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Jigglypuff's Match-Up Chart thread

t3h Icy

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As part of the Melee Match-Up Chart thread, I've created a thread for each character board to split up discussion. Currently the Melee chart is based on a collaborative opinion on each match-up, while we're going to slowly move towards spreading the discussion.

For now, the Melee Match-Up Chart will represent both sides of what the boards think, so for example, the Fox boards and the Falco boards will both have their respective opinions listed on the chart, so (for example) Fox may be 50:50, while Falco may be 55:45. This will be similar to Rajam's style for the current Brawl chart, which seems to be working well and staying accurate. Perhaps afterward, we can try to trim things down to one value for each match-up, but that will be a step in the future.

Currently, there is no order in which to discuss match-ups, but I may guide them if needed.

This topic is for Jigglypuff's match-ups. The format is the standard 0-100 (including 5s). Any opinions are helpful and appreciated, and once there's a consensus for a match-up, I'll add it to the match-up chart.

Thanks.
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
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vs fox 45:55
vs falco 50:50
vs sheik 55:45
vs marth 45:55
vs peach 55:45
vs falcon 55:45
vs ICs 55:45
vs samus 60:40
vs ganon 60:40
vs doc 50:50
vs mario 60:40
vs pikachu 60:40
vs dk 60:40
vs luigi 65:35
vs link 60:40
vs zelda 60:40
vs mewtwo 65:35
vs roy 70:30
vs young link 60:40
vs g&w 70:30
vs yoshi 75:25
vs ness 80:20
vs pichu 80:20
vs bowser 85:15
vs kirby 75:25
 

G.L.

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puff officially has advantage over marth now lol. thats hilarious but so true. id say these are pretty acurate except id say puff vs fox is 50=50 but i can see why people think its 45 55 in fox's favor. it just sucks for everyone because she cant be combo'd!
 

GreatRit

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45:55 is a little bit of an exaggeration for Marth I think...It's more like 35-65 tbh because Marth just outranges her. Of course it's Mango or HBox with the spacing then it's still pretty much 50-50...
eh 60:40 Puff on Pikachu? Not rly, it's more like 70:30 pikachu since he has the massive upsmash right?
50:50 on Doc? Don't know much about Doc but I really don't think thats the case lol...
 

FoxLisk

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45:55 is a little bit of an exaggeration for Marth I think...It's more like 35-65 tbh because Marth just outranges her. Of course it's Mango or HBox with the spacing then it's still pretty much 50-50...
eh 60:40 Puff on Pikachu? Not rly, it's more like 70:30 pikachu since he has the massive upsmash right?
50:50 on Doc? Don't know much about Doc but I really don't think thats the case lol...
if you dont know what you're talking about, ask questions instead of stating things like you do.
 

idea

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marth wins the battle of single hits, but jigglypuff can actually KILL him.

hmm...it occurs to me i don't really have a number in mind for most of these. anyway, imho...

vs fox 40:60 or 45:55
vs falco 50:50
vs sheik 60:40
vs marth 55:45
vs peach 60:40
vs falcon 60:40 or 55:45 (this is the one i'm least sure about)
vs ICs - i've never played an ICs in tourney except wobbles, when wobbling was on :laugh: but it feels like 55:45...ish.
 

cablepuff

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i want to see mango's number.

[21:37] PrrettyMango69: UMMM
[21:37] PrrettyMango69: its hard to say
[21:37] PrrettyMango69: puff CAN be even
[21:37] PrrettyMango69: but she can easily get *****
[21:39] cablepuff: so all of htem are 50+ against puff
[21:39] cablepuff: marth vs puff 55 45.
[21:39] cablepuff: sheik vs puff 53 47
[21:39] cablepuff: falco and falcon both 52 48
[21:39] cablepuff: and peach 51 49?
[21:40] PrrettyMango69: yeah
[21:40] PrrettyMango69: u could say that


oh also said fox vs puff is 60 40.
 

t3h Icy

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Fox has speed, all the upward killing tools and setups, lasers and can shine for extra, up close ground options. Nairing with Fox helps a lot. I've always thought it was 60:40, but some stages like FoD it might lean a bit more to 55:45.
 

Tamoo

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My opinion from my experience:

vs fox 40:60
vs falco 50:50
vs sheik 55:45
vs marth 60:40
vs peach 55:45
vs falcon 55:45
vs ICs 60:40 (With no wobbling, although blizzoblings a bit of a pain now)
vs samus 60:40
vs ganon 60:40
vs doc 50:50
vs mario 65:35
vs pikachu 60:40
vs dk 60:40
vs luigi 55:45
vs link 60:40
vs zelda 70:30
vs mewtwo 70:30
vs roy 70:30
vs young link 55:45
vs g&w 65:35
vs yoshi 70:30
vs ness 80:20
vs pichu 80:20
vs bowser 80:20
vs kirby 80:20
 

Mahone

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I can only talk about matchups i have had experience in so:

vs fox 45:55
vs falco 50:50
vs sheik 60:40
vs marth 45:55
vs peach 55:45
vs falcon 55:45
vs ICs 55:45
vs ganon 55:45
vs doc 40:60
vs mario 60:40
vs pikachu 55:45
vs luigi 45:55


Feel free to ask about any matchups and I'll be sure to answer your questions.
 

cablepuff

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doc is not harder than fox.

and i definitely think peach, falcon , luigi, ganon is not easier than sheik.
 

hungrybox

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i want to see mango's number.

[21:37] PrrettyMango69: UMMM
[21:37] PrrettyMango69: its hard to say
[21:37] PrrettyMango69: puff CAN be even
[21:37] PrrettyMango69: but she can easily get *****
[21:39] cablepuff: so all of htem are 50+ against puff
[21:39] cablepuff: marth vs puff 55 45.
[21:39] cablepuff: sheik vs puff 53 47
[21:39] cablepuff: falco and falcon both 52 48
[21:39] cablepuff: and peach 51 49?
[21:40] PrrettyMango69: yeah
[21:40] PrrettyMango69: u could say that


oh also said fox vs puff is 60 40.
puff shiek is 60 40 imo
 

idea

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honestly, it's gonna happen eventually. as soon as she misspaces SOMETHING, or dash attacks you at the wrong percent...or when she hits your shield just the wrong way...
 

Mahone

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doc is not harder than fox.

and i definitely think peach, falcon , luigi, ganon is not easier than sheik.
If doc plays matchup correctly, then yes it is, you have barely any rest set ups, he has the best rest punish, downthrow fair kill at "high" percents, while downthrow dair racks up damage, he can use pills to completely control space, if his di is good and he has a smart recovery he is very hard to edgeguard, jab to downsmash is ****, his nair *****.

No one said they were easier than shiek did they?

honestly, it's gonna happen eventually. as soon as she misspaces SOMETHING, or dash attacks you at the wrong percent...or when she hits your shield just the wrong way...
Ya, its not super theory bros, i've played sheiks that have played matchup and they get rested less, but it still happens, there are just WAY to many things you can rest, its really bad for shiek.
 

idea

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"puff sheik
60 40"

and i don't think i would say that doc is harder than fox, although to be fair there are only like 3 good doc mains and i haven't played any of them *shrug* but based on the ones i have played, it feels around even...but i could see why it would be called doc's favour too.

either way, i'm firmly convinced that fox is jiggs' worst matchup.
 

victra♥

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is jiggs and falco actually considered to be even? Not that i'm disagreeing with that, I'm just curious.
 

cablepuff

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if puff sheik is 60 40

than puff vs samus, ganodorf, falcon, peach, mario is 65 35.

puff doc is 60 40
puff falco is 60 40.

[edit] and if we go by what kirby board does...[/edit]

puff samus hsould be 95 5,
puff peach should be 95 5....
puff mario should be 95 5
 

Tamoo

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I don't really think so, i've had a lot more trouble with falcos in the past than i have with any of the cast other than fox.

also shiek is pretty easy. I've only recently started struggling with the matchup as a new UK shiek style has ememrged which is to simply camp for four stocks lol but i still feel it's eaasier than falcon or peach.

As for mario and ganon, i agree they're pretty easy but not moreso than shiek imo, well maybe mario.

I may be changing my puff shiek mu to 60-40 aswell, i thought it was too drastic at first but it's not an exaggeration i don't think.
 

Mahone

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"puff sheik
60 40"

and i don't think i would say that doc is harder than fox, although to be fair there are only like 3 good doc mains and i haven't played any of them *shrug* but based on the ones i have played, it feels around even...but i could see why it would be called doc's favour too.

either way, i'm firmly convinced that fox is jiggs' worst matchup.
I see what you are saying, but i think you will just have to take my word on this. It's one of those things where the difference between an ok doc and a good doc is HUGE. I think the only docs that play the matchup right are Shroomed and Boss (and prob HMW, but iv'e never seen him play it), and i played Boss like everyday in the summer. I will say however, that the good foxes i play are people like chinesah and chillin, who i don't believe play the matchup correctly, so i can't say for sure that fox isn't worse.

if puff sheik is 60 40

than puff vs samus, ganodorf, falcon, peach, mario is 65 35.

puff doc is 60 40
puff falco is 60 40.

[edit] and if we go by what kirby board does...[/edit]

puff samus hsould be 95 5,
puff peach should be 95 5....
puff mario should be 95 5
Can you explain why instead of just putting out number?

Jiggs beats Falco. Falco players are in denial.
I actually think this is similiar to sheik, where they can avoid rests and gimps if they play the matchup right, but this isn't super theory bros so its bound to happen....

However Drpp has actually played the matchup in such a way that it is even time and time again, while no sheik has ever played a top jiggs and shown how to play it so it's even (lucien seems to know the matchup, id like to see him vs hbox).
I'm not sure if that is just Drpp being godlike or it actually being possible for falco to play it right consistently, so it's hard to say what the falco matchup really is.
 

cablepuff

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Q

peach has harder time camping jiggs than sheik. also its just as easy even easier to rest than sheik. turnip are not good projectile because it takes time.. to load... where you can shield pressure peach. where as needle might not be as good in terms of damage but comes out fast.

lets not talk about samus.... almost any hit to jiggly shield is rest... and her missing a grab is a lot worse. She does have a plus side of her recovery but other than that jiggs move has more priority on her than sheik.

me, tope, mango, umberomow all think sheik has the advantage and have her as one of the top 3 hardest matchup for her. (lol we all agree fox as number one by far).

sheik should grab as little as possible against jiggs... !!!!!!

let me summarize what mango told me [sheik has the advantage/even. just that 98 percent of the sheiks plays the match up wrong or are worse than the opponent]

* edit *
i really think sheik should camp harder than this to play the match up correctly.

camping hard
 

cablepuff

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However Drpp has actually played the matchup in such a way that it is even time and time again, while no sheik has ever played a top jiggs and shown how to play it so it's even (lucien seems to know the matchup, id like to see him vs hbox).
I'm not sure if that is just Drpp being godlike or it actually being possible for falco to play it right consistently, so it's hard to say what the falco matchup really is.

--- its even for falco imho.
 

Mahone

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peach has harder time camping jiggs than sheik. also its just as easy even easier to rest than sheik. turnip are not good projectile because it takes time.. to load... where you can shield pressure peach. where as needle might not be as good in terms of damage but comes out fast.

lets not talk about samus.... almost any hit to jiggly shield is rest... and her missing a grab is a lot worse. She does have a plus side of her recovery but other than that jiggs move has more priority on her than sheik.

me, tope, mango, umberomow all think sheik has the advantage and have her as one of the top 3 hardest matchup for her. (lol we all agree fox as number one by far).

sheik should grab as little as possible against jiggs... !!!!!!

let me summarize what mango told me [sheik has the advantage/even. just that 98 percent of the sheiks plays the match up wrong or are worse than the opponent]

* edit *
i really think sheik should camp harder than this to play the match up correctly.

camping hard
First of all, i agree with samus, but i don't have enough experience which is why i didn't include numbers for her.

I don't think a good argument is that mango says its true. If you look at the first page of stuff about puff, you will see that bowser has an advantage over puff, i would rather make judgements based on high level play and some theory... camp harder is not enough of an argument. If mango really wants to show it is true, he should play sheik against hbox, not just tell you on aim that it is good.

Don't get me wrong, i have always felt that sheik could do a lot better if she played the matchup correctly, but until a sheik actually does it i remain a skeptic. Also i have played tope a lot, and while he consistantly 2 stocked me, i remember him telling me it was a bad matchup in general and one of his worse matchups.

Uhh.. peach has a lot easier time camping puff and is a lot harder to rest than sheik, here is a video that is a good example of that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5u39LxgyuI
 

cablepuff

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Also i have played tope a lot, and while he consistantly 2 stocked me, i remember him telling me it was a bad matchup in general and one of his worse matchups
the number makes jiggly look harder than icy, fox, falco when in reality all those 3 do better on sheik, escepcially icy and all of htem are at 55 45.

well we can all agree on one thing jiggly ***** kirby enough said.
 

idea

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I don't really think so, i've had a lot more trouble with falcos in the past than i have with any of the cast other than fox.

also shiek is pretty easy. I've only recently started struggling with the matchup as a new UK shiek style has ememrged which is to simply camp for four stocks lol but i still feel it's eaasier than falcon or peach.
i know what you mean, falco gives me lots of trouble >_< but my region basically lacks falco mains so i don't have nearly as much experience with him as with the other good characters. my FEELING is that falco beats jiggs, but i might be biased, so i compromise and say even.

sheik camping is one of the more annoying types of camping. fortunately she doesn't really profit that much from it, it's just really irritating.

I see what you are saying, but i think you will just have to take my word on this. It's one of those things where the difference between an ok doc and a good doc is HUGE. I think the only docs that play the matchup right are Shroomed and Boss (and prob HMW, but iv'e never seen him play it), and i played Boss like everyday in the summer. I will say however, that the good foxes i play are people like chinesah and chillin, who i don't believe play the matchup correctly, so i can't say for sure that fox isn't worse.
can't really argue back since i don't have doc experience, so... /input
 

Ocean

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falco is my best matchup, due to the crapload of falco mains in NC.

in my opinion, its 55-45 jiggs. falco generally has a tough time getting in against a good jiggs, and a lot of his staple combos don't work on her.
 

Republican0fHeaven

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falco is my best matchup, due to the crapload of falco mains in NC.

in my opinion, its 55-45 jiggs. falco generally has a tough time getting in against a good jiggs, and a lot of his staple combos don't work on her.
Falco is def a good matchup except on YS except with that double shine off the ceiling. But YS generally sucks for Jiggs anyway. Other than that, avoid the lazers and learn to beat any of your opponents patterns by altering your own bair spam. One grab can mean a stock at mid or even low percentage considering some decent edge-guarding. Falco off stage is a bird without wings
 

Tamoo

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hehe ys is like my fav stage against every character other than marth, shiek and bowser lol

the opponent is always soooo close to your rest hitbox on that stage :)

and they'll always die rather than di it back
 

idea

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lol yeah i like yoshi's too, the whole stage is a ledge. but i always ban it against marth 'cause of random tippers. i find it's a good counterpick against campy foxes, but kind of risky with the low ceiling.
 

FoxLisk

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lol yeah i like yoshi's too, the whole stage is a ledge. but i always ban it against marth 'cause of random tippers. i find it's a good counterpick against campy foxes, but kind of risky with the low ceiling.
this is sort of bad advice. i play a pretty campy fox on big stages, and that's what I prefer, but when I'm on YS I'm not going to just pretend I can camp it. even campy players (of a reasonable skill level) know how to be more aggressive, and then you're just playing a more aggressive fox on the worst stage for it.
 

idea

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that's true. but i think saying someone is a versatile fox is the same as saying they're a good fox, in which case i wouldn't counterpick them to yoshi's. but some people are pretty good and still tend toward aggressiveness or defensiveness (for instance, shiz for over-aggressiveness)...so someone who's really really campy will generally be worse at aggression than most foxes.

but yeah, it's risky so i usually just go to battlefield anyway. tricky edges, pretty high ceiling, not too big or too small. FoD is probably good for similar reasons + platforms that bother most other characters, but i keep forgetting to try that one in tournament.
 

FoxLisk

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I think FoD is jiggs second-best neutral against fox.

anyway, yeah. i think if you're playing a fox badly enough to not be able to adapt to the stage you're playing on and play more aggressively on YS, you dont need to worry much about what stage you go to because he's probably pretty bad. so you might as well go wherever you feel comfortable, so if you like playing on YS, go for it.
 

Tamoo

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even if the fox know how to be aggresive, I'd rather play fox on ys because it forces him to be aggresive rather than give him the option to camp, and aggresive foxes i can, and i think jiggs can definitely handle.
 

idea

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right, i should have mentioned that. aggressive fox is way easier to deal with in general. that's more like an even matchup.

(mango's fox doesn't count)
 

FoxLisk

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oh wow. if you say so. my fox is my secondary, so i feel uncomfortable talking as if i main him, but even as a fairly campy player, if i'm playing vs puff, i'd MUCH rather play aggressive on YS than campy on DL. it's so, so much easier to win. however uncomfortable it might make your opponent, the stage just effects the matchup a huge amount, and it seems wrong to just give the fox a free huge stage-based advantage.
 

Republican0fHeaven

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Really? Aggressive foxes can be punished sure but on YS they get a few grabs uair you're done. Actually you're pretty much done when you choose not to ban YS if its an even matchup of skill
 
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