• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Quick Attack Cancel > Nair is a true combo

Pikabunz

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
6,084
Location
San Antonio, TX
NNID
Pikabunz
3DS FC
1134-8730-8374
Quick Attack Cancel > Nair Combo

First of all, thanks to ESAM for bringing this up to me. QAC>Nair is considered a true combo. Basically, just get them to a high enough percent, make sure QA isn't too stale, use QA1 only, and it should combo! Why is this important? It gives us a fast, unpredictable, long ranged kill move at high percents!

Some factors on making this combo work:
1. Weight and percent of opponent
2. Freshness of QA
3. Which QA you hit with - QA1 or QA2
4. What frame of QA you hit with

You need QA to do at least 22 frames of hitstun for Nair to be guaranteed. Obviously the amount of hitstun you do depends on the percent and weight of the opponent. The higher the percent, the more hitstun QA will do. The heavier the opponent the more percent is required to do more hitstun.

Freshness of QA is also important. Just try to keep QA as fresh as possible. Just staling it once increases the percent requirement by about 10% to get that 22 frame hitstun.

Which QA you hit with matters too. QA1 is stronger and has more hitstun than QA2. Looking at the data below, you can see that with QA1 you only need to get MK to 105% to get 22 frames of hitstun. With QA2, you need to get to at least 153% just to get 22 frames of hitstun and this is with a fresh QA. With a stale QA and heavier opponent, the percent is going to be much higher, so it's important that you use QA1C for the combo.

One more factor is what frame of QA you hit with. This isn't really too important, but I'll explain it anyways. QA's hitbox last for 4 frames and how much hitstun you need for the combo to work depends on what frame of QA you hit with. If you hit with the 4th frame of QA, you only need 22 frames of hitstun and hitting with the 3rd frame of QA you need 23 frames of hitstun. The first 2 frames of QA's hitbox don't matter cause you won't be in range afterwards anyways for Nair to connect. As long as you space your QA far enough you will always hit with the 4th frame and only need the 22 frame hitstun, so don't worry too much about this if you don't understand it.

Percent+Hitstun on Metaknight with Fresh QA1
105% - 119%: 22 frames of hitstun
120% - 135%: 23 frames of hitstun
136% - 150%: 24 frames of hitstun

Percent+Hitstun on Metaknight with Fresh QA2
133% - 152%: 21 frames of hitstun
153% - ???: 22 frames of hitstun

I'll update this later with percents for other characters. I'll get a vid too if it's needed. Oh, and this work with Uair too. :)

[collapse="Fresh QA1 > Nair Starting Percents"]

:bowser2: -
:dk2: -
:snake: - 125%
:dedede: - 125%
:charizard: -
:ganondorf: -
:samus2: -
:yoshi2: -
:wario: - 122%
:rob: -
:ike: - 120%
:falcon: -
:link2: -
:wolf: -
:lucario: - 117%
:ivysaur: -
:mario2: -
:luigi2: - 116%
:sonic: - 114%
:ness2: -
:pit: -
:lucas: -
:diddy: - 113%
:toonlink: - 113%
:popo: - 113%
:peach: - 111%
:marth: - 110%
:shiek: -
:zelda: -
:falco: -
:olimar: - 107%
:zerosuitsamus: -
:fox: -
:metaknight: - 105%
:pikachu2: - 105%
:kirby2: -
:squirtle: -
:gw: - 102%
:jigglypuff: -
[/collapse]

[collapse="Fresh QA2 > Nair Starting Percents"]
:bowser2: -
:dk2: -
:snake: -
:dedede: -
:charizard: -
:ganondorf: -
:samus2: -
:yoshi2: -
:wario: -
:rob: -
:ike: -
:falcon: -
:link2: -
:wolf: -
:lucario: -
:ivysaur: -
:mario2: -
:luigi2: -
:sonic: -
:ness2: -
:pit: -
:lucas: -
:diddy: -
:toonlink: -
:popo: -
:peach: -
:marth: -
:shiek: -
:zelda: -
:falco: -
:olimar: -
:zerosuitsamus: -
:fox: -
:metaknight: -
:pikachu2: -
:kirby2: -
:squirtle: -
:gw: -
:jigglypuff: -
[/collapse]
 

The Truth!

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
991
A reliable kill set up for pikachu? What a beast.

btw I know its not nearly a useful but you should find out when QAC to dair is a true combo. That comes out in like 1 frame.

Alsooo dj uair footstool still works at 105% to a little less than 120% ;) Of course they can DI if they see it coming.
 

Pikabunz

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
6,084
Location
San Antonio, TX
NNID
Pikabunz
3DS FC
1134-8730-8374
QAC to dair is 2 frames, so you only need 21 frames of hitstun for it to combo.
 

Nicholas1024

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,075
Sweet. Although, could we reduce the needed percent by accounting for the startup-time of the other char's moves? I mean, if it takes 3 frames (no idea what the real number is, just an example) before MK's fastest move comes out, we could get away with only 20 frames of hitstun, right?
 

outlawpika

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Messages
225
Location
Atlanta, GA
QAC is useful. Quite useful.
I always try to integrate QAC techniques but im not always effective with it...
so, in turn, most better players around me shake their head at me and tell me "dont QAC, its a terrible idea."

i disagree... but its definitely hurting my pride...
 

Wiscus

(◕ω◕✿)
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
4,414
3DS FC
3840-5663-0679
This is great to know! ♥
Now if only I wasnt so predictable with qac/everything....
wohoo for combos!
 

Leaf.

Gets up to speed!
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
7,764
Location
Dang I went to Dallas :(
Just out of curiosity, does hitting with QA2 exhaust QA1?
And what percents does a fresh Nair kill MK at?

I'm gonna add this to the directory right now, I love this.
 

Pikabunz

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
6,084
Location
San Antonio, TX
NNID
Pikabunz
3DS FC
1134-8730-8374
im i correct in assuming its like

P---Xo

p=pikachu
x=oppenet
o-nair
Yep!
Just out of curiosity, does hitting with QA2 exhaust QA1?
And what percents does a fresh Nair kill MK at?

I'm gonna add this to the directory right now, I love this.
Yes, QA1 and QA2 both count as one move. Staling one will stale the other.

I think around 130%-140% in the middle of FD.
 

KayLo!

Smarter than your average wabbit.
Joined
Dec 9, 2008
Messages
15,480
Location
Philadelphia, PA
3DS FC
3497-1590-7447
I think around 130%-140% in the middle of FD.
With or without DI, and I'm assuming we're talking average-weight characters?

Because I've definitely had people (TL stands out in my mind as one) survive fresh nairs at higher percentages than that.
 

Pikabunz

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
6,084
Location
San Antonio, TX
NNID
Pikabunz
3DS FC
1134-8730-8374
With DI and I'm talking about MK.

Got some new minor info. For Q2, you only need 21 frames of hitstun for nair to connect and same with Q1 after it's been staled at least twice.
 

[FBC] ESAM

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
12,197
Location
Pika?
So...at some point is it gonna be with diminished as well? It is amazing what you have done up to this point, I am just wondering since QA will rarely be fresh if we use it to get away/recovery we are most likely going to hit somebody ONCE with it per 9 moves.
 

KayLo!

Smarter than your average wabbit.
Joined
Dec 9, 2008
Messages
15,480
Location
Philadelphia, PA
3DS FC
3497-1590-7447
I mean, it obviously always existed lol. But I don't think most people were aware that it's guaranteed.
 

King~

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Messages
2,454
Location
Chi-town, come at me
i dont think this is the right thread, but ill ask since its similar

does fair have enough hitstun to true combo into nair? cause ive done this in tourney before but im not sure
 

PZ

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
1,987
Location
Hinesville, Georgia
i dont think this is the right thread, but ill ask since its similar

does fair have enough hitstun to true combo into nair? cause ive done this in tourney before but im not sure
No but it depends on who you facing stun change on different characters for certain moves at different percents but even then fair has a set knockback...when only the first hits are used. I would like to say frametrap. Great optio out of fair.
 

The Truth!

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
991
No but it depends on who you facing stun change on different characters for certain moves at different percents but even then fair has a set knockback...when only the first hits are used. I would like to say frametrap. Great optio out of fair.
What? Did you actually frame test that? I wouldnt be surprised if it wasnt a true combo, but dont say its not unless you know for sure or say you tested it.
 

PZ

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
1,987
Location
Hinesville, Georgia
What? Did you actually frame test that? I wouldnt be surprised if it wasnt a true combo, but dont say its not unless you know for sure or say you tested it.
Ive done it many times and tested it. It really depends on where they at after the fair's consecutive hits. Just now tested on my friend's mario. He can uair out of it. With DI and SDI he can use nair.
 

Vex Kasrani

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
4,824
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Ive done it many times and tested it. It really depends on where they at after the fair's consecutive hits. Just now tested on my friend's mario. He can uair out of it. With DI and SDI he can use nair.
PZ....... KNOWS, HE ALWAYS KNOWS!

I really doubt you tested it though.
 

KayLo!

Smarter than your average wabbit.
Joined
Dec 9, 2008
Messages
15,480
Location
Philadelphia, PA
3DS FC
3497-1590-7447
Yea i didnt not with frame data but if you shw me where to download the frame pack for seeing the frames than HYES!
There's no frame pack.... it's a code that freezes the game and lets you step through it frame-by-frame. You don't "see" the frames, you input actions and count the frames yourself.

Here are the codes you need:


Code:
Debug Pause:-(GCC)
80000000 805B8A08
0402E5AC 8819000B
4A000000 804DE470
38000000 EFFF1000
86410000 00000001
E2000001 00000000
4A000000 805B8A08
3A000002 00FF0000
12000002 00000001
E2000001 00000000
4A000000 804DE470
38000000 FFEF0010
4A000000 805B8A08
3A000002 FF000000
12000002 00000100
E2000002 00000000

Button Modifier:
041E6CD8 4BE1C128
041E6D1C 4BE1C114
06002E00 00000068
9421FF80 BC410008
7CE4402E 7CE738F8
7CE73039 3864FFC0
7CE3412E 7CC4412E
B8410008 38210080
60000000 481E3EB0
9421FF80 BC410008
7C03202E 3DC01000
7DCE70F8 7C007039
740E0408 3DE00408
7C0E7800 40820008
64001000 B8410008
38210080 481E3EBC
The start button freezes the game; Z advances each frame. Up + X is the new start for a normal in-game pause.

Good luck. ;P
 

Sunnysunny

Blue-nubis
Premium
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
3,085
Location
Peyton, Colorado
QAC USELESS?!
Only reason I got interested in pikachu was for his QAC manuevers.

How cute he is and how **** his chaingrabs are help too. Wear you at fox mains.
 
Top Bottom