Pirate ship analysis

#HBC | Dark Horse · Aug 21, 2010

Basic Data

The rock island (when the ship hits it to when the island sinks) lasts 25 sec

The king of the red lions has a random timing.

The cyclone (when it appears in the background to when it affects the ship) is 5 sec.

You stay in the clouds for 4 sec.

From what it seems, the catapult seems to trigger either:

A: randomly
B: when someone comes close

I couldn't get a consistent result. Once it was immediate, another it was 2 sec, and a third was 4

The bombs, from when they are fired, take 3 sec. to hit the ship.

The bomb tower (from when it first appears to when it ceases fire) lasts for 16 sec.

If you're wondering why I put option B for a trigger of the catapult is because, well, that seemed to be a case. If your wondering why I put option A as a trigger, it's because it's another option.

8 minute timer

I color coded everything, to make my life easier.

Code:

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]orange[/COLOR] means "Catapult appears".
[COLOR="Sienna"]sienna[/COLOR]  means "Catapult disappears".
[COLOR="Red"]Red[/COLOR] means "King of red lions appears". 
[COLOR="DarkRed"]Dark Red[/COLOR] means "KoRL disappears".
[COLOR="Cyan"]Cyan[/COLOR]  means "cyclone appears to the point where it affects the ship".
[COLOR="MediumTurquoise"]Turquoise[/COLOR] means "ship lands". 
[COLOR="Cyan"]Cyan[/COLOR]:[COLOR="Red"]Red[/COLOR] Means that the KoRL was on stage while the cyclone hit, canceling the KoRL early.
[COLOR="Silver"]Silver[/COLOR] means "shipwrecked (on the island)".
[COLOR="Gray"]Grey[/COLOR] means "back on track (island disappears)".
[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]Royal Blue[/COLOR] means "bomb tower appears".
[COLOR="Navy"]Navy[/COLOR] means "Bomb tower disappears".

If you find a combination of colors, it means that either:
A. Both activated at the same time
B. One activated, the other deactivated at the same time.

Now for the actual data:

Code:

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]7:51[/COLOR] [COLOR="Red"]7:50[/COLOR] [COLOR="Sienna"]7:44[/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkRed"]7:32[/COLOR] [COLOR="Silver"]7:13[/COLOR] [COLOR="Gray"]6:47[/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkOrange"]6:39[/COLOR] [COLOR="Sienna"]6:35[/COLOR] [COLOR="Red"]6:28[/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkRed"]6:20[/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkOrange"]6:07[/COLOR] [COLOR="RoyalBlue"]6:03[/COLOR] 
[COLOR="Sienna"]5:59[/COLOR] [COLOR="Navy"]5:45[/COLOR] [COLOR="Red"]5:29[/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkOrange"]5:27[/COLOR] [COLOR="Sienna"]5:18[/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkRed"]5:08[/COLOR] [COLOR="Red"]4[/COLOR]:[COLOR="DarkOrange"]52[/COLOR] [COLOR="Sienna"]4:46[/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkRed"]4:36[/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkOrange"]4:30[/COLOR] [COLOR="Sienna"]4:[/COLOR][COLOR="Red"]22[/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkRed"]4:12[/COLOR] 
[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]4:10[/COLOR] [COLOR="Navy"]3:50[/COLOR] [COLOR="Red"]3:39[/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkOrange"]3:33[/COLOR] [COLOR="Sienna"]3:25[/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkRed"]3:24[/COLOR] [COLOR="Cyan"]3:06[/COLOR] [COLOR="MediumTurquoise"]2:55[/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkOrange"]2:47[/COLOR] [COLOR="Sienna"]2:41[/COLOR] 
[COLOR="Red"]2:36[/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkOrange"]2:14[/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkRed"]2:12[/COLOR] [COLOR="Sienna"]2:07[/COLOR] [COLOR="Red"]1:56[/COLOR] [COLOR="Cyan"]1:[/COLOR][COLOR="Red"]45[/COLOR] [COLOR="MediumTurquoise"]1:35[/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkOrange"]1:22[/COLOR] [COLOR="Sienna"] 1:17[/COLOR] [COLOR="Red"]1:15[/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkRed"]0:52[/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkOrange"]0:49[/COLOR] [COLOR="Sienna"]0:41[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]0:39[/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkRed"]0:28[/COLOR] [COLOR="RoyalBlue"]0:[/COLOR][COLOR="DarkOrange"]26[/COLOR] [COLOR="Sienna"]0:17[/COLOR] [COLOR="Navy"]0:08[/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkOrange"]0:00[/COLOR]

Stuff I can conclude from this.

The catapult and the KoRL are much more common than cyclones, bomb towers, and islands.

Most of the time, objects are active at simultaneously with each other.

Some periods of times with nothing going on were much longer than others, meaning that the "peaceful times" aren't at a set time.

Though the catapult times were random, it never exceeded 10 seconds.

The king of the red lions is randomly timed, meaning that I was wrong with that.

The bomb twer seems to dissapear fo risig amounts of time.

However, the most important thing...

The only pattern I (well, technically nidtendofreak. Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't think it was a pattern.) Is that the KoRL is the "trigger" for the bomb tower, cyclone & shipwreck. However, the KoRL is random, meaning that the ship has no real pattern.

Thank you for reading.

Trivia

The 0:00 catapult thing is not a lie. A catapult appeard in the slow-motion seconds after a match.
The bomb towers were measured from when they first appeared to when they ceased fire.
To tell when the KoRL was really gone, I stood on the front of the ship and waited for myself to be KO'd from crossing the boundary.

-Final- · Aug 21, 2010

This data looks pretty accurate. How useful it will be is a different matter, however...

#HBC | Dark Horse · Aug 21, 2010

Well, two things (off the top of my head) is that you can know wether it's safe to go fininsh off the person below you in midair, and to know wether you should be fighting near the front of the boat or not when it hits land.

Nidtendofreak · Aug 22, 2010

I have a whole lot of Pirate Ship info sitting around that I basically need to type up after getting a few last bits of info. I can tell you right now that the KoRL does not have a set time, but a set range of time where it can be out, and I'm somewhat suspicious of most of the other times you posted I'm afraid. You didn't include when you started and stopped timing for each of those events so I'm not positive what you're timing (how long the events are visible, how long they are a threat, ect), and several of those events I'm fairly sure have a range of time and not a set time.

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Aug 22, 2010

Dark Horse said:
The rock island (when the ship hits it to when the island sinks) lasts 25 sec

The king of the red lions lasts 17 sec.

These are the most important things in my opinion. Everything else has fair warning for you to see coming by a few seconds as you already pointed out.

LaIotun · Aug 23, 2010

What's the king of red lions?

#HBC | Dark Horse · Aug 23, 2010

It's the smaller red ship.

LaIotun · Aug 24, 2010

Oh, is it significant?

Nidtendofreak · Aug 24, 2010

There is actually a minor pattern to the stage. You might have noticed if you weren't recording the catapult as well, as that thing as it's own pattern and "pattern breaker" if you would (somebody moving close enough).

I really need to run those last two 8 minute sessions and then put together the topic. >_>

#HBC | Dark Horse · Aug 24, 2010

Nidtendofreak said:
There is actually a minor pattern to the stage. You might have noticed if you weren't recording the catapult as well, as that thing as it's own pattern and "pattern breaker" if you would (somebody moving close enough).

Even with that, there seem to be no pattern. The king of the red lions disappears for a whole minute, then , another time, It disappears for a couple of seconds.

The land only appears once, making it impossible to tell wether there's a pattern or not. Same with the cyclone, which only appears twice.

The only thing to have something close to a pattern is the bomb tower, which seems to disappear at a rising pace.

Nidtendofreak · Aug 25, 2010

Nope.

The KoRL must appear at least once in between each major event (Rock, Wind, Bombs). Catapult is on it's own system, and thus does not fall into the pattern.

#HBC | Dark Horse · Aug 25, 2010

Nidtendofreak said:
Nope.

The KoRL must appear at least once in between each major event (Rock, Wind, Bombs). Catapult is on it's own system, and thus does not fall into the pattern.

That might just be the fact that the KORL appears frequently.

Nidtendofreak · Aug 25, 2010

Nope. Not in the 5 tests I've ran so far. Without fail, the KoRLs has appeared at least once in between each event, and as many as three times IIRC. That's why I'm going to run another two 8 minute rounds on Friday before posting my info: I had two odd sessions. The first one was my own fault, I didn't use Fixed Camera Angle so my timing on things is slightly off. The other time the Wind showed up 6 times in a row as the major event, and probably about 75% of the time overall. I will include those two run throughs, but I want 5 "normal" 8 minute matches as it were, as well as a little bit of info on the catapult and cannonball strength. And double check something about Rudder Stalling: if I'm right about it, even if it's legal it's a non-issue due to the fact it's borderline impossible to stay there as good length of time due to the ship constantly rocking.

BigDaddy4 · Aug 25, 2010

interesting find.

#HBC | Dark Horse · Aug 25, 2010

@niddo

Even if you're right, the KORL has a randomized pattern, thus making the ship random.

Nidtendofreak · Aug 25, 2010

I said it was a "minor pattern" for a reason. You know you will never have a Rock -> Wind, or something like that, without a small break in between thanks to the KoRL. That is indeed a bit of a pattern, as it's predictable/known that the KoRLs will appear after Rock/Wind/Bombs.

#HBC | Dark Horse · Aug 25, 2010

However, that could be anywhere from 1 minute to 20 seconds away, so I wouldn't call it a reliable piece of information.

Nidtendofreak · Aug 25, 2010

It is reliable though. Hopefully by the end of Friday I'll be done gathering info and let you/everyone know the minimal amount of safe time you have.

Fun fact I found out today about Pirate Ship: Only 1/3 of the cannonballs are actually aimed at you. The rest are completely random. Also, out of 100 cannonballs and their paths, only 6 total "juggled" a character who didn't DI at all, or have very weak DI.

#HBC | Dark Horse · Aug 26, 2010

Nidtendofreak said:
It is reliable though. Hopefully by the end of Friday I'll be done gathering info and let you/everyone know the minimal amount of safe time you have.

Okay, you see the pirate ship, so you know somethings coming. However, you don't know what is coming and when it's coming.

I wouldn't call that reliable.

Fun fact I found out today about Pirate Ship: Only 1/3 of the cannonballs are actually aimed at you. The rest are completely random. Also, out of 100 cannonballs and their paths, only 6 total "juggled" a character who didn't DI at all, or have very weak DI.

Are you sure the "randomly aimed" cannonballs are actually aiming for a place you were standing a while ago?

AfroQT · Aug 26, 2010

Yo nice pirate ship data thumbs up

Nidtendofreak · Aug 26, 2010

Dark Horse said:
Okay, you see the pirate ship, so you know somethings coming. However, you don't know what is coming and when it's coming.

I wouldn't call that reliable.

Still better than nothing. The only thing that can come with the KoRL still visible is the wind. You know there won't be any cannonballs or rock phase as long as you can see the KoRL. The Wind is the event that gives you the most heads up, with the background darkening, thunder in the distance, ect.

Are you sure the "randomly aimed" cannonballs are actually aiming for a place you were standing a while ago?

Neither character were moving at all. It was in practice mode: I was controlling Ike, Mario was controlled by a CPU on "Stop", meaning he would recover auto-matically. The only time I moved Ike was to get back on stage if hit by a cannonball.

#HBC | Dark Horse · Aug 26, 2010

Nidtendofreak said:
Still better than nothing. The only thing that can come with the KoRL still visible is the wind. You know there won't be any cannonballs or rock phase as long as you can see the KoRL. The Wind is the event that gives you the most heads up, with the background darkening, thunder in the distance, ect.

Actually, i've seen "false alarms", where the sky darkens, but no cyclone appears.

Neither character were moving at all. It was in practice mode: I was controlling Ike, Mario was controlled by a CPU on "Stop", meaning he would recover auto-matically. The only time I moved Ike was to get back on stage if hit by a cannonball.

Interesting. When I was doing my test, all the cannonballs were aimed at either TL (me) or R.O.B (the cpu).

Blobby · Aug 30, 2010

I've also noticed that the Rock Island never comes when the smaller ship is tailing the Pirate Ship. But I never really tested it...

PurpleTop · Sep 3, 2010

I never really liked this map.... I always get hit by the catapult.

•Col• · Sep 3, 2010

PurpleTop said:
I never really liked this map.... I always get hit by the catapult.

................. Really?

san. · Sep 3, 2010

I would really like a rudder camping analysis. (Easiness, average duration, risks, etc). I tested using it with Ike and it was total crap (kept dying and wouldn't always stay in the rudder position)

Nidtendofreak · Sep 3, 2010

>_> <_<

I blame ME1 for me not posting info. Stupid addicting game...

I know there is a "false" Wind thing. The Wind is still the only thing that gives you a heads up.

I also testing rudder camping with Ike. It's a serious pain to get under there and stay there. "False" Wind makes it even more risky, maybe impossible to stay there. Actual Wind kills you if you don't get out of there ASAP the moment the sky darkens and the funnel touches down. Rock kills you if you don't move it. Under normal conditions it's not easy to stay there. There is probably a "sweet spot" a few pixels wide where you're fairly safe, but "False" Wind can force you out.

There is also the fact that the opponent can simply move to a spot where you don't get a "bubble" view of your character, as I found out in training mode when I had to move the CPU to another spot while Ike was in the "sweet spot" for rudder camping. While your opponent is there, you can't see where your character is under the ship, and you're even more likely to kill yourself.

Nidtendofreak · May 24, 2011

Ehehe...here is one of the trial runs I ran for timing events on the Pirate Ship. I found it while cleaning up the game room. It's only what, 9 months late or so? Meh, if I'm ever going to argue for Pirate Ship to be in the BBR Ruleset, I better put up what ever info I can find...so yes, this is worth the 9-month bump. At least to me.

[COLLAPSE="The one Pirate Ship trial I managed to find"]

Notes: Timings were based on an 8 minute match, counting down, which is why the events start with high number times instead of low number times.

King of Red Lions Timing = First Appearing on Screen -> Completely Off Screen
Wind Timing = First Appearing in the Background as a Twister -> Ship Landing in the Water
Rock Timing = First Warning Symbol -> Rock Completely Vanished
Bombs Timing = First Shot Firing -> Last Shot Landing

Start of Match: 8:00
King of Red Lions: 7:49 -> 7:36
Wind: 7:29 -> 7:10
King of Red Lions: 6:59 -> 6:32
Bombs: 6:27 -> 6:08
King of Red Lions: 5:58 -> 5:35
Rock: 5:20 -> 4:40
King of Red Lions: 4:29 -> 4:07
Wind: 3:52 -> 3:33
King of Red Lions: 3:18 -> 3:03
Bombs: 2:52 -> 2:32
King of Red Lions: 2:23 -> 2:07
Rock: 1:44 -> 1:12
King of Red Lions: 1:01 -> 0:43
End of Match: 0:00

[/COLLAPSE]

As you can see, every single major event as the King of Red Lions before it. Once the King of Red Lions has moved off screen, you have 5-15 seconds to prepare for most events, or 15-25 seconds before the rocks. Not shown in this trial is that multiple KoRLs can appear back to back.

Other things I may or may not have said in this topic already:

Not every bomb is aimed towards you or your opponent. I don't remember the ratio, but some are in fact completely random.

You have 1-2 seconds to dodge an incoming bomb.

Bomb has two hitboxes, one with set knockback, another, smaller one that can actually kill you.

There are always six bombs fired.

How to beat rudder camping: jump onto highest platform. Watch opponent scramble to keep his character safe while being unable to see their exact location on the screen (they are in a bubble that has shifted away from their precise location underneath the rudder). When a false wind comes (something that did not occur in this trial but does exist), the ship rocks more than normal, forcing them out one way or another. Or just wait for a rock or real wind to occur. Spam taunt until they either die are forced to pop up.

Tesh · May 24, 2011

Do they take hoop damage if you put them in that bubble? If so it would be pretty interesting if they were forced into kill percents by attempting to camp there.

MK26 · May 24, 2011

i think they always take hoop damage regardless

Tesh · May 24, 2011

You only take hoop damage if you are in....the "hoop" right? you have to be offscreen in the bubble,

Nidtendofreak · May 24, 2011

The underwater hoop doesn't always deal damage. Some times it's just there to show you were you are as you swim upwards. I can't remember if you can force them to take damage under the rudder or not. This was like, 9 months ago after all. It would also require me to fumble around with two controllers at the same time again. lol. I may look into it later.

Ghostbone · May 24, 2011

You can definitely force them to take hoop damage. I don't know if you can force them to take hoop damage from the top of the ship but I imagine you would though.

John12346 · May 25, 2011

You don't get hoop damage from being in the hoop.

It happens when you get a specified distance from the blastzone, and even though you must be in the hoop in order to be that close to the blastzone, it doesn't mean going into the hoop will give you hoop damage.

sunshade · May 25, 2011

It does not matter anyways because the issue with ruddercamping is not that its broken, its that its "degenerate", which funny enough is something I no longer consider an acceptable reason for banning a stage.

WindMajor · May 25, 2011

Everybody thinks that everything is degenerate these days. It's the new broken.

sunshade · May 25, 2011

Which is why I no longer consider the reason of "degenerate play" an acceptable reason to ban stages. :/

WindMajor · May 25, 2011

I still consider degenerate play to be a reason to ban, but what I think is degenerate and what everyone else thinks is degenerate are most likely two very different levels of tolerance.

Anyways, it's cool to see some proof that the King of Red Lions in fact DOES come before every hazard. From the data that you gathered, it seems like Pirate Ship has the PS1 thing going, in which all transformations have to appear before they repeat. Did you confirm this?

After I do my work with the two stages I'm currently working with, I'll pass over to Pirate Ship.

Nidtendofreak · May 25, 2011

Twinkie said:
Anyways, it's cool to see some proof that the King of Red Lions in fact DOES come before every hazard. From the data that you gathered, it seems like Pirate Ship has the PS1 thing going, in which all transformations have to appear before they repeat. Did you confirm this?

After I do my work with the two stages I'm currently working with, I'll pass over to Pirate Ship.

No, actually I used to have proof that every hazard does not have to show up before they repeat. I had one test where the Wind was the major hazard like, seven times in a row. From memory, for 8 minutes, the Wind was the only major hazard except for one time at the very end when the Rock appeared. The King of Red Lions also made a triple appearance between two Wind events. The only true pattern to this is that the KoRL must appear at lease once between each major hazard.

I'm glad to hear other people will look into this stage: I don't have any mods on my Wii, so it's sometimes difficult to gather some of the data for this stage. Considering this is now summer though, I may be bored enough to do some more runs through of this stage. :laugh:

Ghostbone · May 25, 2011

John12346 said:
You don't get hoop damage from being in the hoop.

It happens when you get a specified distance from the blastzone, and even though you must be in the hoop in order to be that close to the blastzone, it doesn't mean going into the hoop will give you hoop damage.

Then why does taking damage while rudder camping depend on where your opponent is on the stage?

Pirate ship analysis

Mach-Hommy x Murakami

Aria♪

Mach-Hommy x Murakami

Smash Hero

Broken!

Smash Apprentice

Mach-Hommy x Murakami

Smash Apprentice

Smash Hero

Mach-Hommy x Murakami

Smash Hero

Mach-Hommy x Murakami

Smash Hero

Smash Journeyman

Mach-Hommy x Murakami

Smash Hero

Mach-Hommy x Murakami

Smash Hero

Mach-Hommy x Murakami

Smash Master

Smash Hero

Mach-Hommy x Murakami

Smash Cadet

Smash Cadet

Smash Champion

1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero

Smash Hero

Smash Hero

Smash Hero

Smash Master

Smash Hero

Smash Hero

Smash Master

Smash Master

Smash Ace

.

Smash Ace

.

Smash Hero

Smash Master

Information

Network