Character Matchup Discussion:Olimar

alirght ima be doing discussions and write ups for nitrix to help out so this weeks character discussion will be on *drum roll*



OLIMAR!!!!!

and please only helpful posts dont post stuff like "i hate this mu soooo much it sux cant do anything" etc.etc. be constructive ty~

I know that alot of characters that approach from a 45 degree angle like Peach can do pretty well against him since his attacks don't cover that area very well.


Sometimes Pit can catch a Olimar with a dive attack. This matchup is hard but not impossible, you just have to stay patient. Actually try to realize what attacks the Olimar is throwing out. Yes all of them look the same but oviously they aren't. If you can decipher his attack patterns then you know when to shield/airdodge etc and then Olimar isn't as impossible as he seems.


I think jab does well in this matchup, but I'll let others take it from here...

Thanks for the help Kuro :D

first off thank gad we r finally discussing this match its easily one of the most difficult matches for me id rather fight a metagay

i play an oli a lot and i find it helps to grab and jab as much as possible since oli loves to sheild grab every thing, jab has a decent chance at poking
to beat him pit has to really in his face and aggro as hell, arrows loose to pikmen and oli laughs in the face of planking seeing as how he can grab his if we try to edrop and uair or drop hop arrow
and his pikmen has crazy priority espesicially in the air
pit=plum
olimar=green
fair>fair
dair, yellow or purple>uair
uair>every attack pit has
the only thing pit can do to punish oli's smashes are jab and utilt because they have very little ending lag

like dskank said you should go as aggro as you can without being suicidal. kill his pikmin when you have an opportuinity but dont freak out when they attatch to you because oli's love to attack distracted opponents. dont ever give them the opportunity to pull out more pikmin. if they ever run out (unlikely) or low(more likely) try to gimp them as their recovery sucks w/out pikmin.

One mistake people sometimes make with Olimar is not capitalizing on his low Pikmin count because they just took alot of damage or stuff like that. However when Olimar has few Pikmin, you need to stay on him and make him pay. Its like seeing Pit during his Up-B, you do your best to capitalize.

kk sound advice guys keep it coming

(is waiting for different ppl to post....)

Annoying matchup, long awaited this discussion.

This is what works for me:
I learned to stay on him and never go complete defensive. Pikmin have low priority and usually get destroyed.

If you arrow camp, he throws pikmin. Dtilt is good to kill pikmin. It pops them high or kills. They have different hp's, so maybe we can make a pikmin combo video. =p but seriously he'll start plucking pikmin, but its virtually lagless move.

But I haven't played this matchup enough... So I hope I helped.

You guys should invite the Olimars over to talk.

^^ i did this already and no response...

Nitrix said:

I know that alot of characters that approach from a 45 degree angle like Peach can do pretty well against him since his attacks don't cover that area very well.

Click to expand...

This is wrong...that 45 degree angle thing has been debunked waaay long ago...people used to say kirby counters Olimar for this reason and now that match-up is like 65-35 Oli

anyway

dskank said:

first off thank gad we r finally discussing this match its easily one of the most difficult matches for me id rather fight a metagay

i play an oli a lot and i find it helps to grab and jab as much as possible since oli loves to sheild grab every thing, jab has a decent chance at poking
to beat him pit has to really in his face and aggro as hell, arrows loose to pikmen and oli laughs in the face of planking seeing as how he can grab his if we try to edrop and uair or drop hop arrow
and his pikmen has crazy priority espesicially in the air
pit=plum
olimar=green
fair>fair
dair, yellow or purple>uair
uair>every attack pit has
the only thing pit can do to punish oli's smashes are jab and utilt because they have very little ending lag

Click to expand...

^^ this is right


Pit mains...you actually have to fight this time around...there is no campin involved with this matchup...in fact you will very seldom shoot arrows unless you are using it as a combo finisher or to hit an oli offstage

Pikman Make arrows look like Nerf dart gun shots. Planking doesnt work becuase of the way Oli can grab people off the edge or just keep throwing Fsmash over the edge...forcing you to get up

in this matchup olis worst place to be is over you. Uair is his worst enemy...pikman have the worst priority so if you space your u-airs correctly Oli will never trade with you (let alone beat you out)

a common approach I do is wait for an oli to do Short hop pikman throw...as soon as I see this I run in and go for the grab...if i get a pikman attached to me..its whatever..its a fair trade for the 5-10 damage I might take from the pikman for the damage/set-up I get with a grab) the reason I do this is because NO Olimar will jump from this position...when they see you running in they will either air dodge, nair or fair...jumping will only put them in a worse position because then you can just uair them

unless its a white pikman I don't worry tooo hard about what is on me...I mean when you have space get it off...but don't panic when a pikman is on you.

more stuff later after I play Logic again

k we know that this is gonna be a boxing match so now discuss what moves are best against him upclose, how to get gimps off him which can be vital, and any particularly effective approaces,baits, and mindgames on olimar

Olimar is a dirty *** ****. Needed to get that out first thing.
I agree that being very aggresive is the way to play this match up, ussualy always works for me.

This match up is much easier when looking at it at this perspective.
I ussually always rush in carefully for a grab that will launch oli in the air. While in the air oli is vulnerable as hell. Oli knows this, he will be wanting to get to the ground while avoiding you, since thats where he ***** pit. At this point i just wait for his landing decision. Where will he land? Will he land with an air dodge? Will he land with an attack? Doesnt matter, since oli is very vulnerable while landing because the first frame he touches the ground (same with other characters) Hes very vulnerable. its just too fun and easy to not take advantage of this. Oli, a lot of the time will try and hit you with some shiz so i block then punish with any one move including up tilt or a down throw to make oli up in the air again. if my shield runs a bit too low from getting hit a lot i like to pressure oli with purposely inaccurate arrows straight up and near him. most of the time, for me anyways, this will ussually make the oli player air dodge into the ground instead of doing an attack. eck im rambling too much.... anways long story short oli is so much worse in the air. If he can just be kept off the ground period pit will have a MUCH easier time against him because he grills pit's buns when he is on the ground and stable. Just one tip that ussually works for me try it out.

Dair is amazing is this matchup. You can use it to pop him into the air, and once he's there you can use it's wide horizontal range to keep him there. Actually, Dair is just an amazing juggle move, use it in any matchup, lol.

K, Pit vs Oli is 60-40 Oli's if not 55-45. Now what you need to know is that stages also effect what type of pikmin he can pull out. Delfino he tends to get more purple pikmin than usual. something about metal stages. It's weird. Anyways, If norfair is legal you can def camp him to death. Pivot arrow while running away make sure you're like 2/3rd's of FD distance to do it so you dont get grabbed by his pikmin. Purple pikmin up smash kills pit around 98%-107%, Red up-smash kills around 98%- 117% <-- With good di, and fresh. Also PIT CANNOT METEOR CANCEL So please watch out for Blue, Red and purple pikmin Dair. Jab Infinite stops pikmin, and so does Nair. If you want to be mean Side-B them back and they will latch on to Oli and damage him. Also there's a glitch if one pikmin grabs your wing you'll take no damage if it pummels you. At 0% Pit can grab throw forward, buffer dash Up-smash. which is like 27%-32%, then proceed into camping arrows A BIT (Pivot arrows are good in this match-up). It's kinda hard but once you realize how to fight him it'll get easier. Also as TKO Stated Oli can grab you from the edge so be careful. Obv stage CP's are Norfair, Jungle Japes, FD, and Rainbow. Stages where you can run away if necessary, And force him to be offensive or gives oli a limit to camping like Norfair lava, Rainbow constantly moving, Japes water, the croc's ALWAYS Come around X:X5xx, and X:X7xx 5 and 7 on the last seconds on the clock I think I have to check again. Watch out for Falling Nair cause he can Up-smash if he auto cancels it out right. That's if this stage is legal. I'll post more later.

now normally i would wait for more responses but most active pits have responded so now 2 things...one discuss counterpicks (urs were noted Dualseeker ^^) and ratio and best neutral overall for fighting him what % will he ideally die at and what % can we survive 2

No he's to light he'll float away. That's why i said 0% F-throw Buffer sliding Upsmash. You could catch an Oli with bad di on the stutter step f-smash

Top counterpick forr me vs oli is ****. The water wastes pikmen making it harder to recover, the left side especially. If he bans japes I go RC.

Oh boy alot of people are discussng Oli right now XD

Japes isn't really good for a CP. Oli camps the right side and it can actually be really beneficial to him. RC is a CP that everyone overestimates, and there's several AT's that Oli can pull out in RC as well. Oddly enough, I know Oli's that'll CP characters to RC and Japes. And imo FD is almost always good against Oli. PS1 is often good as a CP, and I'll usually ban Frigate as an Oli, but that's usually against MK's.

Oli kill moves are: Purple/Blue Uthrow, Blue Bthrow, Fair/Bair/Dair, Usmash, Dsmash, Fsmash. There's a bunch of kill percentages based on what Pikmin you're using. Have fun.

Edit: Ah, just realized this was my 500th post...what a waste...

I use ART, seems to be working just fine.

Frigate Orphaen is my facorite counter against an oli. Yeah there is the one edge which hurts oli bad. The Ceiling is a decent height too. The stage is also fairly small which forces it into close quarters which oli is one of the few characters pit ever wants to be close to. The stage flip is the kicker here. Yes it can result in a free stock for us which is great, however it always puts oli into the air, where Pit dominates him anyway.

Olimar is a ground master, so any stage that makes him leave it is great. I prefer frigate to RC for oli so I don't have to work to get back close to him due to keeping up with the stage, but it's still decent.

What pit doesn't ban RC? Not trying to troll here or anything, I'm just curious as to why you wouldn't.

Ban RC??? What Olimar likes RC as a counterpick?

Damix91 said:

Ban RC??? What Olimar likes RC as a counterpick?

Click to expand...

L cancel obv

I meant oli not pit. sorry, my bad.

St4ticFir3 said:

I meant oli not pit. sorry, my bad.

Click to expand...

L cancel doesn't ban RC, I mean Oli gets more yellow and blue on that stage.

More yellow pik over rides being a tether toon on RC vs our aerial mobility?

It's not that bad of a stage to be honest. That's like people picking Delfino cause his pikmin die when they touch the water.

Maybe I play against bad oli's but that doesn't seem like a bad strat to me. If I can force my op to re-pik that takes time out of his game possibly allowing me to punish. Does that mean that I will always get to punish it? No. Is the opportunity worth it to me? Sure.

I mean I play Logic, the olimar. He's Pretty darn solid. Like when he re-pick's I just shoot arrows, we both have different way's to fight oli, but it's whatever works for you best. I honestly think RC is a good stage for pit vs oli, but you know some oli's could be like Omg RC I LOVE THAT STAGE, or something else. I personally pick Norfair if it's legal, if not I pick Frigate or Battlefield.

Lol I think I confused you with my error'ed post from earlier this week. The olis I play ban RC. They hate playing it. I'm really just getting into the competitive scene. I've only been to a handful of tournys so the level of olimar I play probably is fairly weak in comparison. I wasn't trying to disagree, just open up a line of discussion

It's all good. I mean there is always gonna some oli's who don't ban RC. Cause they love it or something. Just gotta have some back up Cp's

Hi guys.

I want to rep Pit the best I can where I can, so let me try a crack at this matchup for a sec. Soon, I'll be able to produce results because next tournament I'm going half and half like I keep saying I'm going to. (Pit and Wario)

For Olimar:

STAGES:

Conservatives Stagelists or Extreme, Olimar will no matter what ban RC (unless named L_Cancel) unless they have a pocket character lik MK themself. There's no point in not banning RC. If they don't ban it, think about your character and think about what they are thinking; they might be trying to mindgame you to switch or NOT pick RC. Do not do the latter, but do the former if you feel that Pit won't be able to handle some gay counter character that's better than Pit on RC.

More conservative stagelist?
Reccomendations:

RC>Smashville>Frigate>Lylat>=Castle Siege>Delfino>Brinstar?

More liberal stagelist?

Norfair>RC>the rest

Explanations:

RC doesn't need explanation. But I'll abstract it.

Give no quarter fighting Olimar up close. When you start, you must keep on him on this stage to advantage of his weak recovery, just like any stage, except, this stage will help you in the movements. Try to focus attack when the stage forces him to move, so he's not just standing his ground, he's got to move.

You have free reign for recovery here. Just don't use WoI stupidly. Recover low to avoid being gimped by a purple if you do use WoI, glide safely, don't use glide for offensive purposes unless you want to be random-upsmashed because it's hard to see Oli here a bit since he's a bit small.

I won't give much else, since it's not going to be common you get to fight Oli here.

Smashville:

Camp top platform when you can for camping purposes (when it's on the sides), but when it's in the middle of the stage try to lure him onto it or in the air in general so that you can take advantage of his weakness as was discussed earlier, his under side.

To lure him, simply get a good grab on him if you can anticipate one of his grabs. It's hard, because you can't spot dodge, you'll get grabbed. you can roll, you'll get smashed. You have short hop past him while air dodging, and choose where to land, either in front or behind, and how far away to land. If you can time it right and he predicts your attempt to grab him, he'll likely either grab (if you're in front of him) or smash (behind). Try powershield the smash if he's facing away, and then grab.

After the grab, throw him up or down (both make him go up, but use up throw when he's at low percents), and then follow up, while trying to keep him on the floating platform. I believe it will be very difficult for him to manuever around your uairs, mind-games to bair or anything. He either needs to jump up and stay high away from you, which puts him in a worse position... Or he will shield. Let his shield lower.
Use short hop uairs when he's above you, full hop uairs when you see a whistle because he's so high up. Landing a successful uair will lead to a weird trajectory of which Oli will be sent giving you the upper hand in the scenario (for edgeguarding purposes or general setups)

This is generally my take on the matchup, given that you choose a stage more regular like SV, or a wonky or different stage like RC. Don't pick polar stages like FD or low-ceiling stages like Halberd. The only reason I suggest Brinstar is because it helps you kill faster on the sides and you can plank, plus lava really hurts Oli more than it hurts you.

Tell me what you guys think. (sorry for this being so late)

good summery, the air dodge aproach sounds promising

That's ridiculous. That's L_Cancel logic. (no double-name-search pun intended)...That's madness.. THATS... AAAHHHHH.

Second chance? The problem with that is the movement of the stage, like I explained in my post. You may be able to grab more ledges for parts of the stage, and you may have more ground time, but Pit can shark through the entire level practically. I completely believe that waiting for movement of the stage (like right after RC's cruise ship sinks) to pressure Olimar from below is really helpful. Like smashville, and in this matchup in general, Olimar's tenderest spots are below him and in the 45 degree angle that everyone stresses above him...

The thing about gimping Olimar that may give you trouble is he tries to stand his ground on still parts of the stage, which you shouldn't be trying to capitalize on but rather camping and sharking on.

sorry i havent done the write-up summary for this yet...im still waiting on mods to give me ownership of the matchup thread...they still havent responded =/

Sorry I was too enthusiastic in my reply. I didn't mean to confuse you. In fact, might I say that I'm still alarmingly confused and surprised that any Oli really likes RC at all.