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Buffered Pivot Grab: a new really hard infinite

Tesh

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Oh this is nice, now DDD will have a **** matchup that matters?
 

stingers

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This would be banned along with his infinites on luigi/dk/etc sadly. but it looks insanely hard to begin with. you have to buffer a reverse pivot grab, which is easier said than done =/
 

Luxor

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...I thought this was going to be already known or incorrect, and buffering things isn't exactly new, but this... If I still had homebrew on my wii I would test this frame perfect right now.

And hey, some places don't have those infinites banned! This could probably work on other character's too- look at the range of the pivot grab in the video.
 

Tesh

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I think if people are willing to learn IC chaingrabs, people will be willing to learn this. Its still just repeatedly buffering a few buttons.

For all we know, this could result in more infinites for DDD if he grabs people on slopes like the ones one Brinstar, Yoshis Island etc.

Also, I thought most places didn't have infinites banned...
 

stingers

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ic chaingrab is a lot easier.
this is comparable to like ISJR timing. doable, but not really consistently
 

Tesh

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I thought ISJR required frame perfection and could only be buffered under specific circumstances.

This can be buffered out of a dthrow, and there is nothing else to worry about...

Then again I only managed to do it once on Charizard with my clumsy fingers.
 

stingers

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I meant ISJR timing in ease of execution, sorry.
ISJR timing is somewhat "easy" because you -know- the lengths of the moves and how long it takes them to come out, allowing you to get it somewhere around 30% of the time (for me anyway) even with the frame perfect deal.
This timing is a lot of actions that have to be buffered in 1/6th of a second, and sorry if you start when 11 frames are remaining, you messed up. There are also more inputs, even if you have more time to do it. My record for this is twice in a row now, though I was only trying for about 5-10 minutes. About 30% consistency the same.

So I guess I was really only referring to myself when I said comparable to ISJR, but I don't think there will be very many people who can pull this off anyway. Add onto the fact that there are very few DDD mains left, and most people that have a pocket DDD won't want to put in the effort to learn this...and even if you do, it might be banned in your region? I do think its really cool, I just doubt we'll see very much use of it is all.
 
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This is.... ridiculously hard. You have to enter a direction, then let the input return to neutral. THREE TIMES IN A ROW. IN 10 FRAMES. I'm going to go ahead and claim "that just doesn't ****ing work".

EDIT: Also hi DDD boards, imma troll 'round here a while.
 
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Super wavedash. You have to enter one direction for one frame, then the opposite direction the very next frame, F31-F32 iirc. And yet Phanna can do it consistently. This isn't physically impossible. Difficult, yes, but not impossible. Though chaining several of these together would indeed be pretty *****in.
 

stingers

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I don't think people realize this is pretty much.. physically impossible.
it's not impossible. I got it twice in a row. it's just really, really hard.
btw, starturds, SWD is like ISJR in that you "know" the lengths of the moves anyway so even though it requires frame perfect timing, you have a feel for when you have to do it anyway, AND the inputs are a lot simpler.

this has very difficult inputs =/
 

SuSa

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SJR is easily buffered for every step. (It's not like you SJR the moment you input the rising aerial). SWD is "get the first frame down" and its just a quick input right after that. 1 frame inputs are not impossible.

I'm willing to ride on the fact that 3 precise inputs within 10 frames is much harder - and if you get it, it may have been due to luck.

Also how does DDD's diminishing infinite effect this (EG: Why you must pummel before you dthrow after.. 4? throws or is it 5?)
 

Luxor

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Well, it IS the same input every time. It's like a BDACUS except maybe harder. With 10 frames to do it in, this will become waaay easier than SWD and easier than actually timing a SJR. I mean, certain characters have tricksies like Ganon's jump--> instant DJ-->Uair-->SJR that make SJR easy, but if you're just falling out of the sky and you want to SJR you have 1 frame to begin the aerial AND 1 frame to DJ, and you have to get them both right. This is much easier than that, it's just a memorized sequence of inputs and within a week there will be 6 different methods of doing it and we'll all have a 75% success rate.

I'm getting HBC back on my Wii so I can frame test this. It probably works on more than just Snake.

@Susa with stale Dthrow infinite thingy: I'll look into that too, but I'd wager it's irrelevant in this case. If it does turn out to matter, that's good because it will be slightly more situational and less likely to be banned.
 

stingers

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Well, it IS the same input every time. It's like a BDACUS except maybe harder. With 10 frames to do it in, this will become waaay easier than SWD and easier than actually timing a SJR. I mean, certain characters have tricksies like Ganon's jump--> instant DJ-->Uair-->SJR that make SJR easy, but if you're just falling out of the sky and you want to SJR you have 1 frame to begin the aerial AND 1 frame to DJ, and you have to get them both right. This is much easier than that, it's just a memorized sequence of inputs and within a week there will be 6 different methods of doing it and we'll all have a 75% success rate.

I'm getting HBC back on my Wii so I can frame test this. It probably works on more than just Snake.
If you check the uploader comments it has a list of who all it works on.
Bowser
Wolf
Charizard
Ivysaur
Snake
 

stingers

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i dunno...i just did? years of trying to learn shdl with fox in melee with x instead of analog stick helped my fingers move pretty fast lol
i'm not even sure that the stick resets to neutral every time, but I can't really tell when I'm doing it. I tried doing it on 1/4th speed and couldn't get it at all.
 
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Guys, I'm not saying this is going to be easy to do, I'm saying it's not impossible. And how is getting a feel for this any different from getting a feel for ISJR/SWD? Unless DDD's DThrow is a weight-dependent throw (is it? Idk) , it's not going to be a problem getting this into your muscle memory.
 

Dark 3nergy

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dont go jumping the guns yet guys

First off as for the infinites Innocentroads listed, prolly due to their slide + pivot grabs range. I'm willing to bet theres a possibility it does work on other characters in the cast just looking at Vayseths CG list.

I'm at work now and will explore this tonight
 

A2ZOMG

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Stop wasting your time, play Balanced Brawl, where none of this infinite bull**** is an issue and where DDD is actually a better character.

/trolling
 

SuSa

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I'm sorry, I didn't realize Balanced Brawl had weekly or biweekly tournaments in most regions and that everyone has a softmodded wii to run it.

tl;dr
I make more money playing actual Brawl.
 

~ Gheb ~

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Even if you manage to "learn" it, it's still physically so exhausting that you're better off just doing the regular CG.

:059:
 

Conviction

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It would be nice if it worked on Fox's bad MUs *cough*Pika&Sheik*cough* so you could scare them out of the scene. XD

EDIT: @Gheb Some one doesn't want to get infinited lol
 

Dark 3nergy

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you should try this on other characters not just DDD. The whole cast pivot grabbing out of a spot dodge would be interesting...but would it be useful to anyone else tho?
 

GeneralWoodman

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lol i do this input to boost pivot grab while im dash dancing with jigglypuff all the time.
i just tried it with d3 and i have no trouble doing this at all xd
 
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I still can't get this. FML, this is hard. I need a fight stick... Keeps on doing one of the following things:
-Doing the backdash, going into a dashdance, and dashgrabbing forward-not what is wanted
-Instead of buffering a pivot grab, rolling forward
The rest are buffering errors where I know what goes wrong, but those two, ESPECIALLY THE ROLL... why?

EDIT: Now I'm getting the pivot grab but snake is sliding too far...
 

Luxor

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Alright guys, I finally got HBC back on my Wii and did some frame advance testing on this, with interesting results.

First, as far as what characters it works on: Not many. The only ones I tested that worked for sure were Snake and Wolf, but I'm inclined to believe that all the characters listed in the video description are infinite-able. I tested MK specifically (just to make sure, you understand) and it didn't work on him. Unfortunately.

Next, the input map:

Code:
Frame_Time (milliseconds) __ Description

Grab opponent
00:00 input Dthrow
37:38 input back
38:36 input down
39:35 input back
40:33 input forward+grab
47:21 D3's IASA
53:11 regrab
The buffered inputs don't have to be input on those exact frames; anything frames 37-46 will work.

After I figured out how to work it and established who it worked on, I had to make sure it was a true infinite. I only tested on Snake, and I assume it will hold true for other characters as well.
On Snake, you can Dthrow--> Pivot Grab 5x + regrab. If you just do it that way, it's not an infinite but it does 32% and puts allows you to chaingrab across the stage immediately afterwards.

You can regrab as long as you have less than or equal to 5 Dthrows in the stale moves queue. With a 9-move long registry, this should mean that Dthrow-->Pummel-->Pivot Grab is a true infinite. I tested it, and it works just like the standing infinite on Mario/Samus/Luigi/DK, and is a true infinite on Snake at least.

If it's worth learning an easy infinite on random unimportant characters, I'd say it's worth it to learn a more difficult infinite on the second best character in the game.

Oh, a few notes about performing it. Don't just tap back, go to neutral, tap back again. For some reason, you NEED to input the down rotation as well. The complete input is back-->down-->back-->forward+Z.

Now what I want to see is what other characters gain new chaingrabs out of this.

EDIT: 1400th post w00t
 

Dark 3nergy

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Oh, a few notes about performing it. Don't just tap back, go to neutral, tap back again. For some reason, you NEED to input the down rotation as well. The complete input is back-->down-->back-->forward+Z.
so you have to input a quarter circle down after inputting 4??

4 meaning location of the analog stick using this number systemVVVV

7 8 9
4 5 6
1 2 3

Number notation, often used for combos in Guilty Gear, Melty Blood, BlazBlue, and other anime fighting games. 5 refers to neutral, other joystick positions refer to you facing right.
 

Dark 3nergy

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is it possible to make this sequence shorter?

theres a couple of other things you should test as well;

1. slopes, dthrow>BRDA
2. characters falling off the the ledge
3. pummel releases to BRDA, and for wario try dash grab and air releasing to BRDA
 

Luxor

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You could just smack 4-2-4-6, but rotating it is probably faster. IDK what works in-game, tbh. I only managed to do it once or twice outside of frame advance :c
 

Dark 3nergy

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other characters you could try it on


mmm

olimar dthrow?
falco dthrow
pikachus fthrow/dthrow
IC
peach dthrow
bowser pummel release
warios dthrow?
snake pummel release
kirby dthrow/fthrow
marth pummel release? fthrow?
 

Dark 3nergy

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try yoshi as well for wario and definitely bowser/snakes pummel breaks

if you get a pummel break, they should break right next to you allowing for this BRDA to work

to clarify what pummel breaking is; its when you get the dangly feet animation this gimmick only works tho if the grabber in question is taller then the grabbe. For DDD most of the time he has to dash grab to get this to work...for other characters tho esp bowser/snake there should be plenty they can pummel break because of their sheer height.

Look at snakes regular standing grab



its possible he could pummel break to BRDA since his normal grab does this to EVERYONE


^^^ reg. grab his feet are touching the floor

^^^ dangly feet you can pummel break when they're in this animation


For falco/pikachu if you need to scale down as to who you wanna test its ez just check out their CG threads and look at the distance needed to regrab and that should help you a bunch


falcos
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=285572

pikachus
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225783
 

Flayl

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I wonder if this make's Bowser's pivot out of release easier. Weird how you have to input down, I never would have figured that.
 

Dark 3nergy

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i think it would benefit bowser alot...but think of wario tho..hes prolly gonna get infinited by alot more characters espeically if he gets grabbed off the ledge =\ you can just air release him....and like just about everyone in SSBB has a big long disjointed pivot grab


this'll def help yoshi because he can spot dodge and pivot grab in the same spot
 
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