Matchup Re-Discussion: Meta Knight

Resources for discussion:

Current MU Ratio (subject to change after discussion): 43:57 in Meta Knight's favor
Can we CG him?: Yes

- 0% - 52% + regrab
- Dthrow x 7 > grab
*First 3 regrabs are escapable with footstool.

Our Original Matchup Thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=181300
Their Matchup Opinion/Thread: ??:?? in Meta Knight's favor, http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=179463
Good luck finding anything in there. There's bits and pieces scattered everywhere, but no summary was ever made, and I have yet to find an actual dicussion.

Pikachu Frame Data: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=223901
Meta Knight Frame Data: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=205614

Summary:

In progress.

55:45 MK.

This match is literally a guessing game. It would be even if MK couldn't dair camp, but it is pretty effective against Pikachu once MK is winning.

Up close the match goes as follows:

MK F-tilt/D-tilt > Pika Ground approach
Pika SH Dair OR T-jolt approach > F-tilt
MK Up-b > SH Dair and T-jolt approach (Up-b OOS)
Pika run shield > Up-b
MK Grab > Pika run shield
SH Dair > MK Grab

D-smash, Thunder, F-smash, and T-jolt from the top break Tornado. MK has enough mobility in tornado to avoid basically every one of those. I have D-smashed on reaction to Tornado, the MK waits till the D-smash ends, and then hits me. It is quite silly.

Pikachu legit CG starts at 16%. You can get 3 regrabs I believe. The 2 best options are nair (Preferred) and reverse U-tilt. Reverse U-tilt puts MK above you, and unless MK literally dairs out of it, you can follow up with uairs. However, if he dairs, you can punish it. It is really just a guessing game...

U-smash thunder will kill MK at 100% before U-smash, and U-tilt thunder at 110% before u-tilt. MK's F-smash will kill Pikachu at ~120%, and his D-smash will kill at ~135% (Backswing). Nair will kill at ~130%

If we are winning, camp T-jolts. However, don't spam them. MK is really REALLY good at punishing...read my thread http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=284281 for more details on that. I don't feel like I need to go over it.

If MK is dair camping, try to find a pattern. If you can, punish with DJ Uairs to Nair. Or...you can predict his jump and thunder. I have hit Seibrik with thunder like that several times. It is pretty amazing. Um...there isn't really many other options besides that, unless you try to punish landing...but nado/dimensional cape makes that near impossible.

What should we do if the meta-knight decides to plank?

Well if the match-up is a guessing game, wouldn't it be at least 50/50?

Dair camping makes it in his favor. It is hard for us to get around it...

PeachGuard said:

Well if the match-up is a guessing game, wouldn't it be at least 50/50?

Click to expand...

Just because something is a guessing game does not mean it's even. Think Rock-paper-scissors where your opponent wins ties.

Well, I'm just starting too pick up Pikachu again. So fun <3

So I'm guessing Pika can't Shield and then U-tilt his way through MK's Dair camping?

MK shouldn't be doing it low enough to hit our shield. If he is, he doesn't know how to dair camp.

Basically, MK would be high in the air (FH and DJ distance) and basically create an invisible wall of hitboxes (If you go this far in, you are gonna get daired). Even if MK doesn't dair every time, it limits our options because we basically have uair to combat it, and that is it. If we go with a uair and he reacts, he DJ dairs again, hitting us away. We have to be very patient, but MK only dair camps when he is wininng, so it is really hard to regain the lead. He can time Pika out like that if he gets a 40-50% lead.

Soo, thunder is out of the question too? I know mind games arn't a part of a match-up but you can QAC(mind game)into Thunder maybe?

Lol, not trying too annoy. Trying to learn.
ESAM fan btw.

It can, but it is easy to AD pass it and then hit us hard.

Can't Pikachu crawl under the Dair to bait MK into getting lower and then go for punishment? Or at least avoid draining your shield because he also has to go very low first if he tries to tornado you? I think characters with a good duck should use that option more. Even Snake's don't use it even though he has a really good duck [+crawl]. If a small character like Pikachu can crawl around under dair and tornado it can be hard for MK to get you into a bad position.

The object of dair camping isn't to hit the opponent, it is to keep them out. They aren't that intent on hitting you, so they won't go low enough so that you can retaliate.

Yeah, I understand now. I guess the only real options are too time your Uair in between frames or use Thunder. If you have good eyes, I don't think it's too hard. It is still annoying though.

I learned something today. Thanks ESAM. You might see me here more often.

MK should never be THAT high dair camping...maybe just jumping.

Also, B-reverse thunders are safe besides dimensional cape.

Or they could walk up, sheild it, then walk through. I'm sure pika has enough lag on the end of that for them to punish you.

I meant if they are in the air. Sorry for the miscommunication.

Ah, no problem.

While they're in the air makes sense.