CG --> Buffered Usmash on...

SuSa · Nov 17, 2010

Luxor's work. I always see new things pop up in threads and nobody sees them for months.... so I'm making a thread.

All data AFAIK collected by Luxor.

luxor said:
Usmash is guaranteed on a few characters (frame advance is in that state where every frame advance counts as a grab, so I can't test atm; I'm about half done.) Dash RAR Bair might work on taller characters. As far as advantage, it differs for every character (+19 on Snake, +20 on Lucario, etc. ) and whether that character gets Usmashed depends not only on advantage but also the distance they slide and how fast Usmash covers distance. I'll get all the data, though. Dthrow to Usmash may not work in a whole lot of matchups, but it's an easy guaranteed kill where it does work.

Results of Dthrow Buffered Dash Usmash. Yes means Usmash away, No means they slide out of range or powershield it. Only tested chaingrabbable characters, doesn't work on the Unchainable Twelve.

YES USMASH
Lucario
Bowser
Link
Ganon
OURSELVES
Charizard
Ivysaur
Ness
Sonic

SuSa's thoughts on what this means:

Ganon, Charizard, and Ivysaur just fail when they get grabbed. (Snake ***** them with dthrow too!)

Lucario just became even more in DDD's favor.

DDD dittos got even gayer.

Sonic got tolerable.

Flayl · Nov 17, 2010

You might want to actually make a descriptive title then.

SuSa · Nov 17, 2010

Because you guys have so many active threads.

SuSa · Nov 17, 2010

Hope the title is descriptive enough.

Flayl · Nov 17, 2010

It's stupid, that's what it is >:[

Dark 3nergy · Nov 17, 2010

rename thread title to

"Lucario MU now 65:35 DDD favor, ggs guys we're your first hard counter!!1!1"

#HBC | ZoZo · Nov 17, 2010

I gave this thread a view and reply because of the title

SuSa · Nov 17, 2010

That was the idea.

Z1GMA · Nov 17, 2010

Title made me enter.
Facts/data made me stay.

Nike. · Nov 17, 2010

FUUUU got me good lol

Luxor · Nov 17, 2010

wahahahahahaa

Conviction · Nov 17, 2010

Title worked because I thought I was gonna to see flames and then a lock but in the back of my mind I expected something good in here.

So the title works wonders lol.

MikeKirby · Nov 17, 2010

I came in here looking for what the title said... Now I expect to get what the title said!

Luxor · Nov 17, 2010

Input is forward-->X/Y jump-->C-stick up btw.

SuSa · Nov 17, 2010

Why jump-cancel the c-stick input? O_o

Mikachiru · Nov 17, 2010

Thanks, Susa. I thought this thread was gonna be legit. Lies, lies everywhere...

culexus・wau · Nov 17, 2010

I can only assume that jump canceling it makes it faster.

Hate you penguins besides Junk/Beef/Atomsk/Dark

Zucco · Nov 18, 2010

Wheres my ****ing hentai?!

I hate this game.......so much gay ****. Things like this are like a punch in the face.

I wish I was good with mk.

#HBC | Red Ryu · Nov 18, 2010

I hope this finally make some Lucario's play the match-up right and play as gay as possible once they have the lead.

Luxor · Nov 18, 2010

You can't just buffer the Usmash with the Cstick, so it only works if you buffer a jump too. Trust me here.

satowolf · Nov 18, 2010

Where teh free hentai at?! :mad088:

but then again, considering that i somewhat second D3, i find this helpful.

Luxor · Nov 18, 2010

Alright, just did a quick test on Lucario. Usmash is guaranteed if you have 5 or fewer Dthrows in the stale moves registry. 6 or more and Lucario will powershield it.

#HBC | Red Ryu · Nov 18, 2010

Does Snake does slide too far to be hit by this?

Also is the timing pretty easy to land on each of the characters?

MythTrainerInfinity · Nov 18, 2010

This really won't change much, people are overreacting. D3 has the slowest air speed, we can jump circles around him.

USmash won't kill us until what? 120%+?

What is a Lucario doing too close to King Dedede at that point anyway?

If you do it early you might stale it. Not to mention you'll send us upwards, so yeah no BAir gimps, hooray!

Where are your board's Grab/throw framedata? I'm looking through the old database and I don't see it...

Luxor · Nov 18, 2010

@Red Ryu: There's not really a "timing" like ICs infinites, it's just timing as in buffering- same on everybody; just do the inputs in the last 10 frames of Dthrow. Snake can always powershield the hit, since he lands a frame earlier than Lucario.

@MTI (lol typoed MIT) Grab frame 6, dash grab frame 7, pivot grab frame 9 IIRC. And I think you're underestimating Usmash juuuuust a bit.

#HBC | Red Ryu · Nov 18, 2010

So if DDD is off by a single frame Lucario can PS it?

Luxor · Nov 18, 2010

Yes, but the whole idea is to buffer it so it's frame-perfect. If he tries to time it then
A. He's doing it wrong.
B. You can PS it.

So, if he does it RIGHT you've got no hope and might as well just go MK vs. D3. Like you could've done before.

#HBC | Red Ryu · Nov 18, 2010

I might be misunderstanding how buffering truly works.

I'm guessing I was wrong and that buffering it simply mashing you next input so it happens as fast as possible when you can move.

I don't think this makes the match-up hopeless, maybe harder but not hopeless.

MythTrainerInfinity · Nov 18, 2010

Thanks, Luxor.

Just tested in training mode how long Lucario can survive an uncharged USmash from D3 in Training mode. I was able to DI it at the center of FD at 129%.

Figuring in freshness in actual Vs. mode and stuff I'd say about 123% is about when you know you'll kill us with an Up Smash. Wait, why am I helping you guys?

Luxor · Nov 18, 2010

Buffering is when, in the last ten frames of some action, you input another action. Try spotdodging and pressing A towards the end- even if you weren't finished with the spotdodge, the input is still accepted and you'll jab right afterwards. The key thing is that the buffered jab in this example happens as soon as it possibly can, with NO room for human error (assuming you buffered the jab correctly).

This Usmash thing is way easierto do than the infinite on Snake btw.

Vyse · Nov 18, 2010

I decided to change the thread title. Even though I don't know what the policy is on that kind of thread title :/

You can PM me if you want a justification between a title like "free hentai" vs "Banning of Hentai in XXXX" or something like that.

Cheerio.

EDIT: Even though admittedly, it did its job. lol.
EDIT2: I definitely came here on sense of duty. Totally.

#HBC | Red Ryu · Nov 18, 2010

Alright, well just gotta relearn when I die from King DDD now.

Luxor · Nov 18, 2010

You didn't see the other thread that my original post on Usmashing Lucario was in?

D3 has a technicaaaaaal infinite on Snake out of a grab- so it's not really situational, just hard.

SuSa · Nov 18, 2010

Vyse said:
I decided to change the thread title. Even though I don't know what the policy is on that kind of thread title :/

You can PM me if you want a justification between a title like "free hentai" vs "Banning of Hentai in XXXX" or something like that.

Cheerio.

EDIT: Even though admittedly, it did its job. lol.
EDIT2: I definitely came here on sense of duty. Totally.

**** that took staff a long time to change it.

It's fine you changed it. I was just hoping to get this some quick popularity. (Read: People actually view it and the information got around)

So the title did it's job, now I can change it to something relevant.

I have no reason to disbelieve you.

Dark 3nergy · Nov 18, 2010

Zucco said:
Wheres my ****ing hentai?!

I hate this game.......so much gay ****. Things like this are like a punch in the face.

I wish I was good with mk.

just use falco/mk/pika/oli/ic and your good imo

Red Ryu said:
I hope this finally make some Lucario's play the match-up right and play as gay as possible once they have the lead.

haha i already mentioned that the mu will be alot more like cat n mouse

MythTrainerInfinity said:
This really won't change much, people are overreacting. D3 has the slowest air speed, we can jump circles around him.

USmash won't kill us until what? 120%+?

What is a Lucario doing too close to King Dedede at that point anyway?

If you do it early you might stale it. Not to mention you'll send us upwards, so yeah no BAir gimps, hooray!

Where are your board's Grab/throw framedata? I'm looking through the old database and I don't see it...

we dont really have any frame data

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzsm5f3VmNE

go with this instead, and since when is a DDD going to be usmashing at all during the match...? i can think of only a very few situations where he'd do it

#HBC | Red Ryu · Nov 18, 2010

Dark 3nergy said:
haha i already mentioned that the mu will be alot more like cat n mouse

Run Lucario Run!

Dark 3nergy · Nov 18, 2010

or you could just talk to june bug cuz apparently hes got the MU secrets tattooed on the back of his head

#HBC | Red Ryu · Nov 18, 2010

I wish vids of him vs top DDD's got recorded. :<

Coney · Nov 18, 2010

they did

him v. atomsk is floating around somewhere, but i think it's only one game :<

despite being in the same region and playing each other often, we've never played in tourney

this'll help my chances though, since i'm criminally underexperienced against lucario

if he goes mk though i'm screwed

#HBC | Red Ryu · Nov 18, 2010

I've had trouble finding them in the past. *Searches* Oh they played in pools at APEX. Thank you Coney.

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