Ike Matchup Export~

Ishiey · Sep 19, 2010

Ike

Current Ratio:
What to look out for:
How they will KO you:
Best/Worst spacing zone:
Campy or Aggressive?:
Tricksies:
Wolf’s most powerful tool:
Chaingrabs/Tilt Locks?:
What to do when offstage:
Stages
- Strike:
- Ban:
- Pick:

Goldenadept · Sep 20, 2010

Current Ratio: 60/40 wolf imo
What to look out for: his godly jab, FF nair, well space FF fairs, getting punished for rolling, landing with usmash, bthrow into dash attack off the stage, edge guarding against aether.

How they will KO you: fair and bair seem to be the best kill moves ike has (that're easier to land on wolf) ftilt, uair and usmash to a lesser extent, if you're predictable or mess up then fsmash dsmash, dtilt

Best/Worst spacing zone: best spacing zone i think would be center stage, at the edges even if you have low % a lot of his moves can send you off and put you in a bad spot. ike will have trouble keeping up with wolf and countering any campiness.

Campy or Aggressive?: i'd say campy to begin with to get a feel for the ike and see his (darn) good range, after that aggressive seems like it would work cause outside of jab/nair ike doesnt have many moves fast enough to punish bairs or retreating fairs. on that matter, does fair outrange our bair? its range is huuuge

Tricksies: ikes will like jab cancelling you and once they see you DI'ing out of it they will stop and go for a grab. bair oos is a really nice option that ike has and he'll want to try and bait you into that thanks to its good range and impressive kill power

Wolf’s most powerful tool: blaster cause ike can't deal with camping, and shine cause a lot of his moves can be shielded (and therefore shined) on reaction, like i said though, not sure if our bair beats his fair or if our fair will either

Chaingrabs/Tilt Locks?: if you're at 0% he might be able to get two utilts off but you never see ike even use that move. look out for jab locks though, that'll rack dmg up fast and leads into good followups depending on how you DI

What to do when offstage: he'll probably try and fair gimp you, so like against most characters prepare to DI up in case you get smacked.

Stages- wolf works well with platforms so i'd suggest BF or smashville

Strike: - at the same time so does ike

Ban: - nothing i'd really ban i dont think, just look out for stage that his aether will go through if he decides to semi plank you (a lot of stages lol)

Pick: my fave is smashville

Kinetic · Sep 20, 2010

Ike's sword is HUGE. His nair has IIAS frames after he lands, he will try to ff nair you to a jab combo/lock.

Golden is underestimating his up-tilt as well. I've seen it used to punish bad jumps and spacing, and it kills really early (like all of Ike's moves). Ike is about as nasty on stages with platforms as wolf is, and Ike's recovery gets aided a lot by stages where he can aether through the ground to keep you from edgeguarding him. Neither character has a fantastic off-stage game, and Ike's typically won't jump off the stage after you.

Watch out for his dash attack as well, its surprising and one of his faster moves, a lot of ikes use it for mix ups, it can also kill at like 115-135% if you aren't ready to get hit by up. (It knocks you up if you get hit by the center of the sword, but away if you get hit by the end)

He can outrange our aerials with well spaced Fairs, his bair is faster, but it gets wrecked by our bair, and doesn't have a huge hitbox. If our fair and his fair get into a fight, we can out-speed his and hit him before he brings his sword down.

Shine is really our best tool here, it really messes with his recovery, really messes with his jab game, and really messes with his Up-Smash, which is one of his more common kill moves, as it covers such a huge distance. I agree blaster is good here as well, but on a stage with platforms a good ike will manage to not get camped by using Forward-B tricks (sliding off platforms to gain extra distance really fast) combined with good shielding, plus once he's in its hard to get him out as he's a really good boxer. Even if you camp him really well, a lot of times it doesn't take many hits for him to KO you.

Goldenadept · Sep 20, 2010

if you see an ike forward b to a platform back the hell up or shield cause they like to use that momentum to drop and bair all day which really hurts when it hits you.

Like Kinetic said, utilt is a good ike move that can kill you fairly early (but later than his other moves around 130-4- iirc) its hit box comes out slightly faster than his usmash but more often than not you'll see ikes opting for usmash thanks to its huge range and shield push instead of utilting.
i main ike and i never utilt :S nor do many others i see which i've been meaning to ask them about when i can pull myself away from the woffle boards. cause it seems like a decent move.

this'll probably never happen but his dtilt will spike you if you're careless with your recovery. some ikes like finishing a jab cancel with dilt as well depending on how you DI (i DI up and away usually)
dilt has really good knockback too if you get hit with the center of the sword

if ike is hanging off the edge or edge guarding you when you're recovering he's capable of either aethering or reverse aethering wolf using aethers super armor to drag wolf down a little bit while still catching the ledge, which means wolf has to up b -_-

Choice · Sep 20, 2010

Does anyone know any ike's that play against wolf players? I know san got to play me a little at MLG but i dont think i could really spit out what i think should be done against ike in great confidence from just those matches.

Kinetic · Sep 20, 2010

yeah his utilt is more for mix ups than anything, but I see Red-X and San both use it like twice a match, probably. Ike and Diddy Kong are probably the match ups im most experienced in as well, just because the guy I play against most often (One of my best friends) plays those two characters.

I most often see Ike using U-tilt when his opponent CAN'T shield, but he doesn't want to give him time to land. I see a lot of wolf's like to jump behind/towards their opponents after an aerial and thats when Ike can punish you with U-tilt if you get read.

Ike is just one of those match ups you have to keep cool in and take slow. If you make a big mistake Ike can punish you exceptionally hard, and a lot of people get nervous when they are playing against a character that everyone has been bashing since tier list v3. People are just now realizing Ike's potential in the metagame, so a lot of people are just really scared of his jab game right now and don't look at all the other **** he can do to you, especially his aerials.

Edit: There aren't really that many Ike's to choose from, Choice. Red-X, Ryokoshet, and San are the big names in the Ike community. San is pretty active on the forums, I'd get him to come in here and talk about it.

Kinetic · Sep 20, 2010

**** doubleposted

Nidtendofreak · Sep 20, 2010

You forgot Mr.Doom.

6-4 is probably correct. I don't have much more than a basic opinion of this MU: never gave it that much thought.

Seagull Joe · Sep 20, 2010

I played with san a lot at Apex. I think the matchup is 55-45. Every time I got killed was mostly through a spaced Bair, mindgamed Bair, or a charge smash where I had to land on the platform. Wolf can shine almost everything Ike does because most Ike's rely on charge smashes to punish landing (well san did). San won the set 1-2 in tourney. I beat him on Battlefield and lost on Delfino and Halberd. I think as long as Wolf doesn't go to moving stages he can out camp and out maneuver Ike.

Make sure to DI the jab shenanigans or you will get grabbed or just take an obscene unnecessary amount of damage.

san. · Sep 20, 2010

I don't think wolf has that much of an advantage over Ike. It's 55-45 to 50-50 IMO.

Ike's Uptilt is weak to airdodges, so it's best used when we know you're going to use an attack above us or we time it so that it only touches you at the end of the hitbox.

Wolf is very easy to manage longer jab strings because of the nature of his physics, and wolf would not like to use his double jump prematurely.

Wolf's blaster is not as useful as just careful spacing and mixups.

Ike can bthrow-->dash attack you from like 30-80% give or take 5-10% both sides. This is an instant offstage even at the middle of FD. Not sure what exactly all of Ike's options against wolf offstage because I don't play any wolfs enough, but being in this situation a lot is not good.

It'll be hard to get your setups into dsmash as long as Ike spaces his aerials at midrange and jabs up close. Don't always expect to be killing at the same % Ike will probably kill you. Luckily, as far as I know, Ike can't jab-->uptilt wolf, so he has to rely more on retreating bair and prioritize damage racking over kill setups.

@Seagull
Charged smashes probably aren't as useful on wolf compared to other characters, but I was just playing like how I play against any other character, so whenever I felt you would just land which was a big cue for other characters, slightly different for wolf with the shine. Would probably be better to frame trap with nair or continue to space jabs and bair.

Choice · Sep 20, 2010

ike can jab->uptilt some characters?

Ishiey · Sep 20, 2010

What jab cancels are most effective on a heavy/fastfalling character like Wolf (as in, what should we watch out for --> how should Wolf attempt to SDI the jabs to minimize damage)? I... really don't like getting jabbed ;___;

Anyways, yeah about the matchup. I'm glad San posted this before me so I don't feel like I'm being weird, but I'd put the MU at 55:45 Wolf tops. Ike's jab is ****, but as Wolf you should be trying to outspace it with moves like bair/fair to avoid getting owned. This would be great and all, except Ike's fair is ****ing HUGE. Basically, Ike's fair can really limit your ability to close space... but thankfully we rarely need to close space since we have a projectile that allows us to outcamp Ike. Fair (imo) shines when Ike uses it while retreating to punish overcommitted attack, but if an Ike main could clarify/better explain how fair works in this matchup that'd be great :3 Imo, the best way to play against Ike is to stay grounded and be cautious. Once you can break inside the range where his fair won't punish overcommitted aerials but his jab won't quite reach you is where Wolf can apply the most pressure, I'd say.

Seagull Joe · Sep 20, 2010

san3711 said:
I don't think wolf has that much of an advantage over Ike. It's 55-45 to 50-50 IMO.

Ike's Uptilt is weak to airdodges, so it's best used when we know you're going to use an attack above us or we time it so that it only touches you at the end of the hitbox.

Wolf is very easy to manage longer jab strings because of the nature of his physics, and wolf would not like to use his double jump prematurely.

Wolf's blaster is not as useful as just careful spacing and mixups.

Ike can bthrow-->dash attack you from like 30-80% give or take 5-10% both sides. This is an instant offstage even at the middle of FD. Not sure what exactly all of Ike's options against wolf offstage because I don't play any wolfs enough, but being in this situation a lot is not good.

It'll be hard to get your setups into dsmash as long as Ike spaces his aerials at midrange and jabs up close. Don't always expect to be killing at the same % Ike will probably kill you. Luckily, as far as I know, Ike can't jab-->uptilt wolf, so he has to rely more on retreating bair and prioritize damage racking over kill setups.

@Seagull
Charged smashes probably aren't as useful on wolf compared to other characters, but I was just playing like how I play against any other character, so whenever I felt you would just land which was a big cue for other characters, slightly different for wolf with the shine. Would probably be better to frame trap with nair or continue to space jabs and bair.

Ah, I understand.

san. · Sep 20, 2010

Ishieymoro said:
What jab cancels are most effective on a heavy/fastfalling character like Wolf (as in, what should we watch out for --> how should Wolf attempt to SDI the jabs to minimize damage)? I... really don't like getting jabbed ;___;

Anyways, yeah about the matchup. I'm glad San posted this before me so I don't feel like I'm being weird, but I'd put the MU at 55:45 Wolf tops. Ike's jab is ****, but as Wolf you should be trying to outspace it with moves like bair/fair to avoid getting owned. This would be great and all, except Ike's fair is ****ing HUGE. Basically, Ike's fair can really limit your ability to close space... but thankfully we rarely need to close space since we have a projectile that allows us to outcamp Ike. Fair (imo) shines when Ike uses it while retreating to punish overcommitted attack, but if an Ike main could clarify/better explain how fair works in this matchup that'd be great :3 Imo, the best way to play against Ike is to stay grounded and be cautious. Once you can break inside the range where his fair won't punish overcommitted aerials but his jab won't quite reach you is where Wolf can apply the most pressure, I'd say.

The reason why I said lasers didn't work too well, is because poweshield to jab is too strong to capitalize on very much. Camping with lasers will only get you cornered in the end. Wolf going up close against Ike is more a gamble for wolf outside of setting up for kills. It's best to be at mid-close range, just outside of jab range.

Ike's jab1->jab1 is a true combo. After that, if characters like wolf tries to DI out, it automatically does semi-combat walks that are DI dependent. Strings can last for quite a while. If you jump out, Ike will try to chase your landing, and if you try to use an aerial, it can be shielded and punished even more. If wolf pops out where jab canceling won't work, he can try to finish the full jab combo or shield, which covers everything you can try to do and chase when you try to escape.

I think wolf's bair is too good to be punished on powershield, correct? If so, at a horizontal distance, Ike needs to space retreating bair and the occasional nair (maybe fair). Wolf's Bair has annoying range where it's not too bad, but good enough to annoy us. We can hit you out of it but it takes timing. Retreating bair gives us a chance to hit you out while keeping the chances of us getting hit to a minimum.

IMO it's more even from what I experienced with wolf. If wolf killed earlier on us, it would be different.

Goldenadept · Sep 20, 2010

besides bair (if its fresh) i think the most reliable kill move we have is dsmash, which depending on your opponents DI can be very bad for ike thanks to its horizontal knock back, it'll send ike at a trajectory that isnt good for him.
alternatively if you DI's it well then he shouldn't have a problem at least getting to the ledge.

also san, do you know if you can combo/semi combo into dtilt from jab on heavier characters? i dunno if it was a vid of you but i saw an ike do that once and dtilt has a very impressive knockback on it.

-RedX- · Sep 21, 2010

Jab->Dtilt is only used offstage and mostly works on tall characters due to how long they float from jab1 before grabbing the ledge. I rarely get it to work on spacies.

Surprised I haven't seen anything mentioned on Wolf's Dthrow since it could seriously **** Ike at high percentages near the edge of stages. If the Dthrow is teched, Wolf has an opportunity to tech chase. If it's not teched, Ike is probably not gonna be able to recover because of linear recovery. :[

Also, I've been shine gimped during Aether by Kain. lol I dunno if it can be avoided but:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPNiy9XyDVE#t=2m51s

The ending is pretty homosexual too.

Ishiey · Sep 21, 2010

Well of course an intelligent Wolf won't be lasering you at a distance where you'd be able to PS > punish

I'm just saying, it's a bit of a hassle for every character without a reflector/projectile/absorber and definitely better than not having any projectile.

So basically, jab cancels are amazing and it basically ends up in a RPS game where Wolf has the short end of the stick? And yeah, dthrow can "kill" pretty well like that ;D but it's a bit shaky because of Ike's advantage in cqc, unless it's to punish a landing I don't think I'd be pushing for many grabs :x

For killing, I feel like Wolf's best shot at landing a kill move is a fresh back air (I'd choose fair as my #2, getting in close enough to land a dsmash vs Ike is... not something I can pull off lol). This is a slight problem because it means that Wolf will really benefit from keeping his best damage-racker fresh. Idk about it being even but it's definitely not far from there. Hopefully Mr. Doom posts in here soon, I'm interested in seeing what he has to say :3

Goldenadept · Sep 21, 2010

dangit i knew i was forgetting something, its the ever useful Dthrow :D.
so yeah, what X said.

i remember watching that vid a while back, the ending is deliciously homo, perfect for a fruity space pirate wolf

Kinetic · Sep 21, 2010

Ishieymoro said:
Well of course an intelligent Wolf won't be lasering you at a distance where you'd be able to PS > punish I'm just saying, it's a bit of a hassle for every character without a reflector/projectile/absorber and definitely better than not having any projectile.

So basically, jab cancels are amazing and it basically ends up in a RPS game where Wolf has the short end of the stick? And yeah, dthrow can "kill" pretty well like that ;D but it's a bit shaky because of Ike's advantage in cqc, unless it's to punish a landing I don't think I'd be pushing for many grabs :x

For killing, I feel like Wolf's best shot at landing a kill move is a fresh back air (I'd choose fair as my #2, getting in close enough to land a dsmash vs Ike is... not something I can pull off lol). This is a slight problem because it means that Wolf will really benefit from keeping his best damage-racker fresh. Idk about it being even but it's definitely not far from there. Hopefully Mr. Doom posts in here soon, I'm interested in seeing what he has to say :3

I forgot Mr. Doom, though I don't know how. Regardless, I'm pretty sure San said that Wolf had the advantage in the match up 55-45 at best, but he believed it to be more neutral, which is something I can get behind. Arbitrary ratios really mean nothing in the end anyway. I'm just glad we got San in here to discuss it with us.

The big point that San seemed to make was that both character's kind of neutralize the other's game. Ike's jab game really reduces our ability to SPAM DOWN SMASH, which is typically our favored kill move, and our specific weight and powerful aerials limit his ability to set up kills, forcing him to worry more about damage racking, which can be problematic.

IMO its a pretty neutral match up in the end.

_Kain_ · Sep 21, 2010

Yeah. Shine is very good for hassling ike on the edge if they aether up to the stage. If they try to go low jus grab the ledge from them.

Hist · Sep 21, 2010

Keep ike at the edge it's difficult personally as an ike to get leverage back while my friend uses shine and laser to keep me pinned. on a note of warning though if the ike is keeping in the middle of the stage either get him to the edge or mix up your approach because if i shield i have the opportunity for Jabs and tilts..
Don't miss your forward smash because then you'll eat mine.
Don't try down airing because up tilts are an easy counter
back air would be a good choice but dont make it to noticeable because ikes back air comes out faster
Id say match up 55-45 only because of the abuse we get for little mistakes and shield grabs along with wolf ground dominance against Ike. not to much of a difference but it's slightly noticeable.

Mr. Doom · Sep 21, 2010

Not so good Intro

Wolf has some good damage-racking skills that even my SDI can't really get through. I'm pretty sure someone has already said it, but b-air's your best bet if you land the hit on Ike. Never try to force a kill against Ike, because that will get you jabbed. (I swear, matches almost go to time when I play Holms' Wolf). Ike's full-jab combo deals 16% damage fresh. As San said, Jab1-jab1 is a true combo, so Jab1-Jab1-2-3 will deal about 20% damage.

Dthrow

You guys barely scraped on Dthrow? Dthrow works wonders if you manage to throw Ike off the edge when he's at high damage. I haven't tested the numbers yet, but there's a certain percentage where Ike won't recover. >_> That move is a rather gimmicky move, but it still works.

Fsmash

About FSmash, I'd say to use sparingly. You have people who can SDI out of it. Even though it has a quick start-up, its cool-down is laggard enough for Ike to punish. I do think that the first hit of Wolf's Fsmash combos into a dsmash if the opponent DIs upward. I see Holms do that a lot, and I see that most people actually get hit by it. It might be something you should try out.

Dair

As for spiking, don't go for it. People can SDI back onto the stage. If you don't believe me, check this video out. (Is Wolf too high for your tastes? Check this one instead.) I know it's part of my sucky SDI compilation, but if someone else can emulate it, spiking wouldn't really work. I haven't really been shined out of aether, so I don't know how to comment on that.

Wrapping things up

Like I said earlier, my matches vs Holms' Wolf almost go to time, so I'm usually expecting for a good Wolf to time me out. In my opinion, expect at least 2 minutes a stock, unless something awesome/awful happens.

>_> I don't know what else to talk about. Since I play Holms' Wolf almost all the time, everything has literally become a conditioning game. My philosophy towards close combat: you strike first, you lose.

castorpollux · Sep 21, 2010

Mr. Doom said:
Not so good Intro

Wolf has some good damage-racking skills that even my SDI can't really get through. I'm pretty sure someone has already said it, but b-air's your best bet if you land the hit on Ike. Never try to force a kill against Ike, because that will get you jabbed. (I swear, matches almost go to time when I play Holms' Wolf). Ike's full-jab combo deals 16% damage fresh. As San said, Jab1-jab1 is a true combo, so Jab1-Jab1-2-3 will deal about 20% damage.

Dthrow

You guys barely scraped on Dthrow? Dthrow works wonders if you manage to throw Ike off the edge when he's at high damage. I haven't tested the numbers yet, but there's a certain percentage where Ike won't recover. >_> That move is a rather gimmicky move, but it still works.

Fsmash

About FSmash, I'd say to use sparingly. You have people who can SDI out of it. Even though it has a quick start-up, its cool-down is laggard enough for Ike to punish. I do think that the first hit of Wolf's Fsmash combos into a dsmash if the opponent DIs upward. I see Holms do that a lot, and I see that most people actually get hit by it. It might be something you should try out.

Dair

As for spiking, don't go for it. People can SDI back onto the stage. If you don't believe me, check this video out. (Is Wolf too high for your tastes? Check this one instead.) I know it's part of my sucky SDI compilation, but if someone else can emulate it, spiking wouldn't really work. I haven't really been shined out of aether, so I don't know how to comment on that.

Wrapping things up

Like I said earlier, my matches vs Holms' Wolf almost go to time, so I'm usually expecting for a good Wolf to time me out. In my opinion, expect at least 2 minutes a stock, unless something awesome/awful happens.

>_> I don't know what else to talk about. Since I play Holms' Wolf almost all the time, everything has literally become a conditioning game. My philosophy towards close combat: you strike first, you lose.

wolfs have been doing that SDI stuff for the longest time....

we call it Chinese DI

~ Gheb ~ · Sep 21, 2010

Ike can only avoid the shine gimp if he comes from straight below. If he has to move forward to reach the ledge then shine is a guaranteed gimp.

castorpollux · Sep 21, 2010

Gheb_01 said:
Ike can only avoid the shine gimp if he comes from straight below. If he has to move forward to reach the ledge then shine is a guaranteed gimp.

u never know. maybe mr. doom will have a video of him chinese DI'ing shine spikes lawl

Kinetic · Sep 21, 2010

Mr. Doom said:
Not so good Intro

Wolf has some good damage-racking skills that even my SDI can't really get through. I'm pretty sure someone has already said it, but b-air's your best bet if you land the hit on Ike. Never try to force a kill against Ike, because that will get you jabbed. (I swear, matches almost go to time when I play Holms' Wolf). Ike's full-jab combo deals 16% damage fresh. As San said, Jab1-jab1 is a true combo, so Jab1-Jab1-2-3 will deal about 20% damage.

Dthrow

You guys barely scraped on Dthrow? Dthrow works wonders if you manage to throw Ike off the edge when he's at high damage. I haven't tested the numbers yet, but there's a certain percentage where Ike won't recover. >_> That move is a rather gimmicky move, but it still works.

Fsmash

About FSmash, I'd say to use sparingly. You have people who can SDI out of it. Even though it has a quick start-up, its cool-down is laggard enough for Ike to punish. I do think that the first hit of Wolf's Fsmash combos into a dsmash if the opponent DIs upward. I see Holms do that a lot, and I see that most people actually get hit by it. It might be something you should try out.

Dair

As for spiking, don't go for it. People can SDI back onto the stage. If you don't believe me, check this video out. (Is Wolf too high for your tastes? Check this one instead.) I know it's part of my sucky SDI compilation, but if someone else can emulate it, spiking wouldn't really work. I haven't really been shined out of aether, so I don't know how to comment on that.

Wrapping things up

Like I said earlier, my matches vs Holms' Wolf almost go to time, so I'm usually expecting for a good Wolf to time me out. In my opinion, expect at least 2 minutes a stock, unless something awesome/awful happens.

>_> I don't know what else to talk about. Since I play Holms' Wolf almost all the time, everything has literally become a conditioning game. My philosophy towards close combat: you strike first, you lose.

Good ****, Mr. Doom. You know, this is completely off topic, but can you tell the story for why your SDI is so good?

Also, I am glad to see we are getting the best ike's in here to discuss the match up. =P

I can vouch for the d-throw thing close to the edge. At higher percentages it sends Ike at such a bad angle for his recovery, however, it is possible to tech the d-throw. Going to time sounds epically boring, but reasonable given the circumstances of the match up.

san. · Sep 21, 2010

I only talked about powershielding lasers so wolf can't really punish our shielding that easily (well not like pikachu or falco, lol), not us punishing. Idk about the dthrow, I don't know many times you'll be grabbed in such a position unless you aether onstage or something. Could definitely be useful though. I found it easy to tech wolf's dthrow ~90% of the time against seagull even though I never practiced the timing before (did it too much and then he started to expect it every time =/) Luckily, Ike has a decent tech roll(I think, if it's the same as the getup roll), but not enough to escape punishment some of the time. At mid %s not teching is probably better lol.

Idk about the shine gimp. Sounds like it doesn't work to me. It seems that for all situations that could work, merely grabbing the edge works just as well, which is only when Ike is very far away (bad DI or something scrubby), used double jump, and can barely make it back to the stage. If you can shine aether out of shield, that's an entirely different story, where we would have to look to see if reverse aether works against it or not. But I'm not sure how much wolf wants to jump offstage to attempt a gimp if aether can cause annoyances.

I think wolf will get more kills from aerials than dsmash too, because bair is good enough to penetrate Ike with lesser margin to mess up.

The reason why I lean towards more even is because of the kill ratio, and wolf's earlier kill risks him getting jabbed, or jab->grab->bthrow->dash attack, which is 15-20% damage you don't want, so your aerials are safer but takes a little longer from my opinion. If Ike manages to powershield your bair, watch out, because he can jab afterwards. Wolf's bair is probably good enough where you won't expect the Ike to powershield very often, but they will try to go for it a lot if you don't mix up your spacing game.

Ishiey · Sep 21, 2010

@Mr. Doom: Yeah... that SDI was too good lol. And speaking of dthrow, that might make stages with sloped ledges a bit better for Wolf since that leaves less room for the opponent to tech a dthrow at higher %s, allowing for dthrow kills slightly further away from the ledge :o

I believe you about going to time :x Trying to force things against a character like Ike is just asking to get ***** hard. How does Ike get most of his kills in this matchup, is there a particular move that works best or is it more about you/your opponent's playstyle? And also, how are Ike's ledge options?

@San: Oh, I see... nvm then

And about dthrow, yeah teching is pretty great but be sure to mix it up, Wolf has guaranteed combos out of a tech on Ike no matter where you go on reaction (and often times even if you miss the tech on stage :o)

Shine gimp, idk what to think of that either, but you can't deny video evidence. Looks like it can hit Ike regardless of spacing, but I'd have to be pretty confident about that before taking the risk of getting aether'd :x Wolf can in-shield DI and nair/shine/etc (iirc a variety of characters can), what would make it harder for Wolf to shine a reverse aether?

I agree with what you're saying about the kill risks, I found that to be an issue against you in pools where I just felt uncomfortable trying to kill you with anything besides back air :x And yeah, people will PS bairs if they're good enough and the Wolf bairs predictably, but same goes for more or less every character so that's a moot point

but agreed, mixing it up is pretty important vs Ike because he's one of the few characters that actually has a move fast enough to punish (I'm not sure about the range, but since Wolf's foot is still extended a bit during cooldown it's certainly possible), and it punishes hard :x

Mr. Doom · Sep 21, 2010

The side story to my SDI includes this video. But it all began during SSB64 where a CPU's SDI saved him from Luigi's UpB.

I'm not too sure about Wolf's shine gimp either. Is an offstage shine -> double-jump shine a true combo? If Ike is high enough, he could just air-dodge through the second shine and aether back on stage. >_> Sounds good on paper, but that's something I need to emulate.

Edit: Ike's kills include u-air if below Wolf, bair and usmash for baits, fair offstage, Jab1->Jab1->utilt. If I am correct, Wolf has horrible momentum canceling if sent vertically off the top, so most of Ike's kills will be ceiling kills.

castorpollux · Sep 21, 2010

Just letting you guys know, kain does his shine-jumpshine gimps a little slower than it can be done , and despite that, it still looks very effective and hard to avoid dying from

Hist · Sep 21, 2010

Delete this.

Choice · Sep 21, 2010

dont side b onto the stage at ike when he's standing in a neutral position. he's baiting it for usmash. iunno, i remember san did that once to me. also i doubt jab->utilt works doom. shine is too broke.

Mr. Doom · Sep 22, 2010

choice_ said:
doom

Ishiey · Sep 22, 2010

^ lol. I'll let that one slide

but try to throw in a little bit of matchup-relevant material in each post xD

As difficult as it is for Wolf to hit Ike with a kill move, I feel like it's the same way for Ike (aside from how early Ike can kill with good reads, but Wolf is capable of avoiding many of those situations better than the average character (ex. charged usmash), making it a more player-based variable). Does anyone else agree, or am I missing something X_x since iirc, landing a kill move on Wolf out of jab requires some messed up DI and a negligence of the shield button.

castorpollux · Sep 22, 2010

mr. Doom said:

doooooooooooooooom

**edit**

sorry ish about this post, you ninja'd me (OMG I KNOW)

Choice · Sep 22, 2010

Ishieymoro said:
^ lol. I'll let that one slide but try to throw in a little bit of matchup-relevant material in each post xD

As difficult as it is for Wolf to hit Ike with a kill move, I feel like it's the same way for Ike (aside from how early Ike can kill with good reads, but Wolf is capable of avoiding many of those situations better than the average character (ex. charged usmash), making it a more player-based variable). Does anyone else agree, or am I missing something X_x since iirc, landing a kill move on Wolf out of jab requires some messed up DI and a negligence of the shield button.

and a lack of down b. i dont think ike has any quick oos options to punish it on shield. ike + quick dont mix.

Goldenadept · Sep 22, 2010

what about jab oos? thats about the only move i can think of that has quick start up

also for referance, ike can be holding the ledge, drop and aether 5 times right? then he's gotta get up cause the next aether wont grab the ledge.

-RedX- · Sep 22, 2010

Ike SH Bair OoS. Only if Ike's back is turned of course. A buffered turn around jab is possible for a quick OoS as well.
Yea, he can only Aether 5 times on the ledge. Has to be grounded again to refresh that rule.

Seagull Joe · Sep 22, 2010

You can't jab Oos Adept. That'd be broken and stupid if characters could.

-RedX- · Sep 22, 2010

Shield drop->Jab.
That's like 10 frames I think. I'm not very good with frame data. lol

Ike Matchup Export~

Mother Wolf

Smash Lord

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

Smash Champion

Smash Apprentice

Smash Apprentice

Smash Hero

Smash Legend

1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero

Smash Champion

Mother Wolf

Smash Legend

1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Mother Wolf

Smash Lord

Smash Apprentice

Smash Champion

Smash Cadet

Smash Hero

Smash Champion

Life is just a party

Smash Champion

Smash Apprentice

1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero

Mother Wolf

Smash Hero

Smash Champion

Smash Cadet

Smash Champion

Smash Hero

Mother Wolf

Smash Champion

Smash Champion

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Smash Legend

Smash Lord

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