Matchup Re-Discussion: Kirby

Resources for discussion:

Current MU Ratio (subject to change after discussion): 52:48 in Pikachu's favor
Can we CG him?: No

Our Original Matchup Thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225388
Their Matchup Opinion/Thread: 50:50 in neither's favor http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=271023

Pikachu Frame Data: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=223901
Kirby Frame Data: http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=39030
(sue me, that's what their guide links to)

Summary:

In progress.

Alright, time to get these back on track.

Some random thoughts and questions.

• Tjolt is awesome in this matchup. Don't let him eat you it because hit tjolt is better than yours.
• My limited experience in this has been "camp like crazy and don't let him eat you." Anyone else?
• Watch out for that fsmash. That thing is deceptively disjointed, I believe his feet are invincible?
• Careful about getting grabbed at low%, you'll eat about 40-60% before you can get out.
• Assuming the worst happens and you get eaten, anyone know how the power-up dropping mechanics work? How do you knock that hat off?

I have no idea what you're talking about. It says Kirby and has always said Kirby.

A newbie 2 cents:

He'll Bair all day long.
Bair is one of the pink ball best moves, it's fast, disjointed and awfully safe - and it's also a good revenge killing move if you don't DI decently.

Don't just airdodge the aerial hammer, fastfall airdodge or jump. They're ALWAYS aiming to hit with the second hit, predicting your airdodge.

Keep your usmash unstale: killing kirby early is what's going to make this match-up flow

Punish fair. Fair is a disjointed multihit attack, but lags enough for serious punishment, you can time your jump and nair him easily on the lag. Since this, they'll not use Fair a lot, but keep PSing bair and they'll get frustrated and try the unsafe option. If you get hit, sdi and Nair/Uair

Watch-out for his grab game: Kirby has a lot of %specific mini-combos, mostly on low % (such as f-throw>uair>re-grag>fthrow>aerial sideb). Mind your DI and nair him if he don't do things frame-tight.

Thunder is too good: Kirby has bad aerial speed and is very light, so utilt/usmash > thunder is marvellous killing setup.

Watch for his dash attack: is a good one and the hitboxes are well, strange.

Info taken from the brazillian "Ultimate Multiple-hit SDI Guide"
Dash Attack: SDI up and at kirby's back;
Fair: >Kirby coming at you: up and at his back
>Kirby still at air/kirby retreating: sdi up and away from him.

Hope it'll be some help.

Dash Attack: SDI up and at kirby's back;

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Does that mean we have to SDI up and TDI at kirby's back?

When attacking kirby in the air its best to go under him or over considering his vertical attacks are slow.

If you ever approach or have to be careful on how you apply on attacking his shield for if you go behind a simple oos bair will get ya or from the front shield grab. I think FH nair or uair will work best.

Yea kirby basically has a better b move than alot of characters lol.

His uair is annoying through platforms for if spaced well you can't punish it. Also hard to punish if your in the air considering our bad downward options.<.<

Dtilt is your best friend in this mu and for most of kirby's moves can't out space it besides mayb his ftilt, therefore you have something to look on the ground as well.

Kirby's bair is quite unbearable and yea if you dont ps then a spaced bear it is a safe bair<.< but thats why we got tjolt<3

Kirby has quite a few mixups with his fair but if you get hit by a fh fair at low percents for any reason I fill sry for your cuz the possibilities are just remarkable. 1 possible option kirby has is FH fair<uair<grab. If you go behind him cuz of di expect a bair.

Kirby's dtilt trips half the time so your options and his options must be quick for if you slip up thats a free grab or fsmash if he slips up well your just free if he chose a bad option.

In kirby's utilt and grab combos di is the key to not getting chained. You will take at least 40 damage if hit by a grab or utilt if kirby buffers or just plain out exact but a good kirby will know what to do afterwards.

Ftilt is great here too because of its unexpected killing and speed.

Utilt/usmash< thundah! works great cuz kirby has a bad airdodge not as bad as peach or cf's but still not good enough.(I may be wrong so some1 plz correct me if his airdodge is good.)

Kirby's fsmash is powerful that being said it should outprioritized a couple of moves and has a lingering hitbox so be careful.

Dont get caought in kirby's sweetspot dsmash for that is probably his best vertical kill move. It also has a not bad horizontal hitbox with. Dont try spotdodging this linger hitbox.<.<

A attack, dsmash or fair should get rid of kirby's coy ability thanks to all the hits.

Gimping kirby's recovery should be easy since it is so simple recovery so bair or qa his recovery on the ledge or you could perhaps go for a footstool....

Kirby's lingering hit boxes+his bair should easily knock you out of qac so be careful when recovery or using it to get around or mindgamingly.

My ratio input is 48:52 kirby's favor cuz a big part is camping if kirby eats you your going to approach and approaching kirby is tough.

PZ said:

My ratio input is 48:52 kirby's favor cuz a big part is camping if kirby eats you your going to approach and approaching kirby is tough.

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I personally would give it a 50:50. (49.99:50.01 if possible.)

No pika knows wut to do in the kirby mu?

Be patient.

If you are above him in the air, get down

His Throw ****s are really easily DIable (F-throw Uair or D-throw u-tilt is all he should be getting). for F-throw uair, SDI the uair up and away, up is better if you only wanna do one. For d-throw u-tilt, SDI up. Kirby does have mix-ups and air chases after this, but that is all that is guaranteed.

Our spacing > his. D-tilt on the ground is amazing, and if he is approaching in the air facing towards you, F-tilt is amazing. If he is facing away, try to get under him if you can and uair him.

Kirby, like Sonic, will try to be baiting Air Dodges so they can F-smash you at kill %s (Which for kirby is like...90). Don't let him fool you, choose the safer option of either QA on the level or go for the ledge.

Camp as hard as you can, it helps a bunch. Don't let him get your power, it is really hard to approach him if he has it.

55:45 Pika

ESAM said:

Be patient.

If you are above him in the air, get down

His Throw ****s are really easily DIable (F-throw Uair or D-throw u-tilt is all he should be getting). for F-throw uair, SDI the uair up and away, up is better if you only wanna do one. For d-throw u-tilt, SDI up. Kirby does have mix-ups and air chases after this, but that is all that is guaranteed.

Our spacing > his. D-tilt on the ground is amazing, and if he is approaching in the air facing towards you, F-tilt is amazing. If he is facing away, try to get under him if you can and uair him.

Kirby, like Sonic, will try to be baiting Air Dodges so they can F-smash you at kill %s (Which for kirby is like...90). Don't let him fool you, choose the safer option of either QA on the level or go for the ledge.

Camp as hard as you can, it helps a bunch. Don't let him get your power, it is really hard to approach him if he has it.

55:45 Pika

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Yay! some1 IS there.