded shuttle loop just really screws up everything Peach has. You just have to force him to approach and pick him apart slowly. I think Mk beats every character in the game, but I think Peach does decent against him.... Dtilt is really good in this mu too. Outranges mk's ftilt (credit to praxis) and I'll usually use the slide away frames to run away and freepull a turnip. Downthrow and backthrow are the only throws that should be used imo. Downthrow to get a utilt and backthrow to run away and freepull a turnip. Also I randomly will full jump at a mk with turnip in hand (with good space between you and the mk), throw the turnip backward (so that your back is towards mk) and fall with a nair. It can catch mks dash attack.. Just freepull away after. Seriously all peachs need to learn how to free pull consistently.

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boo~ i told prax about the dtilt thing T_T

and that last sentence...my friend keeps trying to stress to me how important it is to learn it lol. i guess i'll take your word for it too haha.

i don't quite understand why u need to throw the turnip backwards after your full hop towards mk though. cud u explain that one?

Lol. Its just a random mixup i do. Probably not THAT good but I like it bc i can hit with the backside of nair. plus sometimes i can float away and if they try to punish me i just double bair them :D

is freepulling bonewalking or is it something different? and then...which one is better? freepulling doesn't seem to go all that far, but maybe i'm wrong.

you playing any peach in your serious tourney matches at apex, lee?

Look who finally showed up in the Peach threads mister Martin. Me and hiROI miss yah.

Nicole said:

is freepulling bonewalking or is it something different? and then...which one is better? freepulling doesn't seem to go all that far, but maybe i'm wrong.

you playing any peach in your serious tourney matches at apex, lee?

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haha maybeee. I loveee her against wario, ics, olimar.... I always get nervous and my peach is out of practice bc ill practice my mk SOOOO much for singles.. Peach is my fav vid game character of all time though.. <3

KBizzle said:

Freepulling is different from bonewalking. It gives her a method of immediate movement while pulling a turnip from a standstill position. It's differs from BW in that it doesn't require a foxtrot to initiate, and you can go backwards with it. Basically "Meno in a can".

^^this.

Question: What were the correct inputs for freepulling again (excluding the B-stick method)?

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I looked up a video to learn how to do it. loool. Its really aggravating to learn consistently.

Pharaoh.DsY Kyon said:

Look who finally showed up in the Peach threads mister Martin. Me and hiROI miss yah.

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I miss you guys too. Peach is sex.

Lee Martin said:

haha maybeee. I loveee her against wario, ics, olimar.... I always get nervous and my peach is out of practice bc ill practice my mk SOOOO much for singles.. Peach is my fav vid game character of all time though.. <3

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Well look who suddenly got more awesome than they already are.

Lee Martin said:

I looked up a video to learn how to do it. loool. Its really aggravating to learn consistently.

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Hell yeah it is, but I need to get it down if I want to actually progress against MK. It's really hard for him to gay Peach while she pulls turnips if she's constantly moving.

Wow I can't believe I haven't noticed thread yet D: I think I can input a little bit for this matchup. Even though I deal with countless of wifi MKs who abuse lag, I do play my brother offline a lot, and he mains MK (and he's really good, too O_O )

Overview: MK vs Peach is probably Peach's hardest matchup. MK, overall, beats Peach in this matchup. He can run away, play really aggressively, bait and punish, etc. Peach, on the otherhand, is restricted in move choice and mobility. I've heard several different opinions on playstyles, but I choose to camp and stay on the ground as much as possible.

Styles Of Play:
~ Aggressive: I used to be an aggro Peach, but matchup experience and playing a variety of people has changed my ways. Aggressive Peach still works in some situations, though. MK is a very difficult matchup because he can react really quickly to anything Peach does. He is just naturally faster. If you are going to play an aggressive Peach, you have to make sure you cover all of MK's defense options. These include poweshield into: nair, shuttle loop, grab, etc, shuttle loop, fair, ftilt, etc etc etc. A good thing that you can always do is have a turnip ready. With a turnip, MK has to be wary of the turnip and your incoming attack. It limits his options. Then, if you want to continue with the approach, I'd say the average approach is a fair or a float dair or something. Remember to keep his options covered: float behind him after the dair to avoid the shielded shuttle loop, jab after your fair to stop the grab, etc. Also, remember to mix up whatever you do. If MK picks up on your bad habits, he will destroy you. That's why I don't like aggressive peach. MK can do whatever he wants if he gets even a whiff of what you're planning to do. Do not be predictable! Aggressive peach can be awesome, but it is extremely dangerous.

~Defensive: My style of play. This works well for me, but it involves a lot of patience to pull off. Stay on the ground, use lots and lots and lots of turnips, and utilize all, I repeat, all of your moves. Bait and punish, jab grab, dash attack. Jeez, I feel like I should bold this entire paragraph xD. Decay destroys peach, so you want to save your killing moves. Jab, bash, dash attack, nair, etc refresh your moves. Try not to jump, or you risk being tornadoed. Dtilt slide for spacing, and try not to get grabbed. Shield tornado! Make sure you always have a healthy shield, because you need it. MK has 2 main options when he tornados you: Stay on top of Peach's shield until it runs out, or move away before it finishes. You have to predict what he'll do, and punish. It's best to have a turnip ready so that you can just glide toss towards him. In the match, don't get mad. Just shake it off and continue. Defensive Peach can be awesome, but you need patience.

Killing:
Killing MK can be a pain. Even though he's light, getting that sweet spot can be extremely tough. I've always thought that fair, fsmash, and usmash are her main killing moves, but are somewhat predictable. Any forces usmashes are LOVED, but these moves can leave you pretty open. Besides those three, I like nair, bair, uair, and ftilt. Depending on your style, nair and bair can be fresh or really decayed. They take more percent to get the kill, but they're reliable. I don't use uair much except for juggling, so it's usually fresh for me. It's awesome to catch MK off guard with an uair. Anf ftilt is that WTF kill that seems to work for me at like 170% (unless you severely decay it/use it frequently, coughcoughMenocough xD)

Stages:
~Neutrals: The 6 neutrals I've seen are FD, SV, BF, PS1, YI, and Lylat. My favorite stage is actually Yoshi's against MK. My brother always says that that's his least favorite stage, so naturally I love it :D The problem is that MK can get early shuttle loop kills off the sides. Besides YI, FD is also good, but its often banned/struck. SV is the generic stage, and it can go either way. BF is decent. You can camp under the platforms, but MK can move around a lot. I've never liked PS1, but it can be pretty good. You can get early uair/utilt/usmash kills, and landing that grab release thing on the tree can be pretty nice.

~CP's: Blegh. MK is like broken on every CP xD If you don't like the list of CP's, then just choose a neutral. I usually go with YI or FD, but I actually do keep RC and Brinstar as backups. I know they are amazing for MK, but if you play super super super campy, then RC can be pretty good, and if you avoid sharking/shuttle loop kills, then Brinstar is decent. Japes is also not bad. Everyone has their own CP, so it's probably a good idea to keep it as a backup.

Last comments: I love and hate this matchup at the same time. It's difficult, it keeps you on your feet, and it can be fun. If you can a stock lead, you have a HUGE advantage. Keep your cool, focus, and you can win this matchup

KBizzle said:

Freepulling is different from bonewalking. It gives her a method of immediate movement while pulling a turnip from a standstill position. It's differs from BW in that it doesn't require a foxtrot to initiate, and you can go backwards with it. Basically "Meno in a can".

Question: What were the correct inputs for freepulling again (excluding the B-stick method)?

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Here's the thread for freepulling!
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=250686

@Lee: I don't think I can claim the title you gave me of 'Best Hair' from MLG. I cut my hair short

And for the MK MU, I feel that it is so aggravating. Every aspect of the MU for me is just difficult, except poking his shield. When playing against a MK while they have high percent and a stock lead I almost find it impossible for them to die, unless they make a mistake. When I had to play M2K at MLG, even though I was so emotionally drained just because of my opponent, I was holding my own until the moment I lost my stock. Even though he had high percent, MK can become so evasive and safe that I find Peach taking damage trying to make the MK make a mistake. Same thing happened in our second match. I had like a 10% lead in our first stock but the moment I lost that stock before he lost his, I kept on building up damage. My advice is to always, always, under any circumstance to take out his first stock first. If not, this match up became so much more diffiicult! And I find Jab to Bonewalking the opposite direction a nice shennanigan. And its good to mix up and add some aggression to the MU since we have float and can maximize our spacing. Also, MKs tend to shuttle loop from the ledge. If this becomes a habit of theirs, you can shield it and nair/bair them while they glide towards you or if they fast fall it.

We need some more MKs to discuss!

the unable tea table said:

@Rickerdy: That's good! I'd hope so, it seems like a horrible option.

So if you have a turnip in hand (say we're on FD, even though I'd probably always ban it so that I can platform camp, but for this scenario it'll work), what can you do about my dairing at you from diagonally above you? I'll make a little diagram:

----------------------MK
Here's FD: _____________P____
The P represents Peach, the MK represents... well... MK. Imagine the P is about as tall as Peach and basically represents exactly how tall she is, and the MK is about the width of the dair hitbox (not perfect scale, but you get the idea)

If I'm rising dairing at this position, what options do you have against it? Can you safely do an froll glidetoss up to get below me and throw a turnip at me, or if I'm spacing my dairs at the right position, would it be too risky and cause you to likely get hit by my dair?

And are you able to punish a tornado on shield, with and without a turnip?

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If Peach has a Turnip in hand, she might be able to punish a Dair on her shield by glide tossing it up. It would really depend if MK hit her sheild infront or behind her because her backwards glide toss is awful lol. Although if the Dair is perfectly spaced and MK moves away, the Turnip might not reach

If MK moves away whilst using Tornado because Peach shields...again it depends how far away he moves. Turnips aren't too fast. If you stop really close then its easy (for anyone really) to drop their shield and hit/grab you. Tbh, I'd be glad if MK zoomed as far away from me as possible if I didn't have a Turnip because it would give me some precious time to safely get a Turnip


Can we clarify here - are we talking about free pulling or Bone Walking? There seems to be a bit of confusion :x
Doing Bone Walking consistantly isn't as hard as doing freepulling consistantly with normal controls. Both help us be more evasive but the biggest problem with free pulling is that in order to get it right all the time, you need to B Stick which means you can't SDI or Glide Toss effectivly. You can do free pulling with normal controls but I for one don't want to accidently fire a Peach Bomber straight at MK or do a turnaround Toad every now and then because at some point, it'll happen :/

Rickerdy-doo-da-day said:

you need to B Stick which means you can't Glide Toss effectivly.

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Omg, stop spreading your LIES.

You can glidetoss 100% effectively without any hindrance at all. I'm capable of every single one (backward, reverse, upward, downward lol, forward) and can do so consistently.

In my opinion, full turnip mobility (bonewalking + free pulling + ledge canceling + glidetossing + and soon to be introduced, turnip dashing) results in a completely solid 40:60 match-up. I've been using those tools since 2008, and I think that's why I've always had a better opinion of the MK match-up. You don't give him a chance to catch you in his ****, meanwhile you get immediate access to your best asset: toynups.

MenoUnderwater said:

Omg, stop spreading your LIES.

You can glidetoss 100% effectively without any hindrance at all. I'm capable of every single one (backward, reverse, upward, downward lol, forward) and can do so consistently.

In my opinion, full turnip mobility (bonewalking + free pulling + ledge canceling + glidetossing + and soon to be introduced, turnip dashing) results in a completely solid 40:60 match-up. I've been using those tools since 2008, and I think that's why I've always had a better opinion of the MK match-up. You don't give him a chance to catch you in his ****, meanwhile you get immediate access to your best asset: toynups.

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You can Bone Walk/Free Pull/Ledge cancel pull effectivly without the B Stick, its just much harder and gives you a lot more room for error
You can space/Glide toss/Stutter Step/SDI (oh wait you can't ) effectivly without the C Stick, its just much harder and gives you a lot more room for error
Out of the two, I prefer the latter. Glide tossing is the biggest worry of mine in the MK match up and I'm still not massively convinced about free pulling because unless someone massively commits to an attack (which in MK's case, is very rarely) they can spot the Turnip pull and shield/roll away

Perhaps its time I gave B Sticking another try because the times I've tried using it, I've really felt limited by not having the options the C Stick provides you with

And whats Turnip Dashing?

the unable tea table said:

^Actually I took her to Brinstar first, and got an early kill because of a bob-omb, then proceeded to do nothing but rising dairs on the side platforms, and won because she tried hitting me and got combo'd off the lava. I only took around 50% that match. The match didn't go to time out, it was basically just 6 minutes of me rising down airing, and when the lava would come up I'd pressure with tornado and stuff.

Then it turned out Brinstar was illegal, so we had to replay it and I timed her out on Delfino lol

but, yeah, I hate Peach. She's so dumb. "oooh did I win!?!?!" Yes Peach, you dumb *****, you won, that's why you're on the victory screen. And she has the dumbest combos. This is Brawl, we aren't supposed to combo! Oh and she gets a random bob-omb and gets a range 1 hit KO with it the moment you make a single mistake. It's like ICs on crack, but with ****ing RNG. Oh now you have a random stitch face? Now I have to play keep away to avoid taking ******** damage, which can set me up for free damage. Except unlike camping against ICs, this **** stitchface/bobomb can hit me WHILE I'm in the air! So ********. Oh and now you have some dumb *** lightsaber and a ridiculous disjointed hitbox, that you can throw at me. That's bull ****. Oh look, you have a Mr Saturn and I can't shield while you're in the air for fear of getting my shield broken?

err sorry, I just really hate Peach. I'm timing out every Peach I play in tournament from now on, as punishment for playing the stupid character

No offense to any Peach players. All the Peach's I've met have been cool people, but Peach is just a dumb *** character lol

By the way, don't let MK take you to Brinstar. I can tell you now, RC would be better for you. On the boat, and on the top part where the ceiling is really low and stuff, you can fight him there, and get disgustingly early kills. It's still a bad stage for you in the matchup, but it's better than going to Brinstar; because on Brinstar MK can keep you in his optimal range at pretty much all times.

When I'm dair camping you, I want you to be at this diagonally below and away from me range. I don't want you below me; because there's a chance I can eat an up air from there (it's a fairly low chance, but it's an option, and if you time it right, it CAN work).

On Brinstar because of the platform positions, I can keep you at a diagonally down and away position at pretty much all times.

Or keep banning RC against me so I can take you to Brinstar where I can time you out with ease. I don't mind
lol I can't even make it out of pools unless I have a really easy pool. Maybe I'm better than I think I am, but my results in tournament sure don't show it >_>

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What's your AIM? We can talk about losing to Peach and being bad.

Pharaoh.DsY Kyon said:

Im not even sure what I just read...... that was quite a rant Table. Honestly I feel better at brinstar than Rainbow... but there both bad.

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It has been far too long since you've played me on Brinstar.