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Impossibly hard/Infinitely useful Platform AT

Fox Is Openly Deceptive

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(Looks at title), no that's not the name of it. In fact, technically it isn't even new, even though the vast majority of you will not have known about it and the few that did probably didn't know how to do it...... until now.

I should warn you about it before you read on. It really is impossibly hard to perform. But, if you are comfortable with your level of tech skill and want to put it to good use in Brawl, then this is the thread for you.

First up, here's the year old asian vid that shows a few applications of it. Watch the whole thing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXXIyk_Fb6M


As you will have seen, this tech allows you to do anything out of a dash, anything out of a shield and anything out of a shield cancellable move. With one big restriction. You have to be on a platform.

I won't put it off any longer. Here's how it's done.

To perform anything out of a dash, start on a platform, dash in any direction, hit shield, instantly drop through the platform out of shield then instantly cancel the platform drop through with any attack. If you aren't blown away with how impossible this is, then you mustn't understand. I'll break it up a bit.
The instant OoS platform drop is quite hard to perform. Normally, when people think about dropping through a platform OoS they think about holding shield then moving the analog stick downwards at a medium pace to avoid a spotdodge or just angling the shield down. But this has to be done instantly which means you don't have time to do it at a medium pace, but if you rush it, won't you just spotdodge? Not necessarily. In order to do it instantly, I find it works easier if I shield then instantly move the joystick diagonally down/forwards and not all the way. This is the best way I've found to do it so fast that you don't even see the shield.
Then if you want to cancel the drop through, you need to instantly use any attack. But by instantly, I'm talking the very next frame instantly. If you can't get the shield drop through consistently, you'll almost always use the move too late and simply use an aerial (say if you were trying to use a tilt for example).

With the above information, the rest of it is quite intuitive. Any option OoS? Just minus the dash part. Used after any shield cancellable move? You cancel it with the shield and the rest is the same.


Obviously this is going to be more helpful for some characters than it is for others, but everyone will benefit to some degree. I'd imagine that Yoshi would benefit from getting some better OoS options, let alone all of them and then some. Characters with good dash speeds will benefit from being able to cancel that dash with any move (think Sonic F-smash). Characters with good tilts will enjoy being able to use them OoS and out of a dash (MK and Snake). And then there are all the other shield cancellable moves that belong to other characters.


"I can't do it. It's too hard." I know.
"Did you do it? Is this really the way to perform it?" Yes I did do it and this is definitely the way to perform everything in that vid.
"It's too hard for people to actually use so no one's going to bother to learn it or benefit from it." This is unfortunately what I'm expecting, but I figured, you never know, I would be quite pleased if someone out there was able to master it and **** with it.
"Does this work for (insert character)" I'm presuming it works for everyone. I tested it on a few characters to see what they could do with it. There's no reason that I can think of that would make it impossible for any characters.

Thanks for reading.

I may explain how to perform it again in different words later on if there is still some misunderstanding, but the odds are, you're doing it right, it's just that hard. Try breaking it up and performing each part separately before you try the whole thing.


Special thanks goes to Tedeth for helping me test it. Thanks goes to Sasook for bringing the vid to my attention. Thanks goes to e_alert for discussing various theories with me.




Edit: Just for the record, there seems to be a bit of confusion about what I was presenting. This thread is not just presenting the Dash to any move application, it's presenting the shield to anything AT on platforms and Dash to anything is just one application of it. There are so many things that can be done from the root AT of shield to anything such as the items applications seen in the vid and the shield cancellable moves to anything seen in the vid. If I was just presenting the dash to anything, I could understand why some people would think that because most platforms are too short, that it's not going to be very applicable, but this view is a bit narrow minded if you look at all the things that can be done in the vid (with dash to anything just being one of them). But as for the Dash to anything application, some legal stages where this may be useful are Yoshi's Island brawl, Delfino Plaza, possibly Frigate, Halberd, 2nd transformation of Castle Siege, possibly Smashville just because combining it with platform cancelling would be the ****, some transformations of PictoChat and some platforms on RC.
So when I explained how to do the Dash to anything, I wasn't just explaining that, I was using it as an example to explain the root AT to everything in that vid.
 

Veel

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Fun read. I have known about the individual mechanics for a long time but never really thought to put them together for those applications. Thanks for a taking a couple minutes to post this and have fun getting bashed by random people for posting old knowledge that isn't common.
 

Fox Is Openly Deceptive

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and have fun getting bashed by random people for posting old knowledge that isn't common.
Putting aside its technicality for the moment, it's quite a significant discovery that allows many actions to be performed that have been thought to be impossible. I would go as far as saying that this is on par with platform restricted wavedashing. Why on earth would anyone want to post negatively about combining 'old' knowledge in a new and ingenious way? Isn't this what some people have been waiting for? A big break through in Brawl that allows this sort of thing to be done?
 

-LzR-

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Incredible, pure amazing. I have too much free time available and if I really put this into practice, I just may get consistent results. If it can be done it's not impossible. Thanks again for this read I will see just how impossible it is, but it just might make my MK even scarier on platforms.
 

Fox Is Openly Deceptive

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@-LzR-: You are most welcome. Good luck with it, and I mean that in the best possible way, I really hope you can make it work consistently. You've already made my time worth while, so thank you too. Let me know how it goes.
 

-LzR-

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So far I am starting with simply doing the platform drop out of shield. I get it like 1/4 correctly so far. After I master that I can move onto dashing and after that to actually canceling it.

EDIT: Oh man this is hard! Well I just can't give up yet. =/
 
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Not gonna bother. It's ridiculously hard, and MK's tilts are so huge that there are almost no platforms that you can drop through that are long enough to make this technique worthwhile (and his OOS game is amazing anyways). Can anyone think of any? :laugh:

It's not that useful simply because so many platforms are small. If you have a ****ty OOS game, then I definitely recommend it... Can Yoshi do this?
 

-LzR-

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You won't want a new option because you already have options? Think of stuff like retreating dash fsmash for MK. It seems nice, just too **** hard!
 

Life

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Who says Brawl has no techskill?

I saw the video before but I'm glad somebody figured it out.

Anyway, biggest benefit from this probably goes to Sonic, since canceling both types of spindash requires a shield. Yoshi probably doesn't mind either, having a crappy shield for no good reason. Gotta think applications here.
 

-LzR-

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I loved the Sonic part of the video. It looks insanely useful to him. And I wouldn't be the first time Sonic's surprise us.
 

Life

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LzR, we already knew about the platform dropthrough OOS. What excites me is the dropthrough cancel. Like starting spindash away from opponent -> shield cancel+dropthrough -> dropthrough cancel -> fsmash towards opponent. Or ASC into something, perhaps a true combo under certain conditions. /****
 

AMKalmar

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Doesn't seem that much more difficult than a bounced zap jump. I'll try it some time... like after exams... in a month. -_-
 

TheTantalus

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I'm trying to do it, but it is far too difficult atm. This would be great for MK, as it's effectively a running dsmash, but only on fall through platforms.
 

Blacknight99923

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I am pretty sure you do not have to dash to get this(such as samus canceling her charge beam to D tilt), the oos options applications alone (which requires no movement so characters like marth with long dash applications can still find practically in it.

I think oos will become the most commonly applied application simply because dashing on something like a BF platform (is if fairly small) can be a problem for characters who don't have short animations.


I'll work on this tech today
 

Fox Is Openly Deceptive

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Just for the record, there seems to be a bit of confusion about what I was presenting. This thread is not just presenting the Dash to any move application, it's presenting the shield to anything AT on platforms and Dash to anything is just one application of it. There are so many things that can be done from the root AT of shield to anything such as the items applications seen in the vid and the shield cancellable moves to anything seen in the vid. If I was just presenting the dash to anything, I could understand why some people would think that because most platforms are too short, that it's not going to be very applicable, but this view is a bit narrow minded if you look at all the things that can be done in the vid (with dash to anything just being one of them). But as for the Dash to anything application, some legal stages where this may be useful are Yoshi's Island brawl, Delfino Plaza, possibly Frigate, Halberd, 2nd transformation of Castle Siege, possibly Smashville just because combining it with platform cancelling would be the ****, some transformations of PictoChat and some platforms on RC.
So when I explained how to do the Dash to anything, I wasn't just explaining that, I was using it as an example to explain the root AT to everything in that vid.

So that should answer some of the previous posts. I can only recommend that people just read the whole OP carefully. It's not too long compared to what I usually type.


For anyone who is testing stuff or practicing it, any updates on how things are going will be most appreciated, especially if you're working on other characters who aren't in the vid. If you find any cool applications with them or you can assess how much this tech would benefit that character over others, than this information will help everyone so please feel free to post it. Also, a frame by frame explanation wouldn't hurt if any of you smash researchers would like to help, as I have no access to frame hacks or anything like that and I do my testing the 'old fashioned' way.
 
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Good job Fox! I'm gonna check how hard this is when I get to my Wii later today, but for now, good thread.
 

-LzR-

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Just the dropping part is hard.
Just try to do an utilt out of a dash, I challenge you, you gotta move the stick down then up in like half a frame. Good luck.
 

stingers

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dropping out of shield on a platform = just roll your stick counter clockwise from 5 to 2 (numpad notation)
 
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If I actually had a brawl game next to me, I would try this out. Considering I do not, I can only speculate. If what you are saying is right, then this merely ignores shield drop frames and will go straight into an attack. However, I question if this could be performed faster than a 7 frame shield drop.

It would be interesting to see if you could drop through into an immediate shield, then repeat. You would be rapidly putting up and down a shield, hopefully, faster than a normal shield -> shield drop -> shield -> repeat.
 

stingers

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no I meant 5 to 2. when you're shielding your stick should be neutral or else you'll buffer a roll. and you can't really go all the way to 4 or you'll roll lol. its kinda difficult. its more like 5->3.5->3->2. gamecube isnt octogate after all you can move in tons of directions

the reason this works is because platforms have an actual thickness. When you're falling through one, your feet (how landing is determined) are still inside of the platform for a little bit. When you do an action, the game is constantly checking to see if you're landing to know when to put you in the landing animation, and since you can't actually land "inside" of a platform, it pushes you off to the top.
 

Exdeath

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If I actually had a brawl game next to me, I would try this out. Considering I do not, I can only speculate. If what you are saying is right, then this merely ignores shield drop frames and will go straight into an attack. However, I question if this could be performed faster than a 7 frame shield drop.

It would be interesting to see if you could drop through into an immediate shield, then repeat. You would be rapidly putting up and down a shield, hopefully, faster than a normal shield -> shield drop -> shield -> repeat.
This can indeed be performed from a shield drop, however I believe that it takes 5 or 6 frames (IIRC -- 3 for fall-through and 2 or 3 for what is essentially a platform cancel) until you can perform an action. With that said, sometimes just falling through shield is better than platform canceling as well. In Meta Knight's case, his fastest OoS option is fall-through>Uair which has a hit box out on frame 5 (3 frames for the fall-through+1 frame of start-up lag).

As far as performing this goes, it's as Stinger said. You want to move the control stick far enough to the side to not roll and then move downward. This will cause the character model to register as being below the platform, which performing an action should then re-register the character model as landing on the platform (causing landing lag, but essentially canceling out the shield animation).

What's funny about this to me is that I was just talking with Hilt ~a month or so ago about using fall-through for faster/better/more OoS options.
 

Spelt

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lol... this is what adhd was referring to when he said japan already figured out how to do anything out of a dash ... like a year ago
 

-LzR-

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This will be very useful for MK as he can Shield drop platfrom fall uair. It can done out of a dash and is unpunishable.
 

Exdeath

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This will be very useful for MK as he can Shield drop platfrom fall uair. It can done out of a dash and is unpunishable.
Meta Knight's dash has enough start-up that he can't take much advantage of it. Certainly not as much as Yoshi.
 

-LzR-

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Well anyways, I am able to perform this out of a dash with the shield appearing only for a split second. The hardest part is timing the move you want to cancel with it.

EDIT: I can now do it almost instantly while dashing with 1/3 chance of success. The only part I miss is timing the attack, I always end up buffering and aerial.

I am soooo close! I gotta practice more and I may just learn it. Gotta stop for today since my fingers are cramped after 2 hours of practicing it... >_>
 

GimR

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looks interesting but extremely difficult, I will mess with it
 

Laem

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i just realized you can use this to infinitely jab lock some1 on a platform (run past reverse jab)
yayuhz
 

-LzR-

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Yeah, except reverse jabbing is so damn hard. The input has to be so fast that I guess doing a reverse jab is impossible.
 
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