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Falcon's Match-Up Chart thread

t3h Icy

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
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As part of the Melee Match-Up Chart thread, I've created a thread for each character board to split up discussion. Currently the Melee chart is based on a collaborative opinion on each match-up, while we're going to slowly move towards spreading the discussion.

For now, the Melee Match-Up Chart will represent both sides of what the boards think, so for example, the Fox boards and the Falco boards will both have their respective opinions listed on the chart, so (for example) Fox may be 50:50, while Falco may be 55:45. This will be similar to Rajam's style for the current Brawl chart, which seems to be working well and staying accurate. Perhaps afterward, we can try to trim things down to one value for each match-up, but that will be a step in the future.

Currently, there is no order in which to discuss match-ups, but I may guide them if needed.

This topic is for Falcon's match-ups. The format is the standard 0-100 (including 5s). Any opinions are helpful and appreciated, and once there's a consensus for a match-up, I'll add it to the match-up chart.

Thanks.
 

Roneblaster

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Sheik is like 60-40 to 65-35
-we can combo her

Spacies are 65-35 to 70-30
-we cant gain % by combing, other than comboes that work in every MU, and even some of them dont work.

Marth is like 55-45 to 60-40 Marth IMO
-We can do **** comboes, but he wins everything else.

Peach is Evenish

Ganon is like 60-40 for Falcon @ best
-we ****, but get edgeguarded easily

Samus is like 60-40 for us @ best

Doc is like 60-40 for us @ best
-we ****, but get edgeguarded easily

IC's is evenish



/past my bedtime opinions subject to change upon more sleep.
 

t3h Icy

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Don't let the banned moron derail stuff. >_>

Any pros care to help out? Are Scar/Hax's opinions still the same from before?
 

SM3EsH

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Sheik is like 60-40 to 65-35
-we can combo her

Spacies are 65-35 to 70-30
-we cant gain % by combing, other than comboes that work in every MU, and even some of them dont work.

Marth is like 55-45 to 60-40 Marth IMO
-We can do **** comboes, but he wins everything else.

Peach is Evenish

Ganon is like 60-40 for Falcon @ best
-we ****, but get edgeguarded easily

Samus is like 60-40 for us @ best

Doc is like 60-40 for us @ best
-we ****, but get edgeguarded easily

IC's is evenish



/past my bedtime opinions subject to change upon more sleep.
are you out of your mind?

- firstly, apart from various stages certainly making a difference in how the match ups are going to be affected...how are you going to say falcon is in any way beaten by ganon. and you say 60/40? no.

maybe at best 60/40 in falcons favor..now unless you mean it's in falcons favor..my bad.

- Doc..I can't really justify docs potential against falcon because I don't see that match up often. However, falcon does have a few advantages in that match as well as doc. Before I would put it in anyones favor, I would almost say they go even.

- IC's...Even? No. But then again, your gonna have to look at stages...blah blah blah. Theres no reason IC's should not beat falcon consistantly.

- Samus. I'm sure Samus has that one under her belt. If you think otherwise. Discuss...

- Marth, is a *****. I think I said in another thread Marth has Falcon 53/47 maybe 54/46 >.< All day.

- Falco, I'm sure goes 60/40 or better. = ****.

- Fox, not nearly as good as Falco. I'll put Fox in favor however, 56/44

You can't really give solid results on character match-ups unless you consider stages. I mean, that's a lot of things to consider. How do you want it?
 

Roneblaster

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ganon falcon is 60-40 for falcon

in samus falcon i just find that we have more comboes on samus than she has on us, and he only finishing moves are off stage or f-smash really, so i think its in our favor.

both spacies **** us.

it just depends, falcos with superb laser spacing and stage control are the best character in the game IMO, so they might be the hardest.

but a fox who just nair shines all day and comboes us out of grabs and doesnt let us do anything is just as bad.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
do we assume (near) perfection or general decent tourney player?

fox/falco/shiek 40-60 (varies by few points based on style).

looking at your chart i see fox/falco at 35-65 lol do you listen to n00b whiners or something?

jiggs- ? (probably jiggs favor if hbox style)

marth- EVEN (extremely gay for both sides, expect some whiners)

-whatever you pick it will cause people to get mad because they want to justify their losses. no doubt about it. This matchup is what defines melee imo, both have heavy advantages/disadvantages against each other, like fox/falco

falcon when he gets a hit in ideally 0 to deaths. He can get hit a million times/ live forever/ eventually die but as long as he gets his one hit in he can ****. Edgeguarding is EASY. Most throws at most percentages are auto-combos

Marth's sword outspaces/prioritizes everything. If he gets comboed you can't DI down and away like most other characters to escape you have to Smash DI/ Di in a weird direction. He controls the flow of the game until he gets hit. N-air beats everything except falcon's side-b which cleanly gets him

(mew2king isn't good at this matchup don't listen to him lol)

peach- 55-45 falcon's favor

icies- falcon's advantage but goes toward even as ic's get better 60-40 ---> about 50~50

samus- if hugs, then even, if not then 65-35 ( 50:50 or 65:35)

this is one of the reasons why i sorta dislike the matchup chart. We can either look at the 'mediocre' samuses of today or look at the only (2) samuses that don't suck ****. We can tell people that play samus that they can get expected to get butt ***** when really if they play close to perfect its much closer

every low, mid-tier samus i face i can beat usually soundly but hugs makes it seem even because he actually uses all of samus's tools effectively like crouch-cancel, edgeguarding (0 to death in a lot of cases), up-b (not like a noob where you get hit after), shield dropping off platforms to get to the ground quickly, etc


ganon/doc- 65-35 falcon

--

overall, i think straight up numbers are terrible. (slight/big) Advantage/Disadvantage imo is way better since style differences will shift matchups in one direction or another

saying a characters wins 52.30913/47.1309477u04297094370971089hrqw0fi8hq is pretty useless
 

SM3EsH

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I'd like to believe we would assume the potential of a character...not saying hugs this...hbox that. we pull a characters ability, their potential then poof...there ya go. but i mean, even after seeing that post. this may be my last one. :D unless I'm in the wrong thread hopefully this one closes soon.

lol im sorry i posted in here. i mean, unless you give me some kind of decent reasoning? what's the point of this thread.

you just say, well...falcon beats samus. okay, how man? what does falcon have? what does samus have? who makes the other approach, who punishes easier. I mean, you're obviously a waste of someones time if that's all your gonna do is say...falcon beats samus. your a donk.

do you play a samus? have you ever played a samus? do you understand samus' move set? how about stage advantages...i mean, if this thread is going to be anything serious before it becomes a joke then give me some kind of legitimate reason why...
 

CaptainRanD0

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I'd like to believe we would assume the potential of a character...not saying hugs this...hbox that. we pull a characters ability, their potential then poof...there ya go. but i mean, even after seeing that post. this may be my last one. :D unless I'm in the wrong thread hopefully this one closes soon.

lol im sorry i posted in here. i mean, unless you give me some kind of decent reasoning? what's the point of this thread.

you just say, well...falcon beats samus. okay, how man? what does falcon have? what does samus have? who makes the other approach, who punishes easier. I mean, you're obviously a waste of someones time if that's all your gonna do is say...falcon beats samus. your a donk.

do you play a samus? have you ever played a samus? do you understand samus' move set? how about stage advantages...i mean, if this thread is going to be anything serious before it becomes a joke then give me some kind of legitimate reason why...
you didn't give much decent reasoning either, just saying.
ask yourself the same questions you made at the end of your post.
 

_Rocky_

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s2j: agree with you on nearly everything except for marth and peach

I like to think that falcon has a strong advantage vs marth (around 60-40 if put in numbers) but this matchup is probably where style factors in more than anywhere else in the whole game imo

more passive falcons like hax tend to **** marths while darkrain almost always makes the matchup seem even

how did you reason on falcon only having a small advantage vs peach?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
s2j: agree with you on nearly everything except for marth and peach

I like to think that falcon has a strong advantage vs marth (around 60-40 if put in numbers) but this matchup is probably where style factors in more than anywhere else in the whole game imo

more passive falcons like hax tend to **** marths while darkrain almost always makes the matchup seem even

how did you reason on falcon only having a small advantage vs peach?
ur probably right about peach my experience playing them isn't as great as the spacies and overall not too good against any floatys (except doc/mario due to scorpion master)

Playing the talented peaches in Socal, fighting a standard/technical peach i'd say its about 60/40 but playing a weird, aggressive peach like MacD makes it seem like 55/45 falcon.

no doubt about it though falcon has an advantage, but imo not as much as you'd think

--

on marth:

If you judge Hax ****** marth's maybe. Hax is talented though with reflexes as good as Mangos, he's a definite level above most 'top' marths today

it's too close to say its anything other than 50/50 imo. Current trends though marth still sux dix against falcons because they suk
 

Stratocaster

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My list of opinions (listed Falcon-Opponent)

35-65 Falco
40-60 Fox
40-60 Sheik
40-60 Puff
50-50 Marth
50-50 Pika
55-45 IC
55-45 Peach
60-40 Doc
60-40 Mario
65-35 Samus
65-35 Ganon
65-35 DK
65-35 Luigi
70-30 Roy
70-30 Link
70-30 YLink
75-25 Zelda
75-25 Mewtwo
75-25 Yoshi
75-25 G&W
75-25 Pichu
80-20 Bowser
80-20 Ness
80-20 Kirby

Feel free to strongly disagree and flame and junk. All the match-ups are too complex to really dissect, and I'm positive I'm wrong about plenty of them.
 

t3h Icy

Smash Master
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Doc 60-40
Falco 65-35ish?
Fox rather ****-ish?
Ganon 60-40/65-35?
ICs 50ish?
Marth Even?
Peach 55-45ish?
Samus 60-40/65-35?
Sheik 60-40/65-35?

Just to gather. What do you guys think about Puff?

Also S2J, the whiners about Fox/Falco are Hax and Scar. =P
 

ETWIST51294

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you just say, well...falcon beats samus. okay, how man? what does falcon have? what does samus have? who makes the other approach, who punishes easier. I mean, you're obviously a waste of someones time if that's all your gonna do is say...falcon beats samus. your a donk.

do you play a samus? have you ever played a samus? do you understand samus' move set? how about stage advantages...i mean, if this thread is going to be anything serious before it becomes a joke then give me some kind of legitimate reason why...
Falcon beats Samus cuz i said so, now GTFO of my boards.

Honestly, Me, Blastroner, s2j, etc, have spelled out the samus mu many times in the general discussion thread and we most likely don't wanna do it again especially since we already know who loses.
 

Roneblaster

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ganon falcon is like 60-40.

falcon doesnt 65-35 well vs any tourney viable character. but that doesnt mean he doesnt have good MU's.

ganon can get 3 hits then edgeguard us. its so stupid. but to counter that we have to potential to kill every time we hit.

and i just wanna say, based my really bad style of playing the character, i have more "fun" fighting spacies than marth/sheik.
 

legion598

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agree with S2J. I consider falco harder than fox and shiek but thats probly just my style of play. I also consider peach to be 60:40 falcons adv and pikachu to be even. As for marth I see it as even and sometimes stretching toward 55:45 marth adv

as for stage specifics if were getting into that. pikachu actually gains an adv on FD I want to say 60:40. FD and open air stages move the marth matchup more on the even side and other stages YOSHIS STORY cause it to suck. fox gets more adv on yoshis possibly moving it to 65:35. open air stages give peach fewer options to get out of your ridiculous combos. too lazy to continue...
 

Dart!

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IMO every character destroys falcon in some way. players that cover falcons jump out of shield and trap him with his back turned in his shield will **** him.
 
D

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every matchup below pika is almost irrelevant since you can literally n-air your way to victory
 

Stratocaster

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IMO every character destroys falcon in some way. players that cover falcons jump out of shield and trap him with his back turned in his shield will **** him.
If someone gets behind you while you're in your shield. Reverse Up B, say YES! and profit. On platforms you can drop down and uair or bair. Seriously though this is a very small percentage of the situations that come up, and he will not be ***** in that situation. At worst you'll get grabbed, which usually isn't a death sentence or anything in most cases.

Also the reverse up B trick OoS was taught to me... well taught to Hax while I was sitting right beside him by Chops. So if you think its a stupid idea than talk to Chops about it.
 

Bamesy

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...making interesting maneuvers in the Okanagan...
I have a way harder time vs Fox and Shiek than I do Falco.
Fox pressure is tough to get away from. You can at least reset vs Falco.
Shiek is a wall that you shall not pass!


Luigi and Mario are still viable, even barely.
It's DK/Link/etc that it becomes hopeless.
 

Leviathan741

Smash Ace
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Falcon Sheik seems good

However Falcon vs Puff should be 60-40 puff at least

Fox and Falco are good,

Falcon vs marth is definently even

Falcon vs Peach should be even and not 55 falcon
 

KirbyKaze

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idk it's tough as balls for peach to have good spacing vs falcon's movement game

and on stages that aren't fd or yoshi's story (yoshi's is too small and plats are placed weirdly for really long combos) i think his combos tend to be better

peach doesn't gimp him as well as the top tiers do
 
D

Deleted member

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u can literally wall peach on FD even though she has a chain grab you can play like a bich and she'll never get in
 

TemPesT-

Smash Lord
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Falcon vs shiek is MADGAY i hate that matchup with a passion.

*you approach* you get tilted, or out prioritized in countless ways.

*you get a grab* :D ZOMG maybe a small combo

*SHIEK GETS A GRAB* D: she'll prob tech chase you to death or off stage for an easy edge guard :(

*you try to play it slow and make her approach* she needle camps you.

it's just dumb. just my opinion :p
 
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