'The Big Picture' - Kirby vs. Metaknight

Foreword

For the longest time in the beginning of my smash career, I felt Kirby vs. MK was anywhere from even to disadvantage for Kirby; generally I leaned towards more even-slight disadvantage. At some point in time, within the last 3-4 mnths, that opinion changed to 'clear disadvantage'. Comparing frame data, camp tactics, kill options, etc. just made the gap between the Dreamland characters even wider and with that knowledge I became disheartened by the match-up. For a time I played MK, and strictly MK, because I felt Kirby did not have the tools to defeat a MK-main who played the match-up correctly. But the night is darkest just before the morning...

I've decided it's time to re-invent my opinion of the match-up and in order to do that I needed to re-examine Kirby; but more precisely Kirby against MK. Theory is great but it can only get you so far; eventually you need to see it in practice. So I went directly to the source of the one Kirby that handles the match-up better than any other. He's beaten more top MKs than any other Kirby and with the wealth of videos at my disposable, I set forth to pull apart, examine, recreate ChuDat's Kirby. Let's go.

Objective

The way I plan on introducing what I've learned is in increments. First off, I'm going to show 'Case#1' of the Kirby/MK match-up which is also the shortest match w/ Kirby/MK of the three cases I'll bring forward. After the introduction of Case#1 I will introduce the idea refered to as 'The Big Picture'. Next off, I'll present 'Case#2' which is a moderate length match w/ Kirby/MK; with that presented I'll then discuss the corralation between Case#1 and Case#2 and why the numbers are what they are (at this time I'll explain similarties and strategies easily identifiable between the two cases). Once more we'll touch on 'The Big Picture' before I present 'Case#3' which will be the longest match w/ Kirby/MK. Once all three cases have been presented I'll will once again examine the similarities, disparities, nuances, and define 'The Average Condition'. Finally, I will summarize what I've set before you, the reader and fellow Kirby enthusiast, and complete the final piece of 'The Big Picture'. My goal is to make the Kirby/MK match-up as easy to understand, and implement, as possible. I hope through this 'case study' that I can remedy my views of this match-up and assist the Kirby boards w/ what could be considered 'The Match-up' for Kirby. So let's jump into the first case.

Take a look at these numbers and allow yourself to 'theorize' (most likely correctly) what they are. Hopefully you've come to the conclusion that the letters corralate to the buttons on your controller; the second number is how often a move used w/ preceding button was used in this particular match and the third is the percent out of the total button inputs. Now let's break it down.

Button Usage

Strictly speaking of numbers you can see that the largest is 'A'. The most obvious deduction is that smashes, tilts, pummels, jabs, aerials are all 'A' moves. With all those options being available through 'A' it's obvious why 'A' was used the most, especially when you consider that any of those options are good damage rackers (and kill moves).
The next largest usage was 'L/R' which consists of aerial dodges, spot dodges, rolls and shields. If 'A' is your offense, and largest usage, then understandably 'L/R' is your defense, and the next largest usage.
Following your offense and your defense you have 'X/Y'; your recovery and 'bait'; Whether jumping offstage to pursue kills, or recovering back on to the stage, you'll use your jumps (read 'X/Y'). For those who've watched the video, you also notice that jumping onstage has a second use, aside from performing aerials, which would be 'baiting'.

Options (via Button Usage)

Aside from the numbers you can break down tactically, why usage amount varies between button inputs.
'A' is your damage racker, your follow-up attack, your kill move, your punish. Moves that use 'A' are useful, reliable, and/or just down-right good moves; examples of this include FSmash, BAir, UAir, etc.. Regardless of how you 'want' to play Kirby, chances are you'll still rely heavily on 'A' usage to assist in winning the match.
'L/R' is your 'get away', avoid, shield; In the duration of any match you can expect to use 'L/R' and the MK match-up is no exception. Against an opponent like MK with a wealth of options you can't expect to be able to move freely without having to manuever and shield often. Most approach and attack options against MK will involve shield as MK is able to respond and react fairly quickly to most Kirby options.
'X/Y' is your offstage/onstage everything. In order to pursue kills offstage you need 'X/Y', and the same goes for recovery, using aerials and baiting attacks. When approaching doesn't feel safe, jumping around is a good way to bait an attack from MK. If you feel confident in your ability to attain a kill, 'X/Y' can also be your 'go-to' for pursuing kills offstage.
I skipped 'Z' and 'B' usage earlier because I felt that the numbers in this match-up were, on average, low enough to merit minimal usage and thus mostly situational. 'Z' is primarily for getting off grab combos at low percents. 'B' is generally a special situation is which an move is usable under 'uncommon' circumstance.

The Big Picture pt.1

Now, before you think to yourself 'who doesn't know all this', let me explain why this is important. I feel that, while this is all basic knowledge, describing it and examining it with ONE match-up in mind (in this case Kirby/MK) allows the data to feel more...applicable.
ChuDat beats MKs. The numbers show us what ChuDat does to beat MK. What are YOU doing to beat MK? And secondly, is it working? If not, you can try and align your move usage to match that of ChuDat's; then you should be able to handle MKs according to your skill level and THAT my friends, is 'The Big Picture'.

So w/ 'The Big Picture' in mind, let's go back to Case#1 and re-examine what is before us.

Visual Reference

From this video we can definitely derive some key points, strategies, and most importantly 'button usage' situations. Let's start with 'Z' and 'A' usage most notably in the grab combo used several times throughout the match. The first time we see @ 0% of the first stock; it's the traditional FThrow combo [Fthrow>UAir>reverseUTilt>BAir]. Second use was on the second stock @ 0% in which the combo was completed even though the last two hits didn't connect (though he later did achieve connection). Last use was third stock @ 0% (notice the pattern?) in which each hit connected. The pattern is that each time Kirby grabbed MK, @ 0%, the FThrow combo was input and any other throw that wasn't @ 0% was NOT the FThrow combo. Whether this be primarily a 0% strategy OR purely due to his momentum is debatable and will have to be figured out by comparing this case to the last two case studies but most likely it's a 0% strategy Kirby can take into any match against MK. ( )
A good thing to notice is that anytime FSmash is used, the result was a kill on MK because it retains it's maximum freshness w/o use.
When can see that OverB is used only offstage - this can be filed under situational and consist of all the 'B' usage.
Onstage 'X/Y' baited MK into attacks or stalled while Kirby wait for MK to be within a certain range.
Lastly you can see that most of his attacks that don't string are shielded afterwards, and that most approaches were dash>shield which accounts for a lot of the 'L/R' usage.

These are the numbers of the time that each move is used by tallying even further. This is for a 1:37 timed match which is relatively short. So let's read into Case#2 which is moderately longer and see how the numbers stack up.

Button Usage

First off, let's look at the numbers compared to Case#1. The most obvious is an increase in button inputs overall which can easily be linked to the length of the match being longer. But when you look at the percents you can see two key points:
1. The 'Z' and 'B' inputs are relatively small as in Case#1 and 'A','X/Y', and 'L/R' are all still large.
2. More importantly, there's a switch in the highest amount of usage from 'A' (read attacking) and 'X/Y' (read recovery and bait).
Case#1 and Case#2 have similar properties i.e. Kirby vs MK, ChuDat, similar button usage percents but it's what they DON'T have in common that plays a factor. Case#1 was on a stationary starter, Smashville, while Case#2 is on Delfino, a good Kirby CP that 'transforms'. With the 'transformations' in mind, it's logical to deduce that 'X/Y' should be higher due to the stage moving into various areas requiring more 'recovery' to return to the stage. So 'X/Y' has a higher percent usage pushing 'A' and 'L/R' down one spot each.

​

"Ok, so I am sitting here typing this and I realize that some of this is boring and tedious but at no point are you required to read this. Even so, I feel as though I should assist in helping you, the reader, get through this so I decided an intermission was necessary. So a joke? 'What roads do ghost love?'
...
...
'Dead ends ;D'"

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Visual Reference

Hopefully w/ my terrible joke you feel revitalized. Now on to discussion of Kirby tactics against MK seen in the match:
Ok, so, we can see Kirby pulls of the 'FThrow' combo when MK is @ 0% which was also a tactic in the first case. I believe we can say that against MK, pulling off the FThrow combo @ 0% everytime is the optimal start to the MK match-up as it gaurantees the FThrow>UAir damage and w/ a bit of luck allows the UTilt>BAir follow up damage. What I feel may be an outlier to this is Mk's second stock @ 0% where Kirby could not safely return to the center of the stage AND perserve MK's 0% forcing Kirby to attack to return.
Something else to note is that on the sandy area Kirby stay in the middle on the high ground. This is a safegaurd against early kills I assume and puts Kirby in 'stage control'. DTilt is used a lot on this area which is one of it's situational uses.
On the second transformation back to the aerial main stage, we see that USmash is used - this can be filed under situational as well; similarly @ 3:27ish of the video DSmash is used situationally.
1:06-1:20 contains a LOT of DAir that accounts for most of DAir's use during this match. Obviously situational but **** was it fun to watch.
Rock was finally used off the top when Kirby was not visible @ 2:38-2:40ish of the video. Completely situational and is the only time rock is used AT ALL in the three cases. (Once in three matches, probably more, and it lands.)
W/ the aforementioned situational uses listed I feel that addressing this topic of 'situational' is in order. The Kirby/MK is linear; this is so because MK has a lot of options and Kirby has a few good optinos to deal w/ MK. In order to win this MU (or optimize your chances) you have to align your strategy to fit the criteria you wish to accomplish; If you want to beat MK then the linear strategy that works is your best bet. Anything outside of this linear strategy is 'extra' and w/ anything extra must be used in small doses. Small doses = chance occurance of uncommon conditions in which a 'situational' move is low risk/ hi reward thus making it safe.

​

"Anyone else watch the video? At 2:47 he goes for a Kirbicide!!! And FAILS. D: This is because he wasn't close enough to the blastzone. Secondly, MK destroys Kirby out of inhale breaks. Even so, Kirby had three stocks, hi percents and MK had one stock @ 0%; the perfect time for Kirbicide!"

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'The Big Picture pt.2'

If Case#1 was an intro to the linear strategy that works against MK, then Case#2 is evidence of why it works as well as 'the extra's. It must be mentioned again that all of this is leading to how Kirby can beat MK. We are looking @ ChuDat's videos because they are visual guides to beating MKs and, w/ MK being well represented in tournament, this is something worth reviewing.
Now to address the naysayers and nitpickers thinking 'Well it's ChuDat' or 'but he was winning most of the time during those matches'. I can agree that it IS ChuDat which in itself is reason nitpick because of course he can do it, it's Chu; which I can both agree and disagree w/ as a reason to nitpick. Fortunately, I have remedies for this; you're reading it. I'm outlining a skeleton of Kirby/MK, along w/ detailing the inner workings of the match-up so that any Kirby can practice and implement this playstyle. As for the second 'he's in the lead the whole time', let's just delve into Case#3 (which can also be refered to as 'Average Conditions' :D).

Button Usage

I'll barely mention the obvious increase in button usage. Once again this match is on Delfino and the button input usage is similar to Case#2. W/ those two comments let's jump right into examining Kirby/MK in Case#3.

Visual Reference

Right off the bat we see Kirby aiming for the grab combo @ 0%. Before Kirby gets off the combo though, a 'situation' arises for Kirby to gain a stock lead, through a Kirby AT discovered by Fromundaman <3, called the Ninja Spike. This backfires in the end but just goes to show that if the situation arises, Kirby can gain a massive lead through the use of a rarer (read less commonly used) attack/ AT.
From :59 of the video to 1:10ish we see MK DTilt lock Kirby which brings us to!!! 'The Average Condition'.

​

"'The Average Condition' is what I affectionately name a common scenario of the Kirby/MK match-up in which MK has the lead (usually large percent margin or even a full stock). From here on out Kirby must fight to stay alive, while trying to regain the lead and/or win. The most common mistake is using hi risk/hi reward tactics in which Kirby uses attack that, when connected, deal large damage and/or skip straight to an aggressive playstyle. This is NOT what Kirby should do in this scenario. A better tactic is the use of a LOT of low risk/low reward and low risk/ moderate reward attacks that slowly allow Kirby to regain momentum and ultimately help to pull Kirby out of the deficit MK normally puts Kirby in w/ few hi risk/hi reward."

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Back to the match, we see from 'The Average Condition' til the end of the match an increase in 'X/Y' (to bait), 'L/R' (to protect), and 'A' usage (mostly BAirand UAir to punish and follow-up; also FTilt to space). This follows the idea of low risk/low reward to regain momentum and decrease the gap between MK's percent and stock and Kirby's percent and stock.
In this last match, while it IS the longest, you see Kirby following the same basic strategy as in the first two matches. A very slow, methodical yet simple strategy that is proven to work. Before I discuss the 'final piece' of The Big Picture I'd also like to point out jab>DTilt>grab is a fairly common string throughout the videos when Kirby and MK are in close quarters. :D Cool.

'The Big Picture pt.3'

Coming to the end of this case study I feel as though I've expressed my point thoroughly w/ good evidence, logical examination and examples. I believe that through the understanding and use of these 'key points', 'button usage' percents (and why your's should be simlar), and strategic tactics, any Kirby should be able to beat a MK of similar skill level. Personally, I feel that through strict adherence to what works, most Kirbies should be able to handle any MK secondary, and go 50/50 w/ MK mains. Now, you may look @ that and ask, '50/50? I thought you said I could BEAT MKs?!?' but if you calm yourself and think about it....50/50 is great for Kirby/MK. How many other characters go even w/ MKs? Exactly, that's The Big Picture.

Conclusion

To conclude this project, I decide that instead of reviewing everything and finalizing my thoughts in a nice, little paragraph I will instead say a few things I have on my mind concerning this project.
For starters, coming to the end of it I realize that what I have here is just the beginning of a larger project. I've decided that in addition to all I have already, I plan on comparing move sets and detailing counters to each and every MK tactic whether it be glide attack, DAir camping, or even FTilt; I'll be slowly elaborating on everything through my smash career as I learn new things. Secondly, I've decided that once I've had enough of a break, maybe I'll try doing the same thing for ICs, D3, R.O.B. and/or Snake. I know ICs like the back of my hand so that one in particular is close to my heart, which means it'll be the next one if there is a next one.

​

"To end this, I just wanna say; THE ANSWER is still always THE ANSWER, and MK got nothing Kirby can't handle as long as you stay calm, and bait the bat. Love ya Kirbies <3."

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BTW, I don't know how to flippin' indent paragraphs...


Edit: Or separate paragraphs apparently.

Update1: 10/26/10- >_>Added percent of use of each move in the collapsed sections.

did you really link to me vs chu on delfino =[

that was like before I even picked up MK. and a year old!
idk how much good it can do you lol.

>.> I think the point of my project was to prove that this match up isn't bad when played correctly. So...I'm going to assume the first part of your post was to............vent?

edit: Ninja'd. So wait...>_> Xeno = Stingers?

yeah that was my tag in melee, and when I started brawl I used that tag for awhile too. I switched to the STING tag a little bit after that tourney >.>

but anyway

that video is a terrible example of the kirby vs. mk metagame lol. I used ROB in the other 4 matches if you notice >.> My MK was terrible back then, I only seriously picked him up after this tourney: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=228939 which was after the tourney from that video. I only went MK because I knew how badly Chu ***** on Delfino and I knew my ROB had no chance so I was just gonna try to gay him with MK >.> didn't work lol

Hm, now I feel as though my project is tainted. See, I figured if ppl are in vids w/ M2k, Ally, ChuDat, etc., etc. then they must be good because otherwise why would they be on the internet; I mean, somewhere in the back of my mind I thought the second MK sucked but I assumed ChuDat was just severely outplaying them. Tbh, it doesn't matter so much that it wasn't a good/top MK because the videos are only references to view Kirby in that MU. No body cares about the MKs and this thread isn't about the MKs so it's irrelevant.

Stingers, pretend it's not you and go back and edit your post to reflect the new lies.

noo thats deception =[ the world must know the truth

JoWii you're the best. c:

You are inspiring me to do better against MKs, really good stuff, thank youuuu

Good effort here, JoWii :D I love detailed match analysis like this.

I would personally like to see more about which moves were used and the percentage of those moves, rather than strictly which buttons were pressed, which I don't think is of much use at all. I think stating which moves were used and how often would be a lot more informative. I remember you talking about this and about Chu's % use of b-air last Tuesday, but I didn't find that in this post?

Overall this is a good concept though, if you expanded on it to other matchups / players then you might learn a lot about not just Kirby, but the overall game.

Good stuff

Woooooooooooooooow ****

Will, you're wrong; in the colllllloololololappsed sections are the number of times each move is used (he just forgot the percents).

look, all i know is that kirby can pwn metaknight any day just like the video games.
Don't matter if he's on top tier. all i know is that you can just suck him up and spit it out.