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Sheik's Match-Up Chart thread

t3h Icy

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
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As part of the Melee Match-Up Chart thread, I've created a thread for each character board to split up discussion. Currently the Melee chart is based on a collaborative opinion on each match-up, while we're going to slowly move towards spreading the discussion.

For now, the Melee Match-Up Chart will represent both sides of what the boards think, so for example, the Fox boards and the Falco boards will both have their respective opinions listed on the chart, so (for example) Fox may be 50:50, while Falco may be 55:45. This will be similar to Rajam's style for the current Brawl chart, which seems to be working well and staying accurate. Perhaps afterward, we can try to trim things down to one value for each match-up, but that will be a step in the future.

Currently, there is no order in which to discuss match-ups, but I may guide them if needed.

This topic is for Sheik's match-ups. The format is the standard 0-100 (including 5s). Any opinions are helpful and appreciated, and once there's a consensus for a match-up, I'll add it to the match-up chart.

Thanks.
 

Ministry

Smash Ace
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Messages
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Location
Europe
disadvantage mango
advantage everyone.

this is a pointless chart. when it comes down to it, you just pick a character and **** anyway.

teczero it depends if the person mains sheik, if they do they have an auto advantage against people who secondary sheik (you!!)
 

Ministry

Smash Ace
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sorry third sheik.

fox marth sheik

you told me at apex you don't main sheik lol.

yeah i heard drephen is really good at the ditto, all that ****ty dsmash...
 

Teczer0

Research Assistant
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Oh true.

Well at Apex, I used sheik and fox about the same amount. Thats why I *claim* I'm not technically one.

But I've been going sheik vs just about everyone so yea I'm rocking that sheik main status now :)
 

Tero.

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
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Fox: 45 (might be 50)
Falco: 45
Jiggs: 45
Marth: 60 (55 in PAL)

Falcon: 65 (60 in PAL)
Peach: 55 (50 in PAL)
Ganon: 70 (might be 65; 65/60 in PAL)
Ice Climbers: 55 (might be 60, might be 50, IC are lol)

Samus: 75
Doc: 70
Mario: 70
Pikachu: 70

The rest is negligible.
 

Banks

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I'd like to hear what Sheik mains think of Sheik/Puff. What number would you put on it, and whats the reasoning?
having played darc through the years as the jigglypuff 'metagayme' advanced, i find it funny how the matchup changed. i remember when darc beat pc's fox, pc went sheik, and pc/cort etc used to 'counterpick' his jigglypuff with sheik (~2007 or something)

but now that ten thousand ways to rest sheik have been perfected and grabbing/dash attack is so dangerous because all jigglys are crouch wh0res, i think it forces people to do other stuff (probably ppl used to grabbing and dash attacking.) so it seems like jigglypuff has an advantage in some ways to those people but if you learn all her gimmicks and don't fall for them, and don't stand around and get utilted like a doof, it doesn't seem so bad
 

Pita

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having played darc through the years as the jigglypuff 'metagayme' advanced, i find it funny how the matchup changed. i remember when darc beat pc's fox, pc went sheik, and pc/cort etc used to 'counterpick' his jigglypuff with sheik (~2007 or something)

but now that ten thousand ways to rest sheik have been perfected and grabbing/dash attack is so dangerous because all jigglys are crouch wh0res, i think it forces people to do other stuff (probably ppl used to grabbing and dash attacking.) so it seems like jigglypuff has an advantage in some ways to those people but if you learn all her gimmicks and don't fall for them, and don't stand around and get utilted like a doof, it doesn't seem so bad
Big stages where you can needle camp with low ceilings seem to make life easier on the matchup too.
 

G.L.

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
181
i think sheik puff is like 60-40 in puffs favor. sheik can rack up damage pretty well, but she cant kill. puff also works around alot of sheik go to moves like down smash. latley ive been getting the puff to above 70% and then transforming to zelda. then i would just get a bair or fair, which is a kill. its pretty risky but i think killing puff with sheik almost harder than going zelda, atleast for me.
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
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I dont think its that bad. While risky, any grab will lead into guaranteed kill. fair, bair, and uair are all kill moves and decent spacing moves. The only hard part is getting around puff's gay bair camping that everyone sux vs
 

Pita

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I dont think its that bad. While risky, any grab will lead into guaranteed kill. fair, bair, and uair are all kill moves and decent spacing moves. The only hard part is getting around puff's gay bair camping that everyone sux vs
Throw moar needlez?
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
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Sheik's matchups

Fox - Simpsons Christmas Boogie
Falco - is a band
Marth - a - Stewart
Puff - then pass
Peach - No, Calimyrna Fig
Falcon - Poncho
ICs - Wobbles
Samus - Other M
Doc - Turbo Troll
Ganon - Sheik wins

Don't ask how much she wins by
 

h!tboxexplo!ter

Smash Ace
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fox 55-45
jiggs 60-40 maybe?? i feel that there are things sheiks could do that have yet to happen
falco 45-55
icies 50-50
peach 40-60 (dont do it amsah :p)
falcon 35-65
sheik vs sheik 14m3-14m3

thats my opinion on the controversial matchups. i wont bother with the other ones, mostly because its hard to quantitate degrees of ****
 

Phatgamer1

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I'm probably the only sheik main that likes the matchup. I'd give sheik the advantage. I don't want to throw out numbers right now but I still want to believe it's in sheik's favor. This is all in regards to the sheik/puff matchup. :p
 

OkamiBW

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I'd personally say these...

(Sheik-X) where X is the other character
Fox 45-55
Falco 50-50
Puff 50-50
Marth 55-45 (at higher levels) 100-0 (at lower levels)
Falcon 63-37
Peach 50-50
ICs 45-55
Samus 60-40
Ganon 65-35
Doc 60-40
Luigi 60-40
Mario 75-25
Pikachu 85-15
Mewtwo 75-25
Everyone else 65-35 or better (I believe)
 

KirbyKaze

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not her favour but close to even / even - fox falco

her favour by enough - marth peach falcon

her favour by more - ganon doc luigi mario link

i'm not sure about samus, ics, or puff since i don't have sufficient experience against them.
 

Marc

Relic of the Past
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Matchup ratios are incredibly silly for various reasons, so I'll also make clear what I'm trying to convey.

Fox: Small disadvantage, might be worse in NTSC (I guess you'd say 45-55 or 40-60).
Jigglypuff: Sheik's worst matchup (35-65, beyond soft counter at least).
Falco: Small advantage (55-45).
Marth: Solid advantage (60-40).
Peach: Solid advantage in NTSC (60-40), solid disadvantage in PAL (40-60). Amsah would probably say it's closer to even in NTSC and worse in PAL.

It gets tougher from here on out.

For Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, Samus and Doc I'd say Sheik beats them solidly in PAL (60-40), Ganondorf is obviously easier in NTSC. Some others might get easier in NTSC too, but I'm not sure it's to the point where it changes the matchup. Note that these matchups still need to be explored more, especially since the best mains of those characters all live in the US, where Sheik is mostly absent and would also suffer from matchup inexperience. I really need to see Amsah vs SilentSpectre, Kage, HugS and Shroomed before I'm willing to make stronger statements on these matchups. Based on my own experiences, I can see some of them getting to 65-35 (in NTSC at least), but any more than that would suggest an almost unloseable matchup and that's clearly not the case as all these characters are still somewhat viable. Ganondorf might get that bad though.

I think Sheik loses to Ice Climbers, but platform camping goes a long way in making up for weaknesses and Amsah vs ChuDat needs to happen badly.

Everything else is auto-win in NTSC or outright unexplored.
 

KirbyKaze

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Sheik is fine vs Fox you need to do bigger combos and edgeguard him properly. And gay him with range (and crouch cancel).

I figured Sheik ***** Samus but I still don't have experience. Kira says every Samus but HugS is ezmode, go figure.
 

KirbyKaze

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Looking at Mango, though, Ganondorf is one of the few characters he can actually lose to.

Ganondorf must counter Puff, Falco, and Falcon.
 

gm jack

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I suspect that is more to do with the gulf between the best US fox's and the best european foxes (Zgatto I believe). Zgetto didn't do too great in comparison to Amsah when he went to the US, so although Amsah has him as someone he can practice with, people like lucky and jman seem to be on a whole new level.
 

Marc

Relic of the Past
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Looking at Mango, though, Ganondorf is one of the few characters he can actually lose to.

Ganondorf must counter Puff, Falco, and Falcon.
... -_-

Mango only lost to Kage once after getting drunk, while Amsah has lost to Zgetto, Remen and Lucky, as well as dropping a game to (I believe) Pasi from Germany. Amsah exclusively mains Sheik and is the best by far. If you want to look beyond him, Captain Jack lost to Masashi a lot.

I suspect that is more to do with the gulf between the best US fox's and the best european foxes (Zgatto I believe). Zgetto didn't do too great in comparison to Amsah when he went to the US, so although Amsah has him as someone he can practice with, people like lucky and jman seem to be on a whole new level.
Against Amsah Zgetto really isn't inferior to American Foxes (he might even be better because PAL Fox is worse). I also think he had a fairly strong showing at Pound, considering how stacked it was.
 
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