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Smash Hero
After initially deciding to post this in the social, I then chose to make a new thread for it since there's a lot of information contained in it and hopefully discussion will arise from (and social should at least be kinda social 
) And I dropped my usual text color to make this easier to read (sorry if you have some weird, exclusive skin).
Now down to business.
When I made my post earlier today, I forgot to mention that a tether follow up is really only for when opponents DI away; uair is always better if they're close enough However, a lot of times they're too far away (darn SDI), so tether comes in handy.
Even so, what's stopping you from throwing out a tether after you uair? In some cases it might not be safe, but it can be a lot of times. This is another thing I've been doing lately, especially on DDD - he's such a huge target that it's almost impossible to miss, and when used properly it racks damage FAST. So this is why I created this thread - to discuss when and when not to use tether after a throw combo.
Let's do some damage comparison. Pikmin do different damamge percentages of course, and though I don't think it's necessary to go that in depth on each pikmin possibility, I still wanted a good idea of things; as such, I did each string several times with different pikmin orders. Also, just to keep things even, I tested these using combinations of only red, yellow, and blue pikmin due the properties surrounding white and purple dthrows and the low damage output of white attacks (lol white attacks
). This will suffice just to let us compare combo/string damage potentials. Also, I tested these in Training, so move staling will apply to some of these, leading to lower damage output and, in some cases, a higher chance of comboability.
Dthrow > Fair = ~20-25%
---The basic combo, and usually a result of people getting out of the way of a regrab if you're going for it. Certainly nothing to laugh at; it does a decent amount of damage for something that's so guaranteed.
Dthrow > Usmash > Uair = ~39-48%
---HUGE damage racker - if you're able to pull this off it's amazing, as you all already know. It can also be DIed away from by smaller and lighter characters though, as you already know as well. It also has a damage output to quite similar to the regrab shanigans you can pull on someone at 0% (more on that later).
Dthrow > Usmash > Tether = ~28-33%
---Baasically, this is doing more damage than dthrow>fair, but less than this same string ending with a Uair. If you know someone is going to DI far enough out of your grab range if you try to go for a fair>regrab (perhaps they did it on an earlier stock) you should go for the usmash. (Unless you've got purples to throw, which opens up so many more grab opportunities, <3 Rich :D ) If after the Usmash you see they've DIed too far to be hit with uair, just go for the tether - it's more damage than you would do with a whiffed uair and many people will not expect it (at least not right now).
Dthrow > Usmash > Usmash = ~33-39%
---This works on some of the heavies, but only if they DI improperly, or they DI close enough for you to get in a second hyphen smash. Not seen much, but I figured I'd put it on here anyways. Succeptible to move staling obviously (not sure how much moves stale or else I'd just change the percentages).
Dthrow > Fair > Grab > Dthrow > Fair = ~42-48%
---Like Stealth pointed out, people can SDI the fair to get out of regrab distance, and like Fino pointed out a lot of people are just jumping now (which can be exploited, but we're talking about strings atm); however, if it works on someone then this is great. Fair stales, so this actually has a lower damage range than listed here, making Dthrow>Usmash>Uair a better string if you can get it to land, so the other has a higher reward while this one is more reliable.
Dthrow > Usmash > Uair > Tether = ~46-56%
---THIS is the big dog in town. None of the other combos come close to matching its maximum damage output (only grab shenanigans on heavies do), and only a few barely reach its minimum. I need to do more testing with this to see if people adapt, but believe me when I tell you: it works, and it is amazing. This works best on heavy characters (it DESTROYS DDD, such a huge uair and tether target), but it also works on normal weight characters; however, it has the highest succes rate on ordinary weight characters if the uair is yellow, as yellow uairs stop the opponent from rising while Oli still does, setting up better positioning for the tether. This combo IS DI dependent; if an opponent chooses to DI above Oli, he can't follow up with tether, but if they go to the side you're probably gonna land it. If the opponent is to the side but still too high, you can also just wait a moment for him to fall into tether range - once again, people don't expect it (at least not yet).
---Something to note: this can be performed on some heavies after a second dthrow at the beginning. I tried it on Snake and Falco and was able to do it sometimes, while other times they were just out of reach; I have a feeling that move staling on the dthrow makes this easier during actual gameplay. Also, even if all hits of the uair don't connect, as long as the last hit pops them up you can still hit them with a tether.
---One more important thing to note about this string is that it will only work if you have five-six pikmin in your line (the more, the better) and then only if all of them follow you. Several times during testing, one or two of my pikmin (either both the Dthrow and Usmash pikmin or just the Usmash pikmin) would remain on the ground, making my tether too short to reach the opponent (two on the ground making a six pikmin line too short, one on the ground making a five pikmin line too short).
Dthrow > Tether =~14-18%
---This section is less important than the others, but I still felt I should put it in here since it is closely related. It's very simple: Dthrow, watch your opponent's DI, dash forward the proper distance, and grounded tether. This is a string that is only for opponents at mid-high percentages (depending on weight), meaning the point at which other follow ups either become impossible or highly dangerous to perform, the point at which we generally don't think of dthrow having a follow up really. At these percentages, Dthrow sends opponents up into the air far enough that they will not be able to punish a grounded tether, while other options like Uair run the risk of being air dodge or flat out beaten (Marth comes to mind). This would not work if the opponent DIs far away from Oli, but it is still very useful if they do not. It will also miss if the opponent jumps at the right time, but in that case they're jumping and won't be able to punish it anyways. Not to mention this is a solid amount of damage. But no one besides me likes grounded tether anyways, so feel free to ignore this section if you like ^_^
I think I covered all ordinary throw followups, excluding string on spacies/heavies which would require in depth analysis of their own. Basically, tether is just about the greatest combo string finisher Oli has. He can tack it on to nearly every other combo he can perform, and the best part about it is that he can use it from a distance without overextending himself or making himself vulnerable.
Feel free to disagree with or add to anything here; the point of this thread is to start some real conversation on this
) And I dropped my usual text color to make this easier to read (sorry if you have some weird, exclusive skin).Now down to business.
When I made my post earlier today, I forgot to mention that a tether follow up is really only for when opponents DI away; uair is always better if they're close enough
However, a lot of times they're too far away (darn SDI), so tether comes in handy.Even so, what's stopping you from throwing out a tether after you uair? In some cases it might not be safe, but it can be a lot of times. This is another thing I've been doing lately, especially on DDD - he's such a huge target that it's almost impossible to miss, and when used properly it racks damage FAST. So this is why I created this thread - to discuss when and when not to use tether after a throw combo.
Let's do some damage comparison. Pikmin do different damamge percentages of course, and though I don't think it's necessary to go that in depth on each pikmin possibility, I still wanted a good idea of things; as such, I did each string several times with different pikmin orders. Also, just to keep things even, I tested these using combinations of only red, yellow, and blue pikmin due the properties surrounding white and purple dthrows and the low damage output of white attacks (lol white attacks
). This will suffice just to let us compare combo/string damage potentials. Also, I tested these in Training, so move staling will apply to some of these, leading to lower damage output and, in some cases, a higher chance of comboability.Dthrow > Fair = ~20-25%
---The basic combo, and usually a result of people getting out of the way of a regrab if you're going for it. Certainly nothing to laugh at; it does a decent amount of damage for something that's so guaranteed.
Dthrow > Usmash > Uair = ~39-48%
---HUGE damage racker - if you're able to pull this off it's amazing, as you all already know. It can also be DIed away from by smaller and lighter characters though, as you already know as well. It also has a damage output to quite similar to the regrab shanigans you can pull on someone at 0% (more on that later).
Dthrow > Usmash > Tether = ~28-33%
---Baasically, this is doing more damage than dthrow>fair, but less than this same string ending with a Uair. If you know someone is going to DI far enough out of your grab range if you try to go for a fair>regrab (perhaps they did it on an earlier stock) you should go for the usmash. (Unless you've got purples to throw, which opens up so many more grab opportunities, <3 Rich :D ) If after the Usmash you see they've DIed too far to be hit with uair, just go for the tether - it's more damage than you would do with a whiffed uair and many people will not expect it (at least not right now).
Dthrow > Usmash > Usmash = ~33-39%
---This works on some of the heavies, but only if they DI improperly, or they DI close enough for you to get in a second hyphen smash. Not seen much, but I figured I'd put it on here anyways. Succeptible to move staling obviously (not sure how much moves stale or else I'd just change the percentages).
Dthrow > Fair > Grab > Dthrow > Fair = ~42-48%
---Like Stealth pointed out, people can SDI the fair to get out of regrab distance, and like Fino pointed out a lot of people are just jumping now (which can be exploited, but we're talking about strings atm); however, if it works on someone then this is great. Fair stales, so this actually has a lower damage range than listed here, making Dthrow>Usmash>Uair a better string if you can get it to land, so the other has a higher reward while this one is more reliable.
Dthrow > Usmash > Uair > Tether = ~46-56%
---THIS is the big dog in town. None of the other combos come close to matching its maximum damage output (only grab shenanigans on heavies do), and only a few barely reach its minimum. I need to do more testing with this to see if people adapt, but believe me when I tell you: it works, and it is amazing. This works best on heavy characters (it DESTROYS DDD, such a huge uair and tether target), but it also works on normal weight characters; however, it has the highest succes rate on ordinary weight characters if the uair is yellow, as yellow uairs stop the opponent from rising while Oli still does, setting up better positioning for the tether. This combo IS DI dependent; if an opponent chooses to DI above Oli, he can't follow up with tether, but if they go to the side you're probably gonna land it. If the opponent is to the side but still too high, you can also just wait a moment for him to fall into tether range - once again, people don't expect it (at least not yet).
---Something to note: this can be performed on some heavies after a second dthrow at the beginning. I tried it on Snake and Falco and was able to do it sometimes, while other times they were just out of reach; I have a feeling that move staling on the dthrow makes this easier during actual gameplay. Also, even if all hits of the uair don't connect, as long as the last hit pops them up you can still hit them with a tether.
---One more important thing to note about this string is that it will only work if you have five-six pikmin in your line (the more, the better) and then only if all of them follow you. Several times during testing, one or two of my pikmin (either both the Dthrow and Usmash pikmin or just the Usmash pikmin) would remain on the ground, making my tether too short to reach the opponent (two on the ground making a six pikmin line too short, one on the ground making a five pikmin line too short).
Dthrow > Tether =~14-18%
---This section is less important than the others, but I still felt I should put it in here since it is closely related. It's very simple: Dthrow, watch your opponent's DI, dash forward the proper distance, and grounded tether. This is a string that is only for opponents at mid-high percentages (depending on weight), meaning the point at which other follow ups either become impossible or highly dangerous to perform, the point at which we generally don't think of dthrow having a follow up really. At these percentages, Dthrow sends opponents up into the air far enough that they will not be able to punish a grounded tether, while other options like Uair run the risk of being air dodge or flat out beaten (Marth comes to mind). This would not work if the opponent DIs far away from Oli, but it is still very useful if they do not. It will also miss if the opponent jumps at the right time, but in that case they're jumping and won't be able to punish it anyways. Not to mention this is a solid amount of damage. But no one besides me likes grounded tether anyways, so feel free to ignore this section if you like ^_^
I think I covered all ordinary throw followups, excluding string on spacies/heavies which would require in depth analysis of their own. Basically, tether is just about the greatest combo string finisher Oli has. He can tack it on to nearly every other combo he can perform, and the best part about it is that he can use it from a distance without overextending himself or making himself vulnerable.
Feel free to disagree with or add to anything here; the point of this thread is to start some real conversation on this
