Is It Possible To Incorporate Custom Stages Into Competitive Play?

vVv Rapture · Aug 15, 2010

This brought something to my attention:

Xeylode said:
My stance on PS1 is the lack of other suitable stages for neutrals. After YI, SV, and BF, you will be hard pressed to find any stage that is not somewhat debateble about not being thought of as neutral.

I feel as if custom stages should be looked into more for filling the need for more appropriate neutral stages. We have plenty of stages to pick from for CPs.

Why exactly do we not use custom stages as a viable option to create more starter/counterpick stages?

This sort of branches into two discussions:

1) Is it possible to actually do this? How hard is it to create custom stages fit for competitive play and is it harder to make them easily available to the community?

2) Is this needed for competition or is it not worth the trouble?

To be completely honest, if it is indeed easy to make custom stages available to people rather simply, there is no reason why we should not try to create custom maps for competitive play.

With that said, is it possible? I personally do not know, so this is both a serious question for myself personally, as well as a discussion starter. I would like to know if it is possible for this availability to exist and if anyone supports custom stages in competitive play.

Budget Player Cadet_ · Aug 15, 2010

Overswarm tried this and got more or less positive results. It's definitely possible, seeing as people have SD cards and whatnot. It would open up a whole new realm of possibilities.

vVv Rapture · Aug 15, 2010

Budget Player Cadet_ said:
Overswarm tried this and got more or less positive results. It's definitely possible, seeing as people have SD cards and whatnot. It would open up a whole new realm of possibilities.

That's what I figured. I couldn't put my finger on how to do it. Thanks for refreshing my memory. Can't you also send it to Wii Friends or something?

Also, wouldn't it be even easier for someone to build a stage, then layout the exact way to build the stage so people can build it themselves? That's...terribly easy, actually. xD

sunshade · Aug 15, 2010

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=264481

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=264480

These were not stickied btw.

Luxor · Aug 15, 2010

Custom stages are amazing in theory or constructivists because the creation of new stages allows you to rebalance the game by addition instead of subtraction, which I'm all for. Since it's included in the game itself, even originalists cannot object. I wish that tournament of OS's where custom stages would be included wasn't delayed for a year, since it means custom stages are a year further away from widespread adoption. They're pretty far as it is.
Custom stages are awesome and cure cancer.

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Aug 16, 2010

There are a number of problems with custom stages that need to be solved before they become more widespread. My interest is peaked again to get into custom stage development.

sunshade · Aug 16, 2010

what such problems are you referring to?

AMKalmar · Aug 16, 2010

@ Xeylode, regarding custom stages in general, yes, there may be problems with some of the creations people make. However, we have full control over what to include and what not to include in a standardized custom stage. As long as there is no circle camping or cave of life aspect to the stage, pretty much everything goes. Even large stages could be acceptable since running away would be avoiding conflict which is stalling which is banned. But I doubt a large custom stage would ever be used as even the small custom stages have particularly large boundaries.

Here's a video I made a long time ago showing a stage collision hit detection glitch. Relevant? Basically, just don't put a platform in contact with the bottom of a block. I did much testing, the platform is necessary to preform the glitch... maybe. If it's not necessary, it makes it much easier to do.

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Aug 16, 2010

Most problems relate to testing of dozens and dozens of stages that could be applicable. It has the possiblities to be such a huge project. Thus far, custom stages has probably not gone further than idle consideration as a solution to adding more stages to the stagelist.

Also as Kalmar has pointed out, there are still a few glitches with custom stages that would have to be taken note of.

All I am saying is that custom stages has great applications, but it would simply take a long time to catch on.

Grim Tuesday · Aug 16, 2010

How about, we turn this thread into one about discussion for neutrals we can add that would best balance the game. After we're done, we present the culmination of our efforts to the BR and request that they add the 5 or so stages we have created to the official recommended ruleset. Then we can continue to expand the possibilities from there.

AMKalmar · Aug 16, 2010

You'd have to get TOs to accept 1 custom stage in their rule list before they introduce 5.

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Aug 16, 2010

AMKalmar said:
You'd have to get TOs to accept 1 custom stage in their rule list before they introduce 5.

I cannot think of a single good reason why custom stages cannot be used. It simply depends on the stage.

On that note, I have made 5 stages which I believe are neutral-ish.
http://allisbrawl.com/stages/stages.aspx?aid=40083

I couldn't figure out how to get them up or anything, so I had to resort to AiB. They are downloadable there. Hopefully, I can get other videos of me playing on them up shortly. But, it won't be for awhile. They are nothing special except for one of the stages has excellent uses for wolf and a few others for gameplay.

vVv Rapture · Aug 16, 2010

As I said, you could lay out the specifics on how to make the stage so people can make them themselves (if they cannot download them, that is).

I would definitely try to put together some sort of package with custom stages that could be introduced as starter stages. Starting at one would definitely be better, though. If we got that one stage on the ruleset, or at least in good consideration for it, that opens the door for more custom stages to join the stagelist.

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Aug 16, 2010

vVv Rapture said:
As I said, you could lay out the specifics on how to make the stage so people can make them themselves (if they cannot download them, that is).

I would definitely try to put together some sort of package with custom stages that could be introduced as starter stages. Starting at one would definitely be better, though. If we got that one stage on the ruleset, or at least in good consideration for it, that opens the door for more custom stages to join the stagelist.

Same opinion. It's funny how active these boards got. A whole 6 people viewing it at one time lol

I need to find a better program to put those stage images out there. There was the brawl stage editor, but it is not working for me.

vVv Rapture · Aug 16, 2010

I'll look around for one, but if not I'll just take pictures and lay them out on MS Paint or something.

I hope we can get a lot of people to get in on this. We could all create some stages and then vote, as a whole, on which of the stages should be sent in the package to the BBR.

Luxor · Aug 16, 2010

You guys realize there's a sticky thread in Stage Discussion just for submitting custom stages intended for competitive play? The deadline for submissions was months ago, but the tourney was postponed for a year. I think it's fine if you add your submissions there; take a look at all the other ideas, too.
To get pictures of custom stages I just took a screenshot of the Stage Editor program. Feel free to PM me if you need help getting images or a download link.

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Aug 16, 2010

vVv Rapture said:
I'll look around for one, but if not I'll just take pictures and lay them out on MS Paint or something.

I hope we can get a lot of people to get in on this. We could all create some stages and then vote, as a whole, on which of the stages should be sent in the package to the BBR.

Anything the BBR does will be on there own terms as OS has been trying to get custom stages in the past, but no luck as of yet. I think the better idea would be to create a social group, or a thread dedicated to the creation of custom stages to be used for a competitive standard. Any discussion and submissions of stages would get placed there. The only difficulty would be the discussion of so many potiential stage creations.

EDIT:

Luxor said:
You guys realize there's a sticky thread in Stage Discussion just for submitting custom stages intended for competitive play? The deadline for submissions was months ago, but the tourney was postponed for a year. I think it's fine if you add your submissions there; take a look at all the other ideas, too.
To get pictures of custom stages I just took a screenshot of the Stage Editor program. Feel free to PM me if you need help getting images or a download link.

I thought that had simply died out or something.

vVv Rapture · Aug 16, 2010

Luxor said:
You guys realize there's a sticky thread in Stage Discussion just for submitting custom stages intended for competitive play? The deadline for submissions was months ago, but the tourney was postponed for a year. I think it's fine if you add your submissions there; take a look at all the other ideas, too.
To get pictures of custom stages I just took a screenshot of the Stage Editor program. Feel free to PM me if you need help getting images or a download link.

Yeah, I wasn't sure if we were going to use that because not only was it past the deadline, but there wasn't an update or notification after Cat 5 was postponed to June.

However, if we are still going to try this, nothing wrong with using that thread. However, also nothing wrong with not using it, either. If anything, doing something like this, it wouldn't be for just one tournament.

EDIT: @ Xeylode, both seem fine to me. Whatever works better for everyone else.

Luxor · Aug 16, 2010

vVv Rapture said:
Yeah, I wasn't sure if we were going to use that because not only was it past the deadline, but there wasn't an update or notification after Cat 5 was postponed to June.

However, if we are still going to try this, nothing wrong with using that thread. However, also nothing wrong with not using it, either. If anything, doing something like this, it wouldn't be for just one tournament.

EDIT: @ Xeylode, both seem fine to me. Whatever works better for everyone else.

It wouldn't be for just one tournament, it would be for one big, influential tournament. If any generally popular stages come out for widespread competitive play, they'll be customs from that tourney.
Since the tourney's postponed and OS never updated, I see the submissions deadline extension as implied.

Raziek · Aug 16, 2010

I support custom stages, and intend to experiment with them in the future.

I also like how Luxor sigged me. xD

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Aug 16, 2010

Well, I am creating a social group for anyone interested in exploring more about custom stages. Join if you like. Just need to work out the discussions sections still.

I will upload the stages I had later to that tournament page. Hopefully, the revival of it will spark more interest, even if they are not accepting custom stages still, or even managing the thread.

vVv Rapture · Aug 16, 2010

Luxor said:
It wouldn't be for just one tournament, it would be for one big, influential tournament. If any generally popular stages come out for widespread competitive play, they'll be customs from that tourney.
Since the tourney's postponed and OS never updated, I see the submissions deadline extension as implied.

Alright, I'll agree on that.

We could get a hold of Overswarm and get a confirmation on it. I would then submit stages of my own, at the very least.

@Xeylode: Good stuff. I'll be joining that, hopefully others do, as well.

Raziek · Aug 16, 2010

Joined, you have my support.

Luxor · Aug 16, 2010

It's like the best sig ever lol. I love the mental image.

edit: Why is this here? lolignore

Budget Player Cadet_ · Aug 16, 2010

I support this. Endless possibilities... The question is, where/when do we stop?

vVv Rapture · Aug 16, 2010

Until someone gives us a court order.

EDIT: Also, everyone, if you do make some custom stages, the social group has an area to post them up to be rated and what not, so check that out!

UberMario · Aug 16, 2010

The main two reasons that custom stages are not used is because they aren't in use now and because there are so many possible variants. Circular reasoning I know [for the former], but it's pretty much the truth. The fact that no one uses them in tourneys has resulted in a lack of research into the designs.

I wouldn't mind if Stage Builder versions of WarioWare or N64 Saffron City became legal, but odds are the shear amount of custom stages possible [and if voted on, how would we know if most of the custom stages that are legal, if any, are even on the host's Wii(s)?] can be a big problem in determining whether they will be used, however, if this did become a serious possibility, I'd be for it.

Luxor · Aug 16, 2010

Joined the group.

Supermik884 · Aug 17, 2010

Well I'm not very familiar with competive play, tournament, tourney and other thing like that, but wouldn't be better if the custom stage are already pre-made by the BBR, I think? so like that they wouldn't have hundred of submision (you will not be the only one to try).

I don't know if they have they own Wii or if competitor bring they own (I don't think is that one). So each Wii at the competition will have the same custom stage created by BBR, I think. I don't know if it could be good, like I said earlier.

I think it would be fun to have custom stage, so I hope it can work!

Luxor · Aug 17, 2010

The BBR will never officially support specific custom stages. They may encourage TOs to experiment with them and make such encouragement official, but custom stage use will still be by a TOs approval. The BBR has influence, not power.

TheOriginalSmasher · Aug 17, 2010

I would like a custom stage as a neutral / cp where its as wide as FD, with the 3 BF platforms, and have diagonal walls, (made of square blocks) going inward from the edges. (think of it just like FD on the bottom,) So its easier to tech, and wall cling.

But back to the main topic, it's defidently possible, but not probable.

#HBC | Dark Horse · Aug 26, 2010

The thing is, the only way a coustom stage could be considered part of brawl's stagelist is if every wii that is used to play brawl has it.

TreK · Aug 26, 2010

That's not a problem. You can copy it on a SD and paste it on every wii used in the tournament you're attending. Plus if it spreads, the stages we will use will be on every wii within a month anyway.

Why has the custom stages group been deleted ?

Luxor · Aug 27, 2010

That's the exact words I used.
The weird thing is that this isn't the first time an adbot has reposted what I say word for word on these forums... I wonder if it's the same guy lol.

Gea · Sep 2, 2010

Teneban said:
That's not a problem. You can copy it on a SD and paste it on every wii used in the tournament you're attending. Plus if it spreads, the stages we will use will be on every wii within a month anyway.

Except to avoid any mixups and cheating you'd have to do this every tournament. That is more setup time. I think the main issue is that they are editable.

krazyzyko · Sep 2, 2010

Completely aproved I have over 150 stages on my wii lol.

Could we make like a "2010 legal custom stage pack"?
To add at least 3 more stages to the competitive scene internationally?
And make like a poll for the stages submitted?

I already submitted like 6 stages but kinda got 4-stocked by the whole year delay T_T

TheOriginalSmasher · Sep 2, 2010

krazyzyko said:
Completely aproved I have over 150 stages on my wii lol.

Could we make like a "2010 legal custom stage pack"?
To add at least 3 more stages to the competitive scene internationally?
And make like a poll for the stages submitted?

I already submitted like 6 stages but kinda got 4-stocked by the whole year delay T_T

Love the idea...

GHNeko · Sep 2, 2010

Gea said:
Except to avoid any mixups and cheating you'd have to do this every tournament. That is more setup time. I think the main issue is that they are editable.

Nothing memorization of a stage layout can't fix.

Unless you're using hacked custom stages, all the pieces fit along a grid and follow special rules when being built. In that sense, let's say a custom stage comes along and becomes official, people will need to learn the stage and how to play on it as their main and such and will post videos and so on and so forth.

After playing enough times on a stage like that, it becomes a part of your long term memory.

Every edit on a custom stage that is different from the prior version is noticable enough for you not to be able to get away with it for long, if at all.

If anything, you could have a picture of the stage while in edit mode on the grid and compare to the in-game version to look for discrepencies on each console being used in a tourney.

PurpleTop · Sep 3, 2010

It would definitely be interesting if we could play on custom stages. It would be totally different than on a regular stage. It would just not be possible in online play, though online play sucks.

TreK · Sep 3, 2010

krazyzyko said:
Completely aproved I have over 150 stages on my wii lol.

Could we make like a "2010 legal custom stage pack"?
To add at least 3 more stages to the competitive scene internationally?
And make like a poll for the stages submitted?

I already submitted like 6 stages but kinda got 4-stocked by the whole year delay T_T

I'm not into building custom stages for the sake of building them.
That's a terrible idea imho.

In example, four starter stages are more or less undisputed : SV, FD, BF, YI. The fifth one, depending on the regions, varies from LC to PS1. usually.
This is an actual problem. The custom stages are an actual solution.

Some people also think to a reason, and I say that being a Diddy main so don't get me wrong, that FD isn't a neutral starter. This is another problem that can be fixed through the use of custom stages.

Building them 'for fun' instead of solving problems... just doesn't suit my definition of competitive smash.

Just wanted to let you know.

Is It Possible To Incorporate Custom Stages Into Competitive Play?

Smash Lord

Smash Hero

Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Smash Champion

Broken!

Smash Ace

Smash Ace

Broken!

Smash Legend

Smash Ace

Broken!

Smash Lord

Broken!

Smash Lord

Smash Champion

Broken!

Smash Lord

Smash Champion

Charging Limit All Day

Broken!

Smash Lord

Charging Limit All Day

Smash Champion

Smash Hero

Smash Lord

Smash Master

Smash Champion

Smash Rookie

Smash Champion

Smash Ace

Mach-Hommy x Murakami

Is "that guy"

Smash Champion

Smash Master

Smash Champion

Smash Ace

Sega Stockholm Syndrome.

Smash Cadet

Is "that guy"

Information

Network