Matchup Discussion: Olimar

Olimar​

Topics to Discuss

• How do we win?
• What do we watch out for?
• Stages to BAN/CP?
• Tips/Tricks when fighting this character?
• Videos?
• MU classification?

For reference.

vato_break said:

reverse cape as in caping away from olimar when he throws pikmin at you.

here this is what i told fromundaman when he asked me for advice:

[12/28/2010 3:57:12 PM] Vato: olimar info: Olimar Matchup

-when you have a lead camp with nair, dair/reverse cape, It kills all the pikmin/latch back to olimar. if you have the lead you dont have to approach.

-when oli is trying to get back down read what he does, and keep him in the air

-Dthrow at low to mid percents puts Oli in a really bad position.

-At Higher % DI away from olimar's Dthrow, don't airdodge or hit his sheild

-Yellow pikmin have 0 hitstun

-Nair beats all pikmin or cancels them out

-Olimar has no ledge options, just wait

-When dair camping don't hit his sheild and jump higher if he tries to upair

-Don't land near olimar
[12/28/2010 3:57:29 PM] Vato: -Cape>whistle
[12/28/2010 3:57:36 PM] Vato: cair ***** olimar offstage
[12/28/2010 3:57:40 PM] Vato: *cape
[12/28/2010 3:57:55 PM] Vato: dair>nair in SH for good sheild pressyre
[12/28/2010 3:58:07 PM] Vato: as i said when olimar is on the ledge
[12/28/2010 3:58:20 PM] Vato: all he can do is bait you with upair
[12/28/2010 3:58:31 PM] Vato: he has no safe option to get back on capitolize on this
[12/28/2010 5:02:46 PM] Fromundaman: Awesome thanks
[12/28/2010 5:03:14 PM] Fromundaman: When he's at the ledge, are fireballs useful, or should I just wait and punish?
[12/28/2010 5:03:38 PM] Vato: fireballs are useful to pressure him to get off
[12/28/2010 5:05:43 PM] Fromundaman: okay, thanks.
[12/28/2010 5:05:57 PM] Fromundaman: All this is very useful, especially the Yellow pikmin thing.
[12/28/2010 5:06:22 PM] Fromundaman: So if, for example, he Fairs with a yellow Pikmin, I can just Uair/UpB him back?
[12/28/2010 5:06:36 PM] Vato: something like that
[12/28/2010 5:06:56 PM] Vato: the hitstun isnt really 0
[12/28/2010 5:06:59 PM] Vato: buts its really low
[12/28/2010 5:07:41 PM] Fromundaman: gotcha.
[12/28/2010 5:09:23 PM] Fromundaman: Thank you very much. Now I need to find an Oli to practice this stuff on before facing one in tournament.
[12/28/2010 5:09:44 PM] Vato: yeah
[12/28/2010 5:09:50 PM] Vato: avoid getting grabs at low percents
[12/28/2010 5:10:08 PM] Vato: its better to get gradual pikmin throw damage
[12/28/2010 5:10:13 PM] Vato: then getting grabed
[12/28/2010 5:10:28 PM] Vato: because they can just read for dangerous damage
[12/28/2010 5:10:39 PM] Vato: so its best not to get grabs at low %
[12/28/2010 5:10:50 PM] Vato: always di away
[12/28/2010 5:10:56 PM] Vato: NEVER airdodge into olimar
[12/28/2010 5:11:23 PM] Vato: its better to nair or maybe UPb at the last second
[12/28/2010 5:13:33 PM] Fromundaman: All right.
[12/28/2010 5:14:35 PM] Vato: stage control is important
[12/28/2010 5:14:38 PM] Vato: who ever has it
[12/28/2010 5:14:40 PM] Vato: wins.



this matchup is really hard but, mario can win it if you manage to gimp olimar or kill him early.

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One thing Logic told me at SiiS4 when we played in pools was to not attack his shield ever. On that note, if he gets into his shield, I would say shield pressure with fireballs or SH dair. There is no need to approach while he is in his shield. Maybe I am wrong, and correct me if I am, but that is just what I would suggest.

Also, would fludd work when he whistles? possibly good for countering recovery?

I have experimented a little with Olimar, and one thing that I know Olimar players are always doing is keeping track of their pikmin order. This may sound really elementary, but I want to stress that you as their opponent should ALSO be keeping track of the next pikmin on the list as best you can. Knowing what pikmin is next might give you a clue as to what the Olimar is about to try to do, and you can react and punish; i. e. if it's a blue pikmin next, they will probably go for the grab, so when that happens, you can spot dodge and dsmash/jab/grab, etc.

If I think of something else, I will add it later.

Vs Olimar is the most backwards matchup in the game.

You break Olimar's defenses extremely easily, but his offenses on the other hand will give you a lot more trouble. If Olimar tries to win this matchup by camping, generally you shouldn't lose. Mario can neutralize Olimar's camping extremely easily with Capes and D-airs, both of which will remove any Pikmin that latch on him, and using the Cape to actually reflect Pikmin back in Olimar's face is really good. Olimar also really doesn't have any real options against a well-spaced fireball approach, and once you're in his face, your grab and Jab game generally mess up most of his options, and with a few simple reads, it's not hard to stay in his face when he's pressured to dodge or roll. Olimar's extremely floaty stature also makes him extremely susceptible to Mario's combos and juggles, so when he's on the defensive, you just destroy him. Jab cancels and U-air juggles are powerful in this matchup, and when Olimar is offstage, both Cape and FLUDD are very very effective at gimping him, especially since they bypass the Whistle armor.

On the flip side of this matchup, Olimar is actually really annoying when he's aggressive. His F-air, and Smashes when spaced well are tools that will annoy Mario a lot, and Olimar's juggles on you are also solid given his U-air and grab game. Olimar to some extent can afford to just throw Smashes and aerials at you with reckless abandon simply because he gets more reward for it than you do for punishing him out of shield.

For Mario, winning this matchup is fairly simple. Find an opportunity to lock down and destroy Olimar with a fireball approach, and beat him up. Proceed to platform camp when a stock lead (or a reasonable percent lead) is acquired. Olimar on the other hand needs to corner Mario and prevent Mario from ever setting up a safe approach. It's a huge priority for Olimar to never lose the lead against Mario, because Mario holds the lead in this matchup really really well, especially on platformed stages.

Frigate is one of the best stages to take Olimar to since the right side is really dangerous for Olimar due to the lack of a ledge. The stage flip also has a way of separating Olimar from his Pikmin, which is also bad for him. PS1 is another good stage to take him to, since it's fairly large, gives you a lot of room to run away and space, and has platforms to camp on once you acquire the lead.

About 55/45 Olimar's favor if he understands that being aggressive works in this matchup. It's a matchup however you can always make a comeback in, and once you get the lead, it's pretty much by far in your favor.

Steep, Logic doesn't know about that Dair. You can safely attack most of the cast with Dair and just footstool off of them afterward (I tend to Nair as I'm doing it, you actually hit with the nair, which is just more shield pressure), the only characters who can really punish it are characters you can interrupt your Dair as it is happening. So, generally... characters with an invincible Up-B on startup.

Cape destroys Olimar's recovery. It becomes a guessing game of whether he's going to whistle or air dodge, if you predict right you can gimp him. If he whistles... then just cape, then he's dead. If you read an airdodge you can likely hit him with a Dsmash or a Bair out of the end of it. If he goes for the random attack, well... it is likely forward air and that isn't hard to beat.

I like Jab/Ftilt range on Olimar. I stay there all game, no camping at all from me. Up-B is also good in the matchup... but it's good in every matchup all the time. (Except Ice Climbers SOMETIMES)

I would respect Olimar's U-smash out of shield though. iirc it's 8 frames, so you can't be lazy when spacing against a good Olimar. It won't come into play that much if you're simply destroying him with fireball approaches though.

A2ZOMG said:

Vs Olimar is the most backwards matchup in the game.

You break Olimar's defenses extremely easily, but his offenses on the other hand will give you a lot more trouble. If Olimar tries to win this matchup by camping, generally you shouldn't lose. Mario can neutralize Olimar's camping extremely easily with Capes and D-airs, both of which will remove any Pikmin that latch on him, and using the Cape to actually reflect Pikmin back in Olimar's face is really good. Olimar also really doesn't have any real options against a well-spaced fireball approach, and once you're in his face, your grab and Jab game generally mess up most of his options, and with a few simple reads, it's not hard to stay in his face when he's pressured to dodge or roll. Olimar's extremely floaty stature also makes him extremely susceptible to Mario's combos and juggles, so when he's on the defensive, you just destroy him. Jab cancels and U-air juggles are powerful in this matchup, and when Olimar is offstage, both Cape and FLUDD are very very effective at gimping him, especially since they bypass the Whistle armor.

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Here we go again. MARIO DOES NOT OUTCAMP OLIMAR. I have a lot of experience in this MU because my brother mains Olimar and we both know the MU. Pierce's Olimar isn't bad either. If it was as easy as you say it is Olimar's camp game would be bad, which is not the case because his is one of the best in the game. OK so you aren't going to be sapped for 9 million damage but instead it will increment slowly. While you're doing a dair/cape to get pikmin off, Olimar can easily punish you with a grab, fair, or Usmash then continue to camp. Also getting hit by a purple can mess things up. Also, what's forcing an approach on Olimar? Nothing. Dairing pikmin doesn't make him apporach Against a fireball approach, I don't see why he can't shield the fireball or pivot grab. I tried your advice to camp against Olimar against my brother. Used dairs and cape to get off the pikmin that were on me. I lost because while I'm camping to get the pikmin off, I'm asking to be punished.

I do agree though that Mario can do some sick chains on Olimar. I also agree with the gimping, but you can't be too predictable about it. If he sees a cape coming, he can easily air dodge it.

On the flip side of this matchup, Olimar is actually really annoying when he's aggressive. His F-air, and Smashes when spaced well are tools that will annoy Mario a lot, and Olimar's juggles on you are also solid given his U-air and grab game. Olimar to some extent can afford to just throw Smashes and aerials at you with reckless abandon simply because he gets more reward for it than you do for punishing him out of shield.

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Agreed. Olimar can do a lot of **** aggressively but also defensively

For Mario, winning this matchup is fairly simple. Find an opportunity to lock down and destroy Olimar with a fireball approach, and beat him up. Proceed to platform camp when a stock lead (or a reasonable percent lead) is acquired. Olimar on the other hand needs to corner Mario and prevent Mario from ever setting up a safe approach. It's a huge priority for Olimar to never lose the lead against Mario, because Mario holds the lead in this matchup really really well, especially on platformed stages.

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I do not see how Mario holds a lead. When I hold a lead against my brother it's because I'm in his face, not because I'm camping which a lead. He definitely can hold the lead better than Mario can. If he has a significant lead, it forces Mario to approach and he can easily get grabbed.

I'm gonna give my $.02 on winning this MU. First and most importantly, avoid getting grabbed. If you can safely avoid grabs, you will do well. If the Olimar is successfully landing grabs on you, chances are you will be in trouble. Secondly, stay in his face. This is definitely a MU where you must be aggressive to win.

What steep said is very good. Keep order of his pikmin lineup. For example, if Olimar is offstage recovering, if he doesn't have a purple in front, just hold the ledge. He probably can't hit you off. Also as said, the pikmin normally determines what they will do. A white pikmin will only be used to throw of grab. They can surprise you though. Blue pikmin, although normally used for a bthrow kill, are pretty strong.

Frigate is one of the best stages to take Olimar to since the right side is really dangerous for Olimar due to the lack of a ledge. The stage flip also has a way of separating Olimar from his Pikmin, which is also bad for him. PS1 is another good stage to take him to, since it's fairly large, gives you a lot of room to run away and space, and has platforms to camp on once you acquire the lead.

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Frigate is nice. The pikmin separation isn't too big because he can easily whistle them back, but the lack of a ledge is big. I'd take him there, RC, or Brinstar (normally banned by Olimar). Maybe because the water messes him up. Ban Halberd against him. Low ceiling + increased purple is a deadly combination. Just don't take him there.

About 55/45 Olimar's favor if he understands that being aggressive works in this matchup. It's a matchup however you can always make a comeback in, and once you get the lead, it's pretty much by far in your favor.

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This is pretty contradictory. How can it be 55/45 Olimar then be far in Mario's favor if he has the lead? Especially since you said Mario is much better at keeping the lead than Olimar. According to your logic, Mario should win the MU. I do think it's 55:45 Olimar all around though.

A good Olimar won't let Mario get the lead in the first place. It sounds hard, but in practice, it's actually not unreasonable, since it's easy for Olimar to approach Mario, and he scores MASSIVE damage for getting in Mario's face.

The thing is the moment Mario DOES acquire a reasonable lead, Olimar does not have the tools to chase down a Mario that simply camps with fullhop D-airs (especially on platforms). Mario outmaneuvers Olimar, and fullhop D-air is one of the safest anti-Olimar strategies in the game. Any Mario who loses this matchup after taking the first stock should get a quick slap to the face.

Everything you're saying from experience actually is proving me correct. Olimar approaches Mario really easily, and should throw out a lot of random U-smashes, F-airs, and running grabs to get in Mario's face, since the reward for doing it is by far higher than the risk. He has no business actually camping Mario, since that's more opportunity for Mario to approach safely.

An Olimar that camps however is open to be ***** by Mario's superior anti-camp strategies.

And also, if you ever get pivot grabbed by Olimar, it's because he's juggling you. Period. If he pivot grabs your approach in this matchup, you're doing it wrong. One of the things Mario does really well is prevent Olimar from utilizing pivot grab as an anti approach tool. Well spaced fireballs will punish Olimar if he attempts to pivot grab.

A2ZOMG said:

A good Olimar won't let Mario get the lead in the first place. It sounds hard, but in practice, it's actually not unreasonable, since it's easy for Olimar to approach Mario, and he scores MASSIVE damage for getting in Mario's face.

The thing is the moment Mario DOES acquire a reasonable lead, Olimar does not have the tools to chase down a Mario that simply camps with fullhop D-airs (especially on platforms). Mario outmaneuvers Olimar, and fullhop D-air is one of the safest anti-Olimar strategies in the game. Any Mario who loses this matchup after taking the first stock should get a quick slap to the face.

Everything you're saying from experience actually is proving me correct. Olimar approaches Mario really easily, and should throw out a lot of random U-smashes, F-airs, and running grabs to get in Mario's face, since the reward for doing it is by far higher than the risk. He has no business actually camping Mario, since that's more opportunity for Mario to approach safely.

An Olimar that camps however is open to be ***** by Mario's superior anti-camp strategies.

And also, if you ever get pivot grabbed by Olimar, it's because he's juggling you. Period. If he pivot grabs your approach in this matchup, you're doing it wrong. One of the things Mario does really well is prevent Olimar from utilizing pivot grab as an anti approach tool. Well spaced fireballs will punish Olimar if he attempts to pivot grab.

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They aren't random hits. They're ways to punish his moves because he's a sitting duck. Olimar just has to camp close enough to punish his attempts to get the pikmin off. The reason he normally racks damage on me is because I am forced to approach. Eventually he will land a grab and **** will go down. Shieldgrab should have no problem against a fireball approach. Just because Olimar isn't racking that much damage doesn't mean he's forced to approach. You aren't racking damage. All he needs is to get you to approach successfully land grabs and properly follow them up. See Xero vs. Hilt game 1. The first stock Hilt takes from Xero is executed so well. So many things done right. Threw pikmin which made him approach, grabbed, followed up and then made a successful kill

Hilt said:

**** this matchup.

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Agreed. Olimar is so gay.

If you have problems with Pikmin ... remember not to shield or spotdodge outside of his fsmash range. Use jabs, utilt, ftilt and PATIENCE to get the Pikmin off you before attempting approaches. Once you get a feeling for the timing you know when a quick tilt gets rid of these ****ers. No point in shielding or spotdodging outside of his attacking range - that just opens opportunities for him. When you get the timing down you can cape single pikmin via reverse cape to throw them back.

Dair approach against Olimar is BAD, guys. He'll usmash you OoS unless you fully retreat it which puts you in a worse position. Bait grabs, use fireballs to interrupt grabs or other moves and GRAB him a lot yourself. Spotdodging is semi-useless in this match-up, shield is good if you have a read or a good bait in close range and to block fsmash in mid-range. Don't shield or dodge unless you have to though...there's little you can do against him OoS and his grabs tend to outlast spotdodges [and Pikmin >>> Spotdodge anyway].

I personally think your spacing sucks, because of the things you complain about. On the one hand, I expect Olimar to be approaching Mario with well spaced approaches backed by projectiles essentially the same way Mario approaches. On the other hand, he's Olimar, and you're Mario. You outmaneuver him in every known form of mobility that exists. You run faster, move faster in the air, jump higher, and just generally have more options in that department.

In the first place, you shouldn't even be trying unsafe things in situations where they don't work. If Olimar is in fact in the range where Caping/D-airing in place is unsafe, then do something different. Spacing B-air really well is preferable here, since it's safe, and you can move before his shieldgrab comes out. And again, there really isn't much Olimar has to punish fullhop D-air. Sure he might try U-airs here and there, but you can SDI those pretty easily, and to the point where he has to question if it's even safe on hit.

And Olimar's shield and pivot grab lose to fireball approach period. You just need to find the space to initiate it. Just don't do anything unwise before that.

Once you have a lead on him, and especially on any stage not named FD, Olimar can do nothing against Mario. Your fullhop D-air camping just protects you from everything he can do. Getting the lead against him isn't easy, but when it happens, you've basically won.

A2Z, I have a question. What happens when the Olimar PS's your fireball approach and does a sliding usmash? You make it sound like fireball approaches are full-proof. A PS/OoS option will negate a lot of the advantages you say that FB approaches give you. I agree it is a good strategy, but I feel like you hype it up to be better than it is.

Hilt said:

**** this matchup.

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This matchup is so fun. Hilt is just angry.

steep said:

A2Z, I have a question. What happens when the Olimar PS's your fireball approach and does a sliding usmash? You make it sound like fireball approaches are full-proof. A PS/OoS option will negate a lot of the advantages you say that FB approaches give you. I agree it is a good strategy, but I feel like you hype it up to be better than it is.

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PROPER Fireball approaches are completely legit. If you're getting your fireball approaches stuffed by Olimar's U-smash, I have two words for you:

Space better.

Pikmin throw > Fireball approach. Especially a red pikmin. If you really think Mario can just dair camp and fireball approach to victory, then Mario should beat Olimar 7:3.

Powershield->jab doesn't beat fireball approaches?

Inferno3044 said:

Pikmin throw > Fireball approach. Especially a red pikmin. If you really think Mario can just dair camp and fireball approach to victory, then Mario should beat Olimar 7:3.

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Against campy Olimars, the matchup is indeed like 7/3 Mario. Just generally speaking, you should never lose to an Olimar who tries to win this matchup by camping. And when Mario has the lead and camps on it, that's essentially the matchup ratio. Between Cape, D-air, better mobility, and fireballs, Mario has the tools to effectively destroy Olimar's defensive game.

Aggressive Olimars make the matchup 55/45 Olimar's favor. Even accounting how badly Mario crushes Olimar on a lead, Olimar wins 55/45 through aggressive spacing and intelligent risk taking.

DanGR said:

Powershield->jab doesn't beat fireball approaches?

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It really depends on how the Mario spaces it. Depending on how he does it, he can basically be grabbing the exact same frame as when the fireball comes into contact. Generally Olimar has to dodge or roll to avoid the grab once the fireball is out and coming towards him.

DanGR said:

Powershield->jab doesn't beat fireball approaches?

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If Mario's rushing in right behind the fireball, yeah. If he's using it to safely get closer, he can space it well enough to approach and land outside that range.

I do it all the time to space my ftilt after fireball. Safe against most characters, even if the fireball is powershielded.

However, if Oli's rushing in, Mario's retreating a short-hopped fireball, and Oli powershields it, I think he can slip in a fair or usmash during fireball's lag...I dunno. It'd have to be tested at optimal spacing n whatnot, but it seems possible. I think this is along the lines of what Steep was asking.

I've tried the strategy that A2Z is suggesting, and I suck at it. I'd love a video demonstration or something, cuz when I try it, Oli just laughs and punishes all my ****.

Matador said:

I've tried the strategy that A2Z is suggesting, and I suck at it. I'd love a video demonstration or something, cuz when I try it, Oli just laughs and punishes all my ****.

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^This is what I was thinking.

In my experience, he can jab me before I can shieldgrab a fireball and it seems to be close if I upsmash OoS, but powershielding makes it so I can punish him. Then again, perhaps all the mario players I've played were just doing it wrong.

That might be because Oli can punish it. Think about it. Olimar is a good character. Mario is not.

Caleb and I talked to Hilt about this MU yesterday at Lab 1 and he had a lot of really good advice. I think Caleb is gonna post it later.

You wanna stay in Olimar's face. Just go with it. You don't want long distance because he'll throw pikmin at you and you don't wanna be in range where he can hit/grab you safely. Try not to get grabbed as well. There's not that much to the MU. Just Olimar as a character is annoying.

Thank you hilt.

Hilt said:

What both of those guys said^

A2Z I admit that I didn't read everything you said, but almost everything that I did read is wrong. Mario does not outcamp Olimar. Cape and Dair are cool, but that isn't enough. On paper it may seem that way, but in practice it does not work. You're thinking of Olimar as too simple of a character than he is and that's your problem. I'll respond to any future posts that are made that are also wrong.

Oh, and listen to what Xero says.

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I think it's more the problem of Olimar users who don't understand how to play the character. Olimar users who get stuck on camping and waiting for approaches rather than focusing on pressure are the ones who will get ***** in this matchup. I've played many different Olimar users, and the ones who win against me are the ones that are in my face. The ones who camp and never approach are the ones I beat. And when I watch other people play this matchup, same story again. Olimar gets crushed if he stops trying to advance on Mario. Olimar controls the pace if he does.

I do say Olimar wins, but he has to actually be approaching Mario and aiming to corner him, and yes, I am implying that Olimar is not as simple as the players who are stuck with never approaching with him. If he does let Mario get the lead though, then all Mario needs to do to hold it and win is basically platform camp with D-airs and Capes. The fact of the matter is Olimar does not have the tools to chase a Mario who has the lead on most stages besides maybe FD.

The entire matchup in general is a spacing war. One where both Olimar and Mario are competing for the optimal space to make a safe approach. And quite frankly Olimar gets more reward for approaching. He DOES NOT win by camping. An Olimar who plays this matchup right will be advancing towards Mario for most of the match, only moving the other direction when it's for juggling.

Lol A2Z, I find it pretty hard to believe that the majority of Olimar mains don't understand their own character. I mean, that's a pretty ridiculous statement.

But anywho, I find that I do the best against Olimar when I'm right up in his grill. Approach with fireballs, but do it intelligently. I would just throw a fireball and wait, see how he responds. Fireballs shut down his grabs. Once you're inside just do Mario things. Dthrow, jabs, utilts, are always awesome.

Camping Oli doesn't work. I personally would never camp an Olimar. Sure, cape, dair, & nair may work for a little bit, but throwing out those moves give Oli plenty of time and space to set up and punish.

Platform camping can work alright I guess, but I don't really like being above Oli. It's not really a good place to be.

Calebyte said:

Lol A2Z, I find it pretty hard to believe that the majority of Olimar mains don't understand their own character. I mean, that's a pretty ridiculous statement.

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Did I say majority? The point is there are plenty of Olimar users who probably will get ***** by a Mario and it's simply because they're stuck on one defensive playstyle that normally works on other characters. I didn't say the majority of competitive Olimar players will get ***** in this matchup.

Camping Oli doesn't work. I personally would never camp an Olimar. Sure, cape, dair, & nair may work for a little bit, but throwing out those moves give Oli plenty of time and space to set up and punish.

Platform camping can work alright I guess, but I don't really like being above Oli. It's not really a good place to be.

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Olimar's jumps and U-air are super telegraphed. If you actually get hit by his U-air (which you DEFINITELY shouldn't be when platform camping), SDI that (it's possible to punish him on hit if you really try). Olimar generally speaking does not want to be fullhopping at all anyway due to how floaty he is.

And if you feel an Up-smash is coming, it's common knowledge that N-air beats it.

Nair beats his u-smash? Didn't know that.

It's not always reliable. At least compared to Luigi's.

Lol @ A2 thinking Oli mains don't know their character

I would prefer that you actually post intelligently. I've played more Olimars than you have, in person no less, and further judging from talking online to other random Olimar users, I can say with complete certainty that a good number of Olimar players don't understand how to switch up playstyles with their character especially when playing against a Mario.

The fact of the matter is simple, in that Olimar has to play this matchup completely differently than he does in others.

A2ZOMG said:

I would prefer that you actually post intelligently. I've played more Olimars than you have, in person no less, and further judging from talking online to other random Olimar users, I can say with complete certainty that a good number of Olimar players don't understand how to switch up playstyles with their character especially when playing against a Mario.

The fact of the matter is simple, in that Olimar has to play this matchup completely differently than he does in others.

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So you've played randoms that use Olimar. Cool story brah.

I would prefer that you actually post while taking other people's idea in mind rather than thinking "this guy is dumb and wrong and I'm always right." You are the only person who believes that Mario can outcamp Olimar. Unless you have played and beaten someone like Rich Brown while he was camping maybe, just MAYBE you might be wrong about something.

Olimar is easy to beat

You guys are obviously feeding a troll.

"This person does not know how to play the character they main."

Obvious troll is obvious. But I guess it's a bit hard to comprehend the excessive trolling due to being hidden in the wall of texts he loves to do.

get graped, bro.

Kanzaki said:

You guys are obviously feeding a troll.

"This person does not know how to play the character they main."

Obvious troll is obvious. But I guess it's a bit hard to comprehend the excessive trolling due to being hidden in the wall of texts he loves to do.

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You mean like the ones in this discussion?

Inferno3044 said:

It's not always reliable. At least compared to Luigi's.

r

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Really? That's one of the few constants for me in this matchup...it always beats it everytime I try.

Matador said:

Really? That's one of the few constants for me in this matchup...it always beats it everytime I try.

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Tbh I'm not 100% sure about it. I don't normally fall nair into olimar with Mario. I do it all the time with Luigi though. I just know Luigi's in general has more priority. I could be wrong and might use that. Might also be that Luigi gets much more reward from it.

When I watch you vs Xero, the first thing I notice is your Olimar gets ***** the instant you stop pressuring Xero and start trying to camp more. Olimar doesn't win this matchup by Pikmin tossing and pivot grabbing. Mario can just fullhop D-air and Cape all day and take basically no damage if that's everything Olimar does. This is why Olimar approaches in this matchup. It's by far much more productive for Olimar to be spacing aerials and intelligently applied Smashes supplemented by the occasional purple toss. You might call it camping since in Mario vs Olimar, a lot of nothing tends to happen in between action, but I call it spacing, since it all leads to rushdown on both sides.

I don't know what you're telling me that you can't SDI Olimar's yellow U-air. It has plenty of hitlag, and a normal SDI modifier.

And fair, I didn't know that Olimar can SH U-air with yellows to cover the top platform. However the options of platform camping are not merely limited to jumping. Being allowed to shield without worrying about grab is by far the biggest advantage to platform camping, and the reason why it's extremely effective against Olimar. Olimar gets the most damage from his grabs and Smashes. Yes his U-air can do a lot of damage if every hit connects.

Also I don't really see the threat in frametrapping with it. Yeah your U-air has a total duration of like 34 frames. Hitboxes ending on like frame 20 or so is alright. It's definitely not say the ICs U-air for frametrapping (note: a character that we definitely like platform camping), and given that Olimar is less mobile than Mario, I don't see how he has a really good answer for Mario jumping out of shield. Maybe once in a while he'll tickle Mario a bit with his U-air if Mario completely forgets about shielding on the platform, cape stalling, B-reversals, etc. U-smash also fails against jump out of shield as well and is extra hard to land if Mario knows how to Cape stall above it, not to mention if it's obvious enough, N-air beats it.

Especially if Mario is camping on a stock lead, I really don't see Mario losing to Olimar unless the stage is FD.