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Attn: Button Mashers

e__

e__

Smash Ace
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
614
Location
Cincinnati
Stop breaking your controller and losing matches trying to mash out of the IC chaingrab. After you reach a certain percent it's impossible to get out without them screwing up. Just wait so that you can take advantage when/if they do screw up.
 
CR4SH

CR4SH

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
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Location
Louisville Ky.
E, you're wrong. Talk to me about this, I'll teach you to mash. Next time we're in the same place I'll show you.
 
Wretched

Wretched

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Messages
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Attn, I broke out of an ic chaingrab like five times earlier from low percents by mashing.
But seriously, how do you break controllers and lose matches that way.
Seriously.
 
CR4SH

CR4SH

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If you've never broken a controller due to mashing, I don't want to hear about your ICs experience.
 
Wretched

Wretched

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Messages
4,166
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New Mexico
but how
I can try as hard as **** and not do anything to a controller
and I'm generally strong
 
L

link2702

Smash Champion
Joined
May 10, 2008
Messages
2,778
break the ice climber players controller, easier, and more effecitve


problem solved.
 
TreK

TreK

Is "that guy"
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ICs can't kill me before 150. Too early = they have to charge their smash = I get out.
 
A

auroreon

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Messages
583
Actually, setting the D-Pad to attack is pointless.
Having just spent 20 minutes testing mash-outs, the input that seems the have the largest effect is the control stick, so rotating the control stick as quickly as possible is, as far as I can tell, the fastest single way of mashing.
I tried combining this control stick rotation with other things to see if it increased the speed of mashing out, control stick + C-stick/R+L/D-Pad as attack didn't seem to make any difference, however I was able to mash out quickest by rotation the control stick as quickly as possible whilst mashing the A/B/X/Y buttons with the 3 middle fingers on my other hand.

The D-pad on attack was the slowest method I tried of mashing out, even mashing R and L was faster.
 
Tesh

Tesh

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There was a thread in 2009 detailing how many frames each input removes from shield breaks and grabs. Someone should find it....
 
E

Elyssa Xey Hexen

Broken!
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
19,346
I remember just such a discussion. And c-stick was the fastest method. It removed 16 frames from your grab duration. However, it could not be rotated like the control stick, it had to be returned to neutral each time before trying again. Control stick, trigger, attack, special, and jump each removed a number of frames from the duration. Not sure if that method is still true today.


All in all, button mashing is still bad as you might not realize when you escaped and do a dodge or something only to get regrabbed again. No panic button mashing, but in control button mashing is needed to stop when you truly break out.

Tesh said:
There was a thread in 2009 detailing how many frames each input removes from shield breaks and grabs. Someone should find it....
Click to expand...

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=209846
Bingo!
 
Supreme Dirt

Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
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Messages
7,336
So according to that, DPad vs. Control Stick is purely which you can rotate faster. Except with unrestricted control editing, I'm pretty sure you can set DPad to Smash, so if a TO allows it, you could set DPad to Smash, having a much faster breakout time. Of course, if you don't use CC (i.e. 90% of the scene) you could have problems with not being able to use it most of the time, due to not being able to transfer your control scheme.

All in all, CStick + Control Stick seems to be safest.
 
TreK

TreK

Is "that guy"
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Messages
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Oh I thought diagonals mattered when turning the stick... Every turn would have been 12 inputs, it's in fact 4 inputs and sucks :/
Doesn't matter, I've never been able to turn it fast, I smack it back and forth diagonally, twice as fast as I would turn it -> it's in fact twice as effective as it would be for me.

That doesn't answer me : what happens for c stick diagonals ?
 
E

Elyssa Xey Hexen

Broken!
Joined
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Messages
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Since people never seem to click on other smash boards links as I had linked to earlier, I'll just mass quote it.

Ref said:
Okay so I decided to do this because I was bored.

0% grabbed = 90 frames

Subtracted with an input

C stick = 16! frames you must flick or it will subtract 0 frames
A = 8
Control stick direction = 8
Z = 8
R = 8
L = 8
B = 8
Y = 8
X = 8

??? - It seems that going diagonal removes 16 frames? HOWEVER IF YOU HAD INPUTED ONE OF THE DIRECTIONS THAT IT REPRESENTS IT WILL DO NOTHING.
Meaning if I go North east but went east(Lost 8 frames) it will not take away another 8 or 16 it will take away 0 plus the 8 you did already. So when rotating, diagonals don't matter.

300% grabbed = 600 frames....

Increase 1.7 every percent... Determined by 600-90 = 510
510/300

And 10% = 107 frames.... 107-90 = 17
17/10= 1.7.

Break Speeds held on ground / ground released...

ALL CHARACTERS EXCEPT NESS, LUCAS and DK will recover after being free from a grab at Frame 30.

DK recover - 20!

Ness recover - 40

Lucas recover - 40

Other stuff...

I decided since bowser can do so much stuff to people:

Bowser holding opponent time to recovery after break: 20 frames... This is why DK is invulnerable to Bowser's grab combos.

For everyone else IT'S 30, the same amount of time that Almost all characters recovery from escaping a characters grab this is why other characters don't have ground break release problems besides Ness and Lucas who recover at 40.

EXCEPT FOR SQUIRTLE who has a jiggly puff problem the producers of the game likely forgot a frame for he has a 29 frame recovery when holding his opponents....


JUMP BREAKS:

Mario - 50
Luigi - 50
Peach - 50
Bowser - 50
Donkey Kong - 50
Diddy Kong - 50
Yoshi - 50
Wario - 50! (Kind of sad he only gets it because he is so close to the opponent)
Link - 50
Zelda - 50
Sheik - 50
Ganondorf - 50
Toon Link - 50
Samus - 50
Zero Suit Samus - 50
Pit - 50
Popo - 50
R.O.B - 50
Kirby - 50
Meta Knight - 50
King Dedede - 50
Olimar - 50
Fox - 50
Falco - 50
Wolf - 50
Captain Falcon - 50
Pikachu - 50
Squirtle - 50
Ivysaur - 50
Charizard - 50
Lucario - 50
Jigglypuff - 49 (Lucky)
Marth - 50
Ike - 50
Ness - 50
Lucas - 50
Mr. Game & Watch - 50
Snake - 50
Sonic- 50

Wow everyone but Jiggly puff has a 50 frame jump break...

Jiggly puff has 49 probably a frame went missing back in the production of the game

Analysis

The only reason there are grab releases on jump breaks is because of the Path of certain character's jump breaks....


I still need to get shield stun for my Ness buddies...
Click to expand...
 
E

etecoon

Smash Hero
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
5,731
Katana_koden said:
Lol at panic button mashing.
It leads to accidental pausing and a loss at a tournament.
Click to expand...
this

it can also cause you to buffer an attack or dodge or something when the chain grabber messes up, allowing them to regrab you*has lost to IC's because of this* :/ if they're chain grabbing properly you can't mash out anyway
 
Orion*

Orion*

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Messages
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Punishment Divine said:
holy ****ing **** does...that work? omg
Click to expand...
thats what i was hoping
auroreon said:
Actually, setting the D-Pad to attack is pointless.
Having just spent 20 minutes testing mash-outs, the input that seems the have the largest effect is the control stick, so rotating the control stick as quickly as possible is, as far as I can tell, the fastest single way of mashing.
I tried combining this control stick rotation with other things to see if it increased the speed of mashing out, control stick + C-stick/R+L/D-Pad as attack didn't seem to make any difference, however I was able to mash out quickest by rotation the control stick as quickly as possible whilst mashing the A/B/X/Y buttons with the 3 middle fingers on my other hand.

The D-pad on attack was the slowest method I tried of mashing out, even mashing R and L was faster.
Click to expand...
but sadly :(

thanks for the thread bookmarked
 
Yung Mei

Yung Mei

Where all da hot anime moms at
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
5,341
Supreme Dirt said:
Except with unrestricted control editing, I'm pretty sure you can set DPad to Smash, so if a TO allows it, you could set DPad to Smash, having a much faster breakout time.
Click to expand...
you have to get permission to set custom controls?

wtfamireading
 
Zatchiel

Zatchiel

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auroreon said:
so rotating the control stick as quickly as possible is, as far as I can tell, the fastest single way of mashing.
Click to expand...
This pretty much sums what i was going to say. Control Stick rotation was the best and fastest way to escape from a Grab, IMO.
Unless setting the C-Stick to "Attack" plays a role? If so, that is completely out of my attention, and i must try that now o__o
 
-LzR-

-LzR-

Smash Hero
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Messages
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Isn't it like the same thing if you mash taunts of smashes with the dpad?
 
TheReflexWonder

TheReflexWonder

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e__ said:
Stop breaking your controller and losing matches trying to mash out of the IC chaingrab. After you reach a certain percent it's impossible to get out without them screwing up. Just wait so that you can take advantage when/if they do screw up.
Click to expand...
I hear that the noise my hands make when I press buttons on my controller is unnerving to people, which has saved me before.

As for perfect precision, the percent where it becomes impossible to break out varies from player to player, based on how many buttons can be pressed and how fast the Ice Climbers player can do each grab.
 
Rubberbandman

Rubberbandman

Smash Champion
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知らない
TheReflexWonder said:
As for perfect precision, the percent where it becomes impossible to break out varies from player to player, based on how many buttons can be pressed and how fast the Ice Climbers player can do each grab.
Click to expand...
This.
A frame perfect cg has about 7 frames to mash out. Past 75%, (Don't quote me on this though) its impossible for a human to mash out iirc.

This is still saying that its Bthrow > Dthrow. Bthrow > Fthrow would have less frames to get out of (dont know specifically). Dthrow >Fthrow perfectly has no frames to get out.

And while on the subject of icies infinites, hobbling can easily be mashed out of before 75% and doesnt work on sloped areas whatsoever., so please stop thinking its a valid infinite people. -.-
 
-LzR-

-LzR-

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Kinda pointless since the cstick is much better and Dpad is in an uncomfortable position.
 
Zatchiel

Zatchiel

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TheReflexWonder said:
Better to do a Smash attack than taunt in just about any situation.
Click to expand...
I disagree. Falcon's Dtaunt is god tier.

-LzR- said:
Kinda pointless since the cstick is much better and Dpad is in an uncomfortable position.
Click to expand...
That's differential from person to person, and it just depends on how you feel to play.
 
Adamated

Adamated

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
140
Location
Ohio
I've tried dpad to special to help with SHTL at times... nice on occasion.... hard to get used to.

Also, I mash buttons like crazy when i'm grabbed... no matter the character and I'm convinced that people seeing me push so many buttons just makes them more nervous.
 
Sharky

Sharky

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Oct 31, 2007
Messages
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with certain characters, mashing at higher percents is pointless because it's a lot easier to CG frame perfectly.

Some characters require harder CGs or more precise spacing, and are therefore easier to mash out with.

most people don't know how to mash correctly, and it frustrates me especially when I show them and they still can't get it right.

We should make a thread in the video section to showcase button mashing skills and make a mashing tutorial lol.

edit to QFT:

TheReflexWonder said:
I hear that the noise my hands make when I press buttons on my controller is unnerving to people, which has saved me before.

As for perfect precision, the percent where it becomes impossible to break out varies from player to player, based on how many buttons can be pressed and how fast the Ice Climbers player can do each grab.
Click to expand...
fast mashing definitely puts a lot more pressure on the IC, often forcing mistakes. I'd say this is almost equally as important as the actual mashing.
 
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