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Meta Knight's New Match Up Thread: Pikachu

ぱみゅ

ぱみゅ

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Well, MU discussion was a bit dead, so I'll be re-starting it (P4, sorry for no ask for permission first, but these threads are needed)
So let's start straight ahead:



GO!
 
Kaffei

Kaffei

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ok let's see...
all i know is that he has the CG from like 1x% to 4x% to a nair or something.
he has a QAC lock or something too

idk -.-
 
Bloodcross

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55:45 Metaknight

Pikachu has alot of tools to keep up with MK plus a 0% - 52% CG (that's 7 dthrows iirc). Honestly, this matchup would be dead even if we couldn't dair camp, and dair camping is very effective when we have the lead.


To punish Dair camping, Pikachu will probably either double jump Uair or predict our jump/Dair (to beat Uair) and Thunder. But that's it. Using our Nado/Cape, it's almost impossible for Pikachu to punish our landing.


Dsmash, Fsmash, Thunder, and Tjolt from the top beats Nado. Pretty sure Fair from above beats Nado sometimes as well (when Pika is dead-center above iirc).


U-smash thunder will kill MK at 100%, and U-tilt thunder at 110%.


Our Ftilt and Dtilt snuffs out any ground approach
But Pikachu's short hop Dair or Tjolt approach beats out Ftilt/Dtilt
BUT GSL beats out SH Dair + Tjolt approach
BUT Pikachu can run up and shield the GSL we can grab Pika's shield approach (MK grab range > Pika grab range as well)
BUT Pika SH Dair beats MK Grab.


All Guesswork :/
 
Exdeath

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Pikachu's Neutral B is actually decent at safely pressuring Meta Knight's landing. Don't underestimate Fair's range; I've been hit with some pretty dumb spacing from a Pikachu semi-randomly throwing out a Fair.
 
ぱみゅ

ぱみゅ

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Jolts pressures amazingly good on both plain terrain and irregular terrain from above (platforms mostly). They also pressures MK on platforms. That's disgusting....

Glide is a really useful approach (and GSL helps scaping some pressure). Just don't get predictable, Pikachu has a lot of tools (QA and mere mobility, mostly).

Tornado sucks for this MU, Pikachu can do a lot of stuff to snap you out of it, or punish your landing.

If you're stuck in a CG, Shottle Loop, it's like the best move to try in that situation (not completly sure about that, tho).

That's all I have right now... I'll think of more later.
 
-LzR-

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During a CG I would use uair as it's the fastest move to come out.

Oh and the local Pika player cannot CG my MK, he doesn't know about it =/
Actually, I didn't know about it either.
Pika's shield is crazy, not like Diddy, but sort of.

I get punished a lot for tornado in this MU. Most of the time Pika just pops out of it and nairs or dairs me out of it...

Jolts are annoying for MK as he lacks a reliable way to cancel them so you have to PS them which leaves less room for error or jump which limits your options a bit.

Learn to DI out of dsmash (easy) and then tech it (sort of easy) or Pika will grab or tech chase you out of it for something nice.

Hmm... Don't gimp him unless you are sure about it as it's so hard against Pika, his recovery is so versatile and long.

Don't be dumb and get hit by thunder, DI the correct way. Watch out for thunder if you are gliding to the ledge, stop the glide immediately and wait and then use something like SideB or something.

I think fsmash outranges kinda everything we have.

That's what I know about this MU, haven't played it for a while, but will do this saturday so I will edit my post after that if I feel like adding something.
 
Exdeath

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-LzR- said:
During a CG I would use uair as it's the fastest move to come out.

Oh and the local Pika player cannot CG my MK, he doesn't know about it =/
Actually, I didn't know about it either.
Pika's shield is crazy, not like Diddy, but sort of.

I get punished a lot for tornado in this MU. Most of the time Pika just pops out of it and nairs or dairs me out of it...

Jolts are annoying for MK as he lacks a reliable way to cancel them so you have to PS them which leaves less room for error or jump which limits your options a bit.

Learn to DI out of dsmash (easy) and then tech it (sort of easy) or Pika will grab or tech chase you out of it for something nice.

Hmm... Don't gimp him unless you are sure about it as it's so hard against Pika, his recovery is so versatile and long.

Don't be dumb and get hit by thunder, DI the correct way. Watch out for thunder if you are gliding to the ledge, stop the glide immediately and wait and then use something like SideB or something.

I think fsmash outranges kinda everything we have.

That's what I know about this MU, haven't played it for a while, but will do this saturday so I will edit my post after that if I feel like adding something.
Click to expand...
Don't tech Dsmash; air dodge before you hit the ground and punish it. It's not too difficult to harass Pikachu's recovery; Neutral B covers all of Pikachu's recovery options.

When Pikachu uses retreating Down B, Meta Knight can Down B past Pikachu and then punish.

Glide attack out-spaces Fsmash. Learn to keep Pikachu in a space so that you can Neutral B him on reaction to his Neutral B.
 
ぱみゅ

ぱみゅ

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There's nobody to give USEFUL data?

You'll be surprised with pika's Dtilt range, it is really good, but Im not sure if it outranges ours, tho.

Glide attack is really useful, just space it well.

QA onstage is really annoying, Pika can use it just like Falco's Ilussion: just for scape pressure and keep spamming lol
 
-LzR-

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I beat a Pikachu 3-0 in WF's a few days back. Just time em out if you have a stock lead, they can't do **** about it. Also Pika's shield is crazy, don't ever attack at his fullshield.
 
Bloodcross

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I would think hard-reading MK's Dair Camping (jump) with Thunder would be cool lol.

Dair camping is still very effective but I wouldn't go as far as to state that Pikachu can't stop it at all
 
-LzR-

-LzR-

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So yeah you are telling me I shouldn't camp at all because Pikachu might be able to stop it someday?
 
-LzR-

-LzR-

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Well I guess our local Pikachu isn't good then, Badam case closed. Now tell me how good Pika's stop camping.
 
BlueZebra

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They can punish with DJ Uair to Nair if they get the timing down, or just predict our jump and thunder. Besides that they can always punish our landing.
 
-LzR-

-LzR-

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Did I say daircamping? When?

I was talking about better stuff like scrooging on the stages where possible or so on. And daircamping isn't just spamming dairs in the air as that is easy to punish.
 
Exdeath

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-LzR- said:
Did I say daircamping? When?

I was talking about better stuff like scrooging on the stages where possible or so on. And daircamping isn't just spamming dairs in the air as that is easy to punish.
Click to expand...
If you aren't familiar with Pikachu/evading Pikachu's projectiles, he is probably the most difficult character to stall around the ledge against. B grabs the stage and can hit you if you're gliding too closely to the stage and Down-B is excellent at making a temporary wall. Even immediately on the ledge, Pikachu has quite a few options. He has a smaller ledge time (on invincibility, required time to hold on to the ledge, etc.) and can give Meta Knight difficulty if MK isn't spacing properly.

In my experience, Meta Knight just wait it out when Pikachu is attempting to harass him on the ledge with non-projectiles. Pikachu will either leave an opening or let MK recover safely.
 
-LzR-

-LzR-

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Yeah I suck on the ledge against Pikachu as the dump projectiles come and MK's transcendent priority backfires us in that case.

Anyways, yeah, I guess I can't tell how the MU is really played since I have experience against one Pikachu, but I think he is quite decent for our countrys standards...
 
BlueZebra

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I figured to mention dair camping considering without it, the MU would be 50:50 if not very close. No jokes, Pikachu has a ton of great options against MK(and vice versa). The little rat is a monster.

/Also a pika main...>_>
 
-LzR-

-LzR-

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Yeah I know Pika has a lot of answers to MK's options. Thunder doesn't gimp us, but it forces us to pause our recovery or cancel our glide. I also hate how you have to PS jolts as you can't cancel them with our moves.

Anyways, smart dair camping when you have a considerable lead is powerful.

Now will someone good teach me how to play this MU well?
 
V1CE

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try not to glide back to the stage cause sometimes a pikachu will jump out and space thunder to where you get sweetspotted and die at 50 lolol... Also they sometimes thunder at the ledge so beware of jumping up and airdodging onto the stage from the ledge... Camp dair and nado but nado smart so you dont get grabbed or punished. Also **** pikas recovery... He cant take your jump with up b cause well ur mk so be a little dairing and nair his up b quacks or reverse shutleloop his side b or if you wanna be safer use nado.
 
Player-4

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Actually gliding back is really good against Pika lmao

You can Glide Attack him before he thunders or cancel it before you get hit by the pillar then you have all your jumps and other options from there
 
-LzR-

-LzR-

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Yeah, but it actually stops you for a second. That's like the closest a char can have to gimping MK. Be proud Pikas, be proud.
 
Sync.

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You can definitely outcamp Pikachu. Don't worry about gimping that demon rat dies early. Watch chain grabs and footstool out of them if he starts at percents lower than 5%. Remember when using out of shield options on his down air that he has two hit boxes and they're really dumb. SDI forward air up and dair him when you get out. Don't get hit by thunder. It's that simple.

Remember you can shuttle loop his side b so when he's recovering, if you read it right and near the ledge shuttle loop the **** out of the rat. Tilts are really good against Pikachu because you hard out range him... watch for forward smashes and forward smashes out of his IASA frames from down tilt.

DON'T IMMEDIATELY AIR DODGE WHEN YOU'RE ABOVE HIM TIME YOUR AIR DODGE.
 
AfroQT

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--THIS MESSAGE BROUGHT TO YOU BY ROYAL COMMANDER SEIBRIK--

Pikachu doesn't die very early assuming they have good DI, he has a very good momentum cancel. You can nair Pikachu's forward B clean, practice it a few times before you try it though.

~Afro, Servant of Royal Commander Seibrik
 
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