[#03] Diddy Kong MU Discussion Thread 2010

Discuss...

I don't have that much experience Vs Diddy.

We need Fonz for this Discussion.

I guess nobody really has experience in this mu? :D

Oh I forgot aboot this Match-up thread.

Diddy for me is easy to handle, Ganon ability to use Diddy's Nanerz effectively is something that only comes from experience. Most Diddy's try to Glide Toss forward to grab, I powershield the nanerz to dtilt/sideB/SH dair/Dash attack or jump to z catch the naner. Mixing up all those options and getting control over the Nanerz will be your goal.

I can't really generalize what to do when you have naner control as your options are very circumstancial. But if you get a choke then you're in complete control. When you have a naner while choking them, most of the time they will only roll away or get-up attack. If you have a lead then you can humiliate them by getting in two or three chokes before Naner to Fsmash them.

Once you have them offstage you can tipman them easily out of their double jump or UpB, just be careful with the timing. The last thing we need is them getting you with a SideB jump.

Z1GMA said:

I don't have that much experience Vs Diddy.

We need Fonz for this Discussion.

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I'm with you on this one. Hopefully he name searches.

Sovereign said:

I'm with you on this one. Hopefully he name searches.

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How do you namesearch anyway?

EDIT:

Supreme Dirt said:

Remember that there are some matchups where we might ban one of our CPs, such as Norfair against a Diddy.

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It'd be great if you could give us some more info on Diddy,
and stages to pick Vs him.

Why don't you wanna take him to Norfair?

I don't like this matchup. On wifi.

Although item tossing shenanigans are very fun in general.

Z1GMA said:

How do you namesearch anyway?

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Type your name into the Search bar. If you notice your name in an unfamiliar thread, chances are that either someone's talking about you, or you posted in it ages ago without realizing it.

Diddy is great on Norfair. Just ask AlphaZealot for details.

*EDIT* Definitely helps us more than Diddy, but still helps Diddy quite a bit.

I think Diddy is fun.
But theres not that much to read about it.
Just learn it by playing it. And banana's are fun. Just hope you get the standard autopilot Diddy's, and you will be able to read them easily.

I think ths MU is very hard. Almos unwinnable.

Ganon's first priority here is to take control of both bananas. You can't go there and mess around in the ground. You'll get trip'd, comboed and, at high %s, killed with a fresh DSmash. Use Thunderstorming (this thing is just too good in this MU) and ZCatch to get the bananas and keep them behind you. You can also use them for Banana Choking, but I guarantee you: Diddys don't like being Gerudo-ed. They'll do what they can to avoid it. Don't depend on Banana Choking for anything. But, if you can hit it, MURDER WITH PLEASURE!

If you can avoid the banana combos and take them from Diddy, the rest is very easy. I think this MU is very hard because doing so is almost impossible against someone that know what is doing.

If you can take Diddy offstage, gimping with reverse UAir -> Edgehog is the most secure option, but watch out for diddy SideB's "spike". I get hit by it now and then and it's too **** frustrating. >.< Same goes for UpBs explosion spike.

C.pick in BF or Brinstar. If you're confident, courageous and drunk, cpick Rainbow Cruise. Pirate Ship is also good if it's avaible.

Ban FD at all cost. SV and Pictochat are the other options for banning.

70:30~80:20 Diddy.

Just found a gem on the Olimar boards. Switch your R button to attack, NOW.

If you hold the Attack button after picking up an item, you can still use smash moves. If I understand correctly, if we set R to attack, we can do everything except Grab them while holding a nanner.

What does this mean? One thing this could mean is that Diddy has only one Nanner, unless he makes you drop it by hitting you. Optimally, this means DAir -> throw down nanner -> DAir. Don't have access to my Wii or I'd test just what this means.

I've had R set to attack ever since I picked up Sheik.

Hahaha no worries guys I still troll these boards! I appreciate the mention I will post my thoughts on the Diddy MU if you would like, but it probably won't be until later tonight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shyqbz60aZw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylX5FvOyVQo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVkeyGyMES4

You can also refer to these. They are matches between myself and AlphaZealot about 10 months ago, but you can see some of the options Ganon has in the MU. I also have a $5 MM Vs. ADHD from pound I never uploaded.

Ok heres my input on the MU. I have learned a lot as well from those matches so don't follow everything you see in those old matches.

First off you have to understand this MU is one you absolutely have to keep your head in. Diddy is going to rack a LOT of damage quickly and it's going to be frustrating, but you have to keep playing defensively do NOT start playing aggro against Diddy.

Bananas:
Don't throw them at Diddy unless he is holding one himself. Ideal times to throw them are when he is throwing the one he has, or when he is off the map.
Wizkick flies over bananas on the ground and can catch Diddy off guard if they aren't paying attention.
Dair is your friend. Learn to Powershield Bananas as much as possible or Dair catch them.
When throwing Bananas back at Diddy kong you should have only two objectives on your mind. Stop his attack or What are you going to do to follow up after the Banana trips. The banana hitting diddy is not good damage and it's a waste if you don't follow it up. Look at the trip as after a Gerudo he has the same options. If you also use it to stop Diddy's rush it's good.

Map Control:
Stages to ban is Final Destination EVERY TIME. If you don't ban this stage good Diddy kong's will crush you. YOU NEED a stage to retreat to a platform when either A. your shield gets low or B. getting back on the map after being forced off. Norfair is a fine stage against Diddy Don't let AZ tell you differently. Thanks to Clai our ledge Planking ***** him and so does our Uair. Control the bottom platform and you win. I wouldn't recommend it as a counterpick because it gives Diddy kong to many options to recover. My favorite stage is Battlefield against Diddy.
In the middle of the stage if you grab Diddy throw him Up because Diddy is weak when we are underneath him and our Uair is ****. if on the sides throw him off for possible gimps.

You have to chase Diddy off the map for gimps. most likely they will try to Side B on to the ledge or whatever. Time your ledge grab to make him miss the ledge and fall and Uair him. also go for the tipmans they **** his recovery. Make sure you come down on top of him or he will catch you with the monkey flip and most likely gimp you.

Stopping Banana Assualts:
PS them then either A. jump and catch them B. Dair because you expect the Diddy to rush in (He will most likely throw the 2nd banana and go for a grab or Dash attack. Dair grabs the banana and hits Diddy.) C. Better Diddys will Fair you after they see you shield the first Banana if they don't have the 2nd in their Hand. Just roll away after PSing the first Banana or Wait and Shield the Fair then DA to pick up the Banana and possibly hit Diddy depending on their spacing. (This is risky sometimes so judge accordingly)
D. some Diddys might just stand there if the Banana doesn't hit. So if they do this grab the Banana after the PS and just wait for your opportunity.

Double Banana Setup:
Banana in front of Diddy, he has one in hand and is shooting peanuts. slowly move in wait for the first throw shield it then IDA, you pick up the grounded Banana and can hit Diddy. If he shields it quickly buffer a roll away or a shield.

What to do with Banana's:
Throw them up or to force them into certain areas. Use Ganon's Glidetoss its very good. Buffer Ftilts if they Trip or Gerudo or grabs if they shield. put them on platforms and use them as bait, our Bair and Uair **** so use them as punishers.

Edge Guarding:
Diddys Options for the most part:
Fair....Wall hop Banana or Bair....Wall hop Monkey flip...the rest is basics.
Dont contest the fair unless your not afraid to take a hit and are willing to risk the PS attempt for possible punishment. Ftilt WILL trade hits if spaced right.
Wall hop Banana or Bair. The bair shouldn't hit it's just a spacing move. The banana you MUST grab immediately and get it into your possession. Throw it up and resume the edge guard. The monkey flip is tough since he can grab or attack out of it and the attack has great priority. I suggest space a Bair or try to predict what he will do Shield the attack or Dodge the grab and try to punish.

When tripped I usually just do the regular get up. its fast.

Things to look out for:
Bair out of shield. it's quick and if they PS the Dair it can hit.
Diddy using Fair to pick up Banana's. It catches everyone off guard sometimes.
Instant tosses. If you don't know what this is go look it up. it's essential and you can abuse it too.
Avoid Spot Dodging at mid-high percents an early gimp or death because of bad DI can really hurt.
Dont PS the banana and not get out of the way. it will fall and trip you lol.

Recovering:
Banana's can knock you out of your jump be careful when recovering low.
Uair ***** anything Diddy will do to try and Gimp you.
Mix it up, don't always recover low.
AVOID air dodging on the map when he has a banana in his hand. he will just Glidetoss back to a smash attack.

ways to Kill:
Dair, Uair, and DA are your best bets. Go for the gimps. you must attack him off the map.

Your percentage of Death should be around the 180's because a lot of times Diddy will stale his smashes after a banana hit, with good DI you should live pretty high. Abuse this ability and make sure you kill Diddy before he gets above 120%. almost anything kills him at this percentage. Its not always going to happen but that's the Ideal death percent.

This is all I can think of currently. If I think of more I will add it, if it's wrong or you disagree feel free to post and I will discuss it with anyone. I think the MU is 55:45 Maybe 60:40 Diddy.

So if played right by Ganon, this is a near even MU? That's pretty interesting. I'll have to sit down with Count for a few hours and try this, and see how it goes.

It seems that Diddy is one of those few tops who can't effectively pressure you on the fly when you're recovering. Nanners take at least 1.5 seconds to set-up, and peanuts don't have the stopping power to keep Ganondorf off unless they're charged beyond halfway. This means that unless the Diddy has set-up a nanner or two before hand for the guard, and if his Smash doesn't KO Ganon then we have a decent chance to recover. Am I correct in that assumption or no?

Also, at what point does Diddy KO Ganondorf with U-Smash, and vice versa?

@itemfinder - you should never die to the Usmash. and really you won't hit Diddy with a lot of Usmashes either. Dair can kill at 100 fresh on like BF maybe 110 I havent checked it recently. just depends on DI.

Also yes we shouldn't get gimped by Diddy kong unless we make some kind of Error. peanuts aren't a threat off the map, and Naners shouldn't gimp you. Also don't be afraid to use your jump early to recover high, recovering high can be very beneficial because it can avoid being edge guarded, just mix up your DI so your landing isn't easily read.

Getting back on the map when Diddy has two banana's:
Most likely he will have one in his hand and one on the ground at about sweep distance (Just outside grab range from the ledge). and shoot peanuts or throw the banana's up forcing you to get on the map from the ground or jump and get hit by a banana. The place he puts the banana is obviously somewhere he doesn't want you to be....they will most likely try to cover the ground options with Banana's and cover the air with his aerials because they want the KO. Diddy's biggest issue is KO, and us recovering to the stage is one of his easiest ways to force a KO.

Its really difficult to explain how to get back on because every player is different and understanding their level of play and their mind games is usually decided when Im playing them. but I will take a wild stab and give you some of my thoughts.

If Diddy is throwing the Banana's up, (Both of them) then he is looking for the ground option meaning a smash attack. Jumping up into the banana doesn't seem safe either, but taking a 2% banana hit compared to a possible KO move then take the banana hit. Ledge hop to the banana try to Z grab it and retreat to the ledge again or see if you can get on the stage somehow. (This is why you need Platforms).
Most diddys will just leave one on the ground one in hand and shoot peanuts. if they do this time your ledge hop to a platform in between peanut shots. if he has a banana in hand it means he cant do an aerial until he gets rid of the banana.

Just understand if he has a banana in hand he has to throw it before doing an attack. peanuts don't do **** except piss you off, and the Banana's look scary but they can't kill you in the air, but Diddy can.

Sorry if it seems stupid but its hard to explain recovering on the map, because so many players edge guard differently. Don't be afraid to plank the Diddy a bit and frustrate him into messing up his traps. There is a difference between Planking and trying to recover. Don't force the recover.

@Sovereign - Im not sure how exactly even it is, but I do know Ganon can win this MU. Im not sure if I have ever beat Count Ganon Vs Diddy, but I think we have only played it a few times. and it was a long time ago. But I have never lost to him in tournament Lucario Vs. Diddy =P but we also havent played that in a while lol.

This is still good info. I can visualize all the scenarios and make out what should be done in those scenarios after being told so. Hopefully, I can pull a win from this.

To here a MU is winnable for Ganon is quite rare, but I know there are some who doubt that.

Count sure is a good Diddy Kong. I played him on the ladder and he won 2-1.

ALSO VERY IMPORTANT

Do not try to grab diddy kong after he does a falling Fair YOU CAN"T GRAB HIM.

As seen in this video at 1:18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylX5FvOyVQo