Matchup Re-Discussion: Bowser

ElNoNombreHombre · Sep 11, 2010

Pikachu vs. Bowser
( Link to central matchup thread. )

Resources for discussion:

Current MU Ratio (subject to change after discussion): 60:40 in Pikachu's favor
Can we CG him?: Yes

- 0% - 72% + regrab
- Fthrow x 11 > grab

Our Original Matchup Thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7208131
Their Matchup Opinion/Thread: 60:40 in Pikachu's favor, http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=211975

Pikachu Frame Data: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=223901
Bowser Frame Data: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=206219

Summary:

In progress.

Ussi · Sep 13, 2010

Good Pikas and Good Bowsers don't live near each other....

z00ted · Sep 13, 2010

How the **** is this 60:40? lol

Miquel0123 · Sep 14, 2010

60 40 xddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd

Rizk18 · Sep 14, 2010

whats the mu supposed to be

Pikabunz · Sep 14, 2010

They probably think it's worse for Bowser. Care to explain why you think it's not 60:40 guys?

Flayl · Sep 15, 2010

Flayl said:
Pikachu's buffered DThrow chaingrab doesn't work on Bowser, he can jump out. I can upload a vid if anybody wants.

I'm going to test DThrow -> NAir

DThrow -> SH NAir works at 80% if Dthrow is completely stale (not a very realistic scenario). It doesn't work if it's completely fresh (more realistic but certainly not impossible for Pikachu to overcome)

A completely fresh DThrow -> NAir on Bowser stops working between 60% and 70%. I'm not going to do any more work, it's the Pikachu boards' job now.

Might as well post this here.

Flayl · Sep 17, 2010

Relevant update:

Miquel0123 said:
Here marcbri's bowser vs my pika. bo5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPe_xsB7iGs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3PIFV4B01E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXPAmxV2tE8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf889cBw8HU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcqLIo65xT8

Marcbri's Bowser is too good.

Flayl said:
So let me see if understand this. You did a Bo5 against a pro Falco player that plays Ness & Ike in low tiers.

Game 1 ends with Miquel winning JV 2 stock
Game 2 ends with Marcbri winning at 89%
Game 3 ends with Miquel winning 2 stock high %
Game 4 ends with Marcbri winning at 109%
Game 5 ends with Miquel winning what would be JV 2 stock

I don't know about you, but if this isn't evidence the matchup isn't that bad I don't know what is.

If other Pikachus think the matchup is better than 60:40 they're going to have to step up.

Roller · Sep 17, 2010

Oh wow, the D-throw cg doesn't work..
If only pika had another throw to cg characters...

I have not scene anything that makes me feel the mu is any better/worse for pika than 60/40 honestly. Someone prove me wrong.

ElNoNombreHombre · Sep 17, 2010

Nah, I'd say 60:40 pika is about right. We can punish heavily with the fthrow cg, and Bowser's less-than-stellar recovery could lead to gimps/more damage getting back, which helps negate the survival advantage granted by being heavy. Pika's superior mobility can allow him to just play keepway if he wants.

Our fragility keeps this from being a landslide in favor of pikachu, though.

Flayl · Sep 17, 2010

Rollerking said:
Oh wow, the D-throw cg doesn't work..
If only pika had another throw to cg characters

No duh. Miquel was the one that came into our thread saying it did.

It turned out it was a case of poor english.

What stages would you prefer against Bowser? Final Destination? Rainbow Cruise?

What are your best options if you're caught in the middle of firebreath?

*Cam* · Sep 18, 2010

Let's worry about the ratio later and talk about the aspects of this matchup now. We've covered the chaingrab.

Someone address fortressing or Bowser's awesome jab/grab combos. I'm definitely not the right person to go into that in depth.

I did notice while watching an old match between Bking and Ixis that Bowser has a very large shield which isn't easily pressured by tjolts.

Miquel0123 · Sep 20, 2010

sorry I played wrong this matchup, because I'm very agressive and I'am not camping.
PD: Flayl, are you coming at nst4?

Flayl · Sep 20, 2010

Yeah, but my Bowser is worse than Marc's so beating me won't be much of an accomplishment.

~Radiance~ · Sep 20, 2010

at APEX i was pooled with KingKong. all i can remember is that pressuring bowsers shield close gets u up b'd oos and he was using koopa klaw alot on me -_-.

bowsers ftilt can really put alota space in there, so be carefull of that.

besides that i really cant remember too much, i really wasnt on top of my game in pools at APEX, i was to busy having fun to care about my pools LOL.

i noticed that lylat v bowser is not good. the ship makes it so our fthrow cg is null and void as he can up b out of it, so dont take him there

bowser kills early, watch out for spaced fair, dont spot dodge dtilt, careful about ftilt.

I honestly cant think of anythign else to say about this mu, the fthrow cg is great if u have the space and can get the grab in, just be careful not to fish for it since bowser can space well with his ftilt. besides the cg guess just try and camp as hard as you can, our jolts can keep coming, bowser's flame breath deteriorates, so camp if you can otherwise just bait his up b oos and juggle him with our combos, not much he can do if we are underneath him.

~automatic · Sep 20, 2010

lol I actually played a good Bowser yesterday. FZ Pretty much covered it. Up B OOS and powershield to Dtilt are things to look out for. The guy I played was pretty defensive which is something Bowser can do in this MU since Fair can't poke through that easily and jolts don't really pressure the shield as much. Bair and Uair below Bowser seem our be our best bets since Klaw will mostly be thrown out a lot once Bowser goes aerial for spacing and platform canceling.

I guess we say that getting the grab, putting Koopa offstage and not doing anything stupid are the main things to do in this MU.

Matchup Re-Discussion: Bowser

ElNoNombreHombre

Smash Journeyman

Ussi

Smash Legend

z00ted

The Assault of Laughter ﷼

Miquel0123

Smash Cadet

Rizk18

Smash Lord

Pikabunz

Smash Hero

Flayl

Smash Hero

Flayl

Smash Hero

Roller

Smash Legend

ElNoNombreHombre

Smash Journeyman

Flayl

Smash Hero

Cam

Smash Lord

Miquel0123

Smash Cadet

Flayl

Smash Hero

~Radiance~

Meow-Meow, Choco-Chow

~automatic

Smash Legend

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