Meta Knight's New Match Up Thread: Wario

GO!

I don't know much about this match up, but I'd like to say something about his fart.

When Wario's fart is not fully charged, it can kill MK at very low percents. Most people know this. I feel it is a good idea to run away from Wario whenever his fart enters that stage, as to stall until the fart becomes weaker in knock back, as to lower the number of Wario's kill options.This also means that MK could be missing out on a kill if Wario is at high% while holding a strong fart. I don't know about you guys but I'd rather be safe than risk losing momentum.

I guess this is kind of obvious, but I never see anyone do it so I thought I'd just throw that out there.

How long does it take for Wario to fully charge his fart?

I think 2 minutes. His fart is most dangerous from 1:00 to 1:59 iirc.

1 minute 50 seconds for the full waft, IIRC. So from like 1 minute 10 seconds-1 minute 49 seconds, his fart is like super ****.

Uhm... control the stage with your disjointedness. Up air and tilts are really good in my experience. If you get a grab, look at your opponents controller and see how they mash. If they hit everything, then you get a free... anything.

I think stage control and stopping him from being able to retreat is really important. Wario loses a lot of options, I think, when he can't retreat.

I could be wrong, though.

Someone told me that you need to play campy in this match up. Idk if that's true.

Space the **** out of him. This is where fair>dtilt really comes in handy. Don't dair camp him. He beats it with super hard punishes. When you think you're winning, you're not. Fart is an even better move than you think it is. When he's offstage on his bike, throw out a bunch of nairs.

And and Utilt occasionally.

I wish I had more vids of S!C, the best german wario... He does crazy **** with bike tires which not only make approaching a very difficult task, but more often than not will lead to 40%+ punishes, and death anywhere starting around 50%.

If you can, try to keep the wario away from his bike. It's one of his most important tools in the matchup (especially when broken!), between tires, bike recovery, and flat out running your *** over and looking cool while doing it. If you can get wario offstage, and his bike isn't near him, he has two options: UpB, and Fart. If he farts, he has to wait quite a while before using his best kill move again, and often he just doesn't have the fart to use. If he upBs, he's easily edgehogged and/or gimped. Good warios do not lose their bikes often, but if you see an opportunity to keep him away from it, DO IT. And steal his tires. I am scared ****less of tires since playing against S!C. I should probably ask him for input on this...

Don't stale your kill moves. Seriously, Wario lives FOREVER and kills you retardedly early; you don't want to make this worse by ensuring that your dsmash is so stale that it makes last year's halloween candy look attractive. You really shouldn't let it come to this point, but it can and probably will occasionally happen that you barely kill him at 200% with an Nair or something, and then he comes back and ***** you at 50 with a half waft. I'm with Kaffei on this one-run the **** away from it. Fully charged, it does a lot of damage, but it won't kill you until like 80+, later with good DI. BTW, careful blocking a full waft if your shield isn't fresh, that thing does 42 damage with good shieldstun and can easily break shields.

Counterpicks... I honestly really like FD in this matchup, but there's probably better. If norfair is legal, ban the **** out of it; wario will MURDER YOU on Norfair, just like he'll murder pretty much every character in the game (that stage is SO ****ING STUPID FOR WARIO). Otherwise... I dunno, I kinda feel like Brinstar isn't that great for us in this matchup. We want the static terrain to wall him better... FD, SV, YI? Don't like battlefield for similar reasons as Brinstar. Frigate and Delfino are probably good choices as well.

EDIT: In case anyone wants a ratio, I honestly think this matchup is 60-40, maybe better, in our favor. Wario is powerful stuff, but we can wall him out fairly effectively. Like, really effectively. Good spacing, and he simply will not get in well.

BPC, if you use a SH fair and Wario is directly in front of you, he could just jump above it and punish the ending lag ...
Walling is pretty hard in this MU, because Wario is able to get through the wall.


Learn to gimp Wario!

Some Warios use DACUS a lot.
You can DI it (DI towards Wario) and then you get in a good position directly behind Wario, when he ended his DACUS (the last hit won´t get you then).

FTilt also works pretty well in this MU.

Rushing in sometimes with an offensive running aerial works for me, because Warios can´t wall that well.

i dont see norfair being that great for wario vs mk. lol he just gets timed out

Orion* said:

i dont see norfair being that great for wario vs mk. lol he just gets timed out

Click to expand...

Really? Doesn't losing the lead once just spell instant doom for you because he's so much more mobile on that stage?

No.
Think about it. Meta Knight has 6 jumps, a long with a glide and Tornado that grants him with incredible aerial mobility and defense. Not only this, but Meta Knight has the fastest aerials in the game. Meta Knight also has an Up B that grants him superior vertical movement at superior speed. Wario's aerial mobility is superior to that of Meta Knight, yes. However, we have the advantage in terms of regaining a lost lead. If Wario loses the lead, what is he going to do? Chasing Meta Knight with pitiful ranged moves is not so rewarding, in my eyes.

Though, this is just theorycraft. Norfair is dumb and anything can happen. In addition, I believe that the player who knows this stage best also has a great advantage.

That is if MK has the lead. If Wario had the lead, I for one would not want to have to chase him all over Norfair.

Wario can outrun MK, real talk.

SIMPLE STRAT FOR DUMMIEZ

stand at the bottom and camp uairs and ****, LOL @ wario the whole time
if he airdodges past your wall run off and falling uair then go to some gay *** platform

stand there. if he jumps above you fall back down to the bottom. if he goes for uair jump to the other platform, nado, dair or grab the ledge, you need to be "half smart" and just pick the right option depending on the situation.

repeat until

A: wario runs into your **** / or time ruuns out
B: wario actually pulls out a bike
C: lava comes

if C happens, just stay below wario, when youre limited to one platform and just nado/uair him for landing.
then go to step A

if B happens

theres a lot more variables but you will kinda have to judge if you want to zone the bike or not. depending on where it is, if he has fart, ect.

if its on the bottom i would
the ones in the middle just stay at the bottom and when he goes to break it just uair -> shuttle him for it
if its on the top go to the middle one as long as you are under him its a punish for hitting it

treat Wario like Kirby and box him out
if wario gets in he gets in and he hits really hard.
only time you should dash attack is if your certain u can punish landing lag
always keep your distance
if u tornado and wario is above you retreat your tornado immediately so his d-air doesn't hit your hurtbox
learn2land. if you're above wario and you're running out of jumps dont panic. downb is really good here
dont play into Wario's jump around air dodging game. he's baiting you to attack. just let him come to you.
if you're behind in %'s or stock the best way to approach wario is from below.
on a flat surface dont rush in. poke with f-tilt or d-tilt. once wario's shield starts dwindling go for the nado
wario's love to spotdodge into f-smash or fart
when recovering be careful if wario has a fart. dont mindlessly glide to the bottom and then come up towards the ledge.
pay attention to the timer. when wario's want to fart you can literally "feel it". wario's start doing a lot of sidestepping or empty jumps into air dodge trying to bait a whiff. PAY ATTENTION.
gimping him =

@ Kaffei: MK is slow in the air, thats the problem.

I don´t think you can up B wario out of dair, when you are in it.
If you mean grounded SL.
He can just airdodge through your Up B and then punish you very hard for using it.


DI is reaaallly important in that MU!
Espeacally at low%!
Wario can combo you really hard, if you don´t DI Nair etc.!

I know he is slow in the air. Meta Knight has the 5th worst aerial mobility in the game.
What I mean by using Up B is to travel up the platforms as fast as possible using cancelled loops.
But yes, you are right. Wario can punish very hard. uasdfgausofad fart

Walking is very important. walk and see what he does. Does he jump away, run away, try to short hop dair you, jump directly above you? try and see. space dtilts and fairs very well, wario get's boxed in very easy so don't use sloppy spacing. don't chase too hard in the air, his airdodges are one of the best, so bait the first one, then uair, nado, whatever your little heart desires. (the two i listed are recommended though, nair if he's at kill percent.)

wario mains are very predictable with their wafts. just walk in shield and he'll probably use it, seriously. if you chase them in the air and they airdodge you, they might waft you after. dont tornado onto the level from the ledge, wario ftilt goes through it and can kill around 110 I believe. never use grounded up b's vs wario, period.

if you don't get hit by waft, you should win.

don't use 3 or 9 o'clock DI vs his fsmash please.

also i didn't read any responses, so if my post sounds similar, it's just coincidence.

i wouldnt say NEVER on grounded upBs but MAKE them hit if you do, missing with them is insta death LOOOOOOL

saying to not use our invincible shining god armor kai move is depressing

more risk than reward, good DI wario will live until like 150 from it i think haha.

Shuttle Loop beats everything Wario can land with.

1. Find landing.
2. Shuttle loop.
3. Yay.

No seriously, don't say it's more risk than reward if it's guaranteed.

If you think grounded SL is a good option, I'm questioning the skill level of the Wario players you are playing. That's like saying grounded shuttle loop is a good option vs Diddy. It isn't, but it has its uses. But the fact it has much greater risk than reward (Wario being heavy so having good DI) you likely won't kill with it until 150%. Why grounded shuttle loop when hes at 80%, and risk him getting power shield uair and killing you at 70-90%? Your SL wouldn't kill him anyways.

See what I mean? Obviously there are "NEVER DO THIS, BUT THERE ARE SCENARIOS" for those things, and grounded SL is one of those vs Wario. If you consistently think it's a good idea, I'm again questioning the skill level of warios you are playing. I've played Malcolm, Hunger, and Judge's wario if you ask who I have played.

Lord Chair said:

Shuttle Loop beats everything Wario can land with.

1. Find landing.
2. Shuttle loop.
3. Yay.

No seriously, don't say it's more risk than reward if it's guaranteed.

Click to expand...

Umm....
If you miss this grounded shuttle loop, wario's will uair you for it, everytime. So I don't think this is very useful vs Wario.
Last time I played Krystedez, he gave me the clap for every missed shuttle loop when I tried to do this.
._.

dont miss ._.

although im starting to prefer dash attack if i get a hard read on the landing, being grounded is important

@jem

hunger spent like an hour ranting to me about how gay metaknights upB is >_>

but yeah moreso than clap, airdodge -> fart is HILARIOUS XDDD

The fact is no MK is perfect. Fiction has beaten M2K in a singles set before (albeit it was awhile ago) MK's WILL mess up timing it perfectly, and if they're at 80% or more and its a fresh uair, they can kiss their stock goodbye. If people seriously think there is more reward than risk, I am not too sure what to say since it won't even kill Wario until around 150% and if you mess up it risks you dying really early. (Usually want/should live to around 110-120 vs Wario)

A good MK never even tries to hit their opponent lol.

Now that's just ridiculous -LzR-.

Good MKs only hit their opponent once and then PPlank the rest of the match

A good MK kills his enemies character, just by looking at his enemy IRL.

He's just saying that it's a move that's easily punished when missed.
:/
So be careful with your shuttle loop, also watch out for da poo poo.

You guys can troll all you want. I doubt trolling helps get you better, which is supposed to be the purpose of this board. I only come to here to try to absorb more knowledge and try to help players back, especially with the lacking of pro players posting here. (Except sometimes Dojo, sometimes Larry trolling, and sometimes Seibrik) Orion is pretty good too, but besides that no one really posts. So if you don't want to listen to my advice, that's fine, but I'm telling you I know a lot about this game. I already said everything has that "DON'T DO IT EVER" but when you just KNOW policy, it's okay. the KNOW policy is unexplainable and only known by the player in that instant. I guarantee you though if you consistently try to shuttle loop Wario, you'll lose a stock a lot sooner than you wanted to at some point, and that one moment could cost you the match or set.

^ agreed keep trolling/ jokes to a minimum on the MU threads the only good mks (based on placings etc.) that are regularly on this board is orion and jem.

So... don't upB much/at all. K...

EDIT: Oh yeah and Staco is pro... don't forget about him.

Jem, sure you aren´t able to beat Wario by just using Up B.
I also don´t use it a lot in this MU.
It´s just an option, which works well in specific situations.
Up B also isn´t just a killmove. It can keep the enemy away from you, if he comes to close; deals decent damage and gets your enemy in a bad position (above you).
It´s still situational because as you said before it can be punished very very hard, if you miss it/if the enemy dodges it.

I think we need some Wario's in here.
WAAAAHH!
They'd tell us how to **** them.
<_<

For the record, on brinstar today vs Ally's Wario, M2K whiffed a grounded up b, and nearly got wafted which would have ended the match, but Ally messed up.

I instantly thought to post here.

If you watch the clock, its pretty easy to notice when they start fishing for it. :O