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Meta Knight's New Match Up Thread: Ice Climbers
- Thread starter lilseph
- Start date
Enzo
Smash Lord
Get more % on him.
Plank if no ledge grab limit, if not just run/dair camp forever.
Squeeze any homosexual you have in you for this mu.
GG.
Plank if no ledge grab limit, if not just run/dair camp forever.
Squeeze any homosexual you have in you for this mu.
GG.
Jem.
Smash Master
you can approach this matchup two ways
a smart aggressive ground game (there is always the fear of tripping into a grab though and the possibility)
or you dair camp like you're playing vs falco (except IC's uair is better vs MK's dair, so he can easily get the percent lead on you)
I try to combine the both, randomely dair camp then catch him off guard with smart aggression, then camp with a lead
a smart aggressive ground game (there is always the fear of tripping into a grab though and the possibility)
or you dair camp like you're playing vs falco (except IC's uair is better vs MK's dair, so he can easily get the percent lead on you)
I try to combine the both, randomely dair camp then catch him off guard with smart aggression, then camp with a lead
a male platypus
Smash Apprentice
I usually tend to do the same thing, and find that it works pretty well.
Something I've found to be quite useful:
If you get the IC's to the edge (where they can't pivot grab your tornado) you can use a tornado on them (1 press of B, so it's the fastest-ending tornado) which they will obviously shield and try to punish with a grab. If you back up almost as soon as they shield they will start to chase for the grab, but will soon realize you're already out of torando... and voila: You get to punish them.
^I know that is probably hard as hell to read, I'm exhausted. I just hope I got the idea across
Orion*
Smash Researcher
%s do not matter in this matchup
keep that in mind
because both characters "0-death" each other
just wait until ics make a mistake and gimp them pretty much
kinda tipsy just got back from the cl/pub but otherwise imo
i agree w/ jem and um
pretty much when i approach this just dont get uaired and dont get grabbed and then ics cant really like do much. they have no other gay moves in this mu really
nado is pretty homo but dont let them grab it. if they are already holding shield nado ABOVE grab range and just poke them, its mad homo.
learn to **** upB if they drop down
nado>sideB lrn 2 space
also um
....
if you see you make a mistake buffer breaking out of the grab, it will save you so much. yeah brains dead now
keep that in mind
because both characters "0-death" each other
just wait until ics make a mistake and gimp them pretty much
kinda tipsy just got back from the cl/pub but otherwise imo
i agree w/ jem and um
pretty much when i approach this just dont get uaired and dont get grabbed and then ics cant really like do much. they have no other gay moves in this mu really
nado is pretty homo but dont let them grab it. if they are already holding shield nado ABOVE grab range and just poke them, its mad homo.
learn to **** upB if they drop down
nado>sideB lrn 2 space
also um
....
if you see you make a mistake buffer breaking out of the grab, it will save you so much. yeah brains dead now
Player-4
See you in 25 years
Here's my strat I have yet to try but intend to try if I get ICs in a meaningful tourney (don't wanna waste it at fests/10 man tourneys lol).
Kill Nana, get percent lead on Popo, then run the ****ing time. Popo has no hope of catching you, the best thing they can do is SD to get both climbers back and get back to camping for grabs, seriously.
If that's not your thing, Dair camp to Nado works really well for me along with a smart aggressive ground game in short bursts.
Pretty much what Orion and Jem already said.
Don't grab, that should go without saying, but I'll say it anyways.
Don't always go for Nana when you separate them, it's good to sometimes go for Popo, and don't ignore Popo when going for Nana, they'll come up on you and try to beat your off of her if they can.
ICs are the most homosexual character in this game, and you'll need to do homo things to win.
Kill Nana, get percent lead on Popo, then run the ****ing time. Popo has no hope of catching you, the best thing they can do is SD to get both climbers back and get back to camping for grabs, seriously.
If that's not your thing, Dair camp to Nado works really well for me along with a smart aggressive ground game in short bursts.
Pretty much what Orion and Jem already said.
Don't grab, that should go without saying, but I'll say it anyways.
Don't always go for Nana when you separate them, it's good to sometimes go for Popo, and don't ignore Popo when going for Nana, they'll come up on you and try to beat your off of her if they can.
ICs are the most homosexual character in this game, and you'll need to do homo things to win.
demonictoonlink
Smash Master
Unless you're prepared to plank, I wouldn't recommend it. SoPo's Uair will eventually hit and kill you.
Player-4
See you in 25 years
Move stale and just don't be at kill percent, and Uair is the only thing he can do if you try to time him out with air camping, it seriously isn't that hard >_>
Orion*
Smash Researcher
id rather just kill popo gotta be honest
Player-4
See you in 25 years
Suit yourself, I just can't deal with 1 grab = 1 stock, too much of a gamble for me.
Orion*
Smash Researcher
its not a gamble if you space right ._.
Player-4
See you in 25 years
That's the problem though if you space right.
It's hard to be 100% on top of your game, and near impossible to not get grabbed no matter how hard you work
Player-4
See you in 25 years
You guys post in theory too much -____-
Orion*
Smash Researcher
its pretty realistic to avoid being grabbed by the character with the best tools for it in the entire game
if falco mains have adapted to the point where this **** is playable and they dont even have a sword we have ZERO johns LMAO
if falco mains have adapted to the point where this **** is playable and they dont even have a sword we have ZERO johns LMAO
Player-4
See you in 25 years
I don't believe Falco vs ICs is playable >_>
Kaffei
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 7,048
Well ****** u guys post too much "it's hard"
Also I have a question: Does our Uair beat IC's dair?
Player-4
See you in 25 years
Says the guy who's always asking for MU advice on the entire castWell ****** u guys post too much "it's hard"
Doesn't our perfectly falling Uair beat everything in the game from above?
Jem.
Smash Master
Larry 3 stocked Cheese in a MM
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
LOL!
Also, even if uair doesn't beat everything, I have not found a single move that beats utilt.
Yeah, in this matchup... Don't approach. Stall, even if you have the % disadvantage. Wait for them to get angry and make a mistake. If they don't, leave the actual fighting until about 1 minute left, if not later. If they do, congrats-you have a stock lead. Go back to spammy camping. If you approach, you're either losing and there's almost no time left on the clock, or you're not likely to win.
Stage striking... Try for SV? As for counterpicking, RC and Brinstar should be pretty obvious calls. Is Norfair any good?
Orion*
Smash Researcher
easy to say, i seriously doubt any of you will though
I'm still having some problems with the mk matchup but heres my input
camp and stay in the air/ platforms until you get an opening then go super aggro to gimp us.
timing out sopo works great if your a stock ahead.
Dair camping to tornado works good just space it well or we can up air. ( if you are on a stage with a moving platform like sv or something then watch out for platform cancel to grab it comes out really fast)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fciZczRFLEk
pretty much all basic stuff just play smart and don't get grabbed.
camp and stay in the air/ platforms until you get an opening then go super aggro to gimp us.
timing out sopo works great if your a stock ahead.
Dair camping to tornado works good just space it well or we can up air. ( if you are on a stage with a moving platform like sv or something then watch out for platform cancel to grab it comes out really fast)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fciZczRFLEk
pretty much all basic stuff just play smart and don't get grabbed.
Rob_Gambino
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2005
- Messages
- 1,206
Don't say never grab, grabbing is a great way to separate the climbers. Definitely use it as a mixup, but by no means make it your primary strategy for every stock. It's ok to play a little aggressive at super low percents so you can break out, but it actually sucks if nana is separated and popo lands that grab when he has lots of stage in front of him.
I have more trouble with nair than any other move mk has. That's the only real input I have, I've beaten every mk I've played in the last few months so *shrugs*.
Player-4
See you in 25 years
Which MKs are you playing now Hylian?
Orion*
Smash Researcher
Atomsk/Domo/Shugo/various other good ones. I actually got a lot better since I left texas because I'm able to play every week and attend tournaments often. That also shows in my recent placings lol.
In an approaching manner. It's soooo much harder to punish than dair/fair. Seriously, it sounds dumb but just try running at IC's and using sh nair. This is assuming they aren't blizz walling(which isn't too hard to punish). Try it out in some friendlies, you'll see what I mean pretty fast.
you need to bring as much gay as possible into this matchup, no regrets
take advantage of killing nana, if you have the lead or are at least on the same stock with them and you kill nana make sure you have the percent lead and camp just as hard as you were before, waste as much time as possible on the "easy" stock where its just popo and if you're smart you should be able to stall out for awhile before killing him
plank/stall at another point like this and just keep being gay
take advantage of killing nana, if you have the lead or are at least on the same stock with them and you kill nana make sure you have the percent lead and camp just as hard as you were before, waste as much time as possible on the "easy" stock where its just popo and if you're smart you should be able to stall out for awhile before killing him
plank/stall at another point like this and just keep being gay
Orion*
Smash Researcher
why are you unable to ps, grab this >_>
ill try it but it just seems like its asking to get grabbed, less than fair though lmao.
ill try it but it just seems like its asking to get grabbed, less than fair though lmao.
Because even if I PS I still cant always grab. Also unless I'm running forward nana always gets hit by the nair even if I PS. This sucks when she is at high %.
Try mixing up your Nair timings. I don't think that there is any one set time when you want to hit joined ICs with Nair. It's very good at seperating ICs. I personally prefer the weak hit of Nair because IC players usually whiff an attack right in front of me when I hit them and I can usually buffer a Dair if they try and hit me OoS. Spaced Usmash, Nair, rising Side-B, and Down-B beat it with horizontal spacing. It shuts down IC's vertical spacing, however. Most IC players (in my experience) are excessively reliant on their vertical spacing and their less-delicate horizontal spacing (e.g. Down-B) -- especially mobile horizontal spacing.
Player-4
See you in 25 years
You know this ***got *** broken character can grab you if you footstool one of them?
Gawd >_>
Gawd >_>
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
This got necro'd... Might as well mention something. Against every ICs that I have ever played, this strategy has worked somewhere between somewhat (iStudy) and extremely (LuLLo) well. Best on Battlefield or a similar stage. Dair camp, and the moment they leave the ground, if you are anywhere near on the same level vertically as them or below them, tornado. This works surprisingly well.
TSM ZeRo
Banned via Administration
Sounds good BPC, but, As far as I know, the IC's D-Air beats MK's tornado.
On the same level vertically, it's another story (with the edge of the tornado, sideway).
@Hylian: As you are an IC's player, could you corroborate this information? Thanks.
I mean, nadoing IC's uair is a pretty common thing in the match-up at high levels, Ic's know how to avoid it, but it still hits sometimes if they mis-space or full hop on accident or something like that. Generally though Ic's poke with uair so that it's safe.
Edit: And yeah, Ic's can DI out of nado and dair, though this can be punished by moving the nado to the sides. It's a guessing game.
Edit: And yeah, Ic's can DI out of nado and dair, though this can be punished by moving the nado to the sides. It's a guessing game.