Donkey Kong Matchup Export~

Ishiey · Apr 3, 2011

Donkey Kong

Wolf's Current Ratio: 0

Annoying Moves:
Killing:
Zoning:
Chaingrabs/Tilt Locks/Grab Releases:
What To Do Offstage:
Stages
- Strike:
- Ban:
- Pick:
MU Tricksies:
Synopsis and Quotes:

Laem · Apr 3, 2011

Blaster his approaches except shield approach.
He is super vulnerable to juggles, so get him in the air.
Grab his landings and uthrow(seriously, play vs DK on FD and just watch him being garbage as you continuously grab his landing)
Take initiative. If he's bairing your shield instead of the other way around, you're prolly gonna end up getting sideb'd or neutral b'd eventually, and you do NOT want this. No really, you're dead at 80% or something LOL.
His bair is good vs wolf. Blaster him till he gives up.
Best thing to do if he continuously bairs you as you're trying to recover is to long-flashcancel onto the stage.
Make him think about his recovery. If he's predictable, take it home with dair. If he expects this he can stall a bit by not moving towards the ledge immediately. Dair with caution.
Dthrow him at a high % at the ledge and its a guaranteed dairspike.
Don't use grounded moves except Fsmash to punish his down b.
His juggling is dangerous, uair's a good move. You're best off trying to get outta there with your midair jump and blaster reverses.
Kill him with... whatever, it's probably gonna be downsmash anyway :D. Note: if he uses upb as a last resort to survive a killing blow, please space your dsmash really well: if he lands on top of you, you'll get the weak dsmash and feel stupid.
If he doesn't ban it pick FD(easy juggles). Smashville is good too(if he avoids your juggle by upbing to the platform please platformcancel and grab, kk thx US :D).
Stageban... honestly idk.
If he planks....shine > jumpshine him. It's might not work and you'll end up dying, but at least you tried. (But yeah, better have LGL)

oh right MU ratio. emmmmmmmmmmmm either +1 wolf favor or 0. If you get hit by his **** you die.

Semifer · Apr 3, 2011

Ban YI. If he wants to get away with a lagless UpB on a platform or something interrupt him during his UpB with an aerial or if you are cool with SideB (just came into my mind, might work), don't wait too long and eat a platform drop Bair or run into a powershield. If he's doing a grounded UpB and you know your shield won't make it long enough roll behind him and charge fsmash for a hard punish. Spotdodge SideB on reaction if he wants to break your shield. Shine is a great anti juggling tool vs DK. Try to recover mainly with your DJ and not with SideB or UpB, DK is too good at interrupting those and ****** you offstage.

Seagull Joe · Apr 3, 2011

Even matchup. I played Will a lot. Wolf has the tools to avoid most of Dk's kill moves till high percents. As long as you're wary of Dk's punch and Bair then nothing else should kill you. Dk can gimp Wolf too (Better then most characters at least). His shield is *** so stabbing it full with lasers and/or bair is pretty easily done.

He'll die from Usmash mostly at high percents (170ish) unless you can get a Dsmash safely landed. Bair will be stale as **** because that's how you damage him a lot.

Keep shine ready when Dk is under you and you're in the air because Uair kills early, which is why you bait it with shine.

Avoid Yi. Wolf does pretty well/better then/or even on almost every other stage. I don't like Lylat, but Dk's take me there cause the incline helps with auto up b canceling like on Yi.

We end Dk on halberd. We just...destroy him on halberd.

Neon! · Apr 3, 2011

Wolfs already covered most of the matchup it seems. DK and Wolf are actually fairly similar characters, both rely heavily on spacing with their bairs, have similar air speed and have good range overall on their tilts/smashes.

Their differences are definitely played out in this matchup though:

DK:
Lives longer/kills faster
much easier to juggle
pokable shield
good gimp setups with cargo-downthrow

Wolf:
ability to avoid juggling with shine, b-reversals
stage control with laser
safer aerials all around
Easier to gimp

CP's seem about even, Dk has yoshi's (brinstar?) and wolf apparently has halberd although I havent played any wolfs there.

I would say it's an even matchup, I don't see either character having an advantage at top level play.

Laem · Apr 3, 2011

whats with this YI crap
just cuz will planked richbrown there? LOL

Chuee · Apr 3, 2011

No, DK has a ledge glitch where his up-b is invincible for a good duration of the move.

Choice · Apr 4, 2011

its like the entire move too, so like theres no end lag that you can punish. you gotta punish the option that happens after it which will pretty much never be shield.

Deleted member · Apr 4, 2011

Will that ledge glitch work on Pictochat as well?

Choice · Apr 4, 2011

yes, it will. anywhere that aerial spinning kong can become grounded spinning kong during the invincibility on start up it can and will happen..

Seagull Joe · Apr 4, 2011

vVv Choice said:
its like the entire move too, so like theres no end lag that you can punish. you gotta punish the option that happens after it which will pretty much never be shield.

The whole thing isn't usually invincible so you can punish when he stops being translucent with a laser, usmash or anything really.

ook · Apr 4, 2011

The whole thing is always invincible, the only way to stop it is to clank with the hitbox of it. It's just a way for DK to get back on the stage safely, which is sometimes a problem for DK on other stages at >100%.

I'd say the match is pretty even. I play kain a lot, and he ***** me every time, but it seems that it's just because he's a much better player (spacing and stuff) rather than any matchup issues.

_Kain_ · Apr 4, 2011

DK's bair is better than ours in terms of which one wins out. Don't try to compete with it just reset and blaster it til he stops then go back to yours and poking. Also what Ook said, it should be known DK players CP's will always be Picto or YI cause of the UP B glitch. (Also japes if it wasn't banned

Seagull Joe · Apr 4, 2011

ook said:
The whole thing is always invincible, the only way to stop it is to clank with the hitbox of it. It's just a way for DK to get back on the stage safely, which is sometimes a problem for DK on other stages at >100%.

I'd say the match is pretty even. I play kain a lot, and he ***** me every time, but it seems that it's just because he's a much better player (spacing and stuff) rather than any matchup issues.

I meant it's not always invincible except when you begin it on an incline like Yi and Picto. In those regards it should just be ran away from till Dk's up b ends lmao.

Choice · Apr 4, 2011

wolf's jab clanks with up b normally i think, does it clank when he's invincible too? i know grounded tornado does, but we dont have one of those =/

Ishiey · Apr 5, 2011

I think this MU is even, mostly because DK just kills so much earlier than Wolf and benefits that much more from hard reads (SA on Giant Punch... X_x). While Wolf can play it safe and avoid a lot of DK's kill moves, getting predictable is dangerous. Afaik, a lot of people prefer to be campy in this MU to wear down DK's mediocre shield and stuff SH approaches with lasers, and since Wolf has that option I'd suggest forcing DK to come to you whenever possible. Play cautious to avoid his more dangerous attacks, and you should be okay.

Be on the lookout for sideB and neutralB. The former is easy to dodge on reaction but if it catches you offguard you're in deep ****, and the latter is able to tear through many of your attacks with SA but slow enough that if you haven't committed to anything yet you should be able to avoid it. Mostly keep this in mind if/when you're bairing his shield, because if you keep a rhythm it's not that hard for the DK to time a punch through your assault.

Hold up when DK cargos you, it's the fastest way to break out (while also doing the regular mashing, of course). That + stage teching will help you avoid the cargo stage spike.

For the love of all that is good in this world, ban YI X___x Incinvible upB is a pain, but so are all the shyguys extending DK's hitboxes imo, and uneven terrain messes up AC fair for us while not doing anything significant against DK afaik. Idk as much about Brinstar in this MU, both characters have their strengths on that stage.

Everything else I can think of has already been said. DK's weak shield, blaster his bair instead of trying to bair it, juggling (DK's bad options below/in front of him in the air, Wolf's options for avoiding DK's juggles), etc. Also, I'm pretty sure JJ's fthrow combo works on DK (in case you ever grab him at really low %s lol): fthrow > dtilt trip > dacus.

Ojih~Sama · Apr 5, 2011

hmmm, lets see if i can contribute here...

what i know about the DK MU off the top of my head that already hasnt been said....

*if u dthrow DK at low %'s he can retaliate with either jab or dtilt so wut i tend to do is reflector that attempt

*be wary of jab>dsmash, DK's first jab sucks u in, and also sweet spotted uptilt

*at low %'s fair>fair or fair>usmash>follow up(if DI'ed) = true combo

*u can dsmash DK at the very edge of the ledge when he's recovering if: A) u space and time ur dsmash appropriately and B) DK's back is ohhh soo slightly above the horizontal plane of the stage

*when DK does grounded upB very close to u, u can shield then roll away, and if u get caught in it, u can SDI out to take let dmg

*stay away from walls!!! if DK grabs u close to a wall, such the brunt tree in pokemon stadium, he dtilt locks u into dsmash and u will most likely die

**u can however lock DK against the wall with reflector or dtilt

*u can keep DK's aerial approaches at bay with laser

*shine can beat DK's upB either grounded or off stage, tho it does not beat invinc-frame upB (via YI's or Picto)

Stages: FD adv, juggle him there - BF even, DK has some cool techies with upB and the platforms, tho wolf can use the platforms to get aerial kills with fair or uair and uptilt pokes below if hes above and shielding - Halberd ??, rly we r good on halberd against DK? i hate that stage, so much in the background

- Lylat disadv, im getting use to lylat, but DK can do more on that stage, sweetspot utilt on the platforms, the tilting stage screws with wolf's fair SH canceling and that ledge......

i would say MU 55:45 if u know what ur doing/up against

i havent played the best Dk...i would have if all the other Dks would have given me a chance at WHOBO >__>, but my biggest concern now is that god-like planking Dk can now do tho now LGL may be better enforced.....

Seagull Joe · Apr 6, 2011

Ojih~Sama said:
hmmm, lets see if i can contribute here...

what i know about the DK MU off the top of my head that already hasnt been said....

*if u dthrow DK at low %'s he can retaliate with either jab or dtilt so wut i tend to do is reflector that attempt

*be wary of jab>dsmash, DK's first jab sucks u in, and also sweet spotted uptilt

*at low %'s fair>fair or fair>usmash>follow up(if DI'ed) = true combo

*u can dsmash DK at the very edge of the ledge when he's recovering if: A) u space and time ur dsmash appropriately and B) DK's back is ohhh soo slightly above the horizontal plane of the stage

*when DK does grounded upB very close to u, u can shield then roll away, and if u get caught in it, u can SDI out to take let dmg

*stay away from walls!!! if DK grabs u close to a wall, such the brunt tree in pokemon stadium, he dtilt locks u into dsmash and u will most likely die

**u can however lock DK against the wall with reflector or dtilt

*u can keep DK's aerial approaches at bay with laser

*shine can beat DK's upB either grounded or off stage, tho it does not beat invinc-frame upB (via YI's or Picto)

Stages: FD adv, juggle him there - BF even, DK has some cool techies with upB and the platforms, tho wolf can use the platforms to get aerial kills with fair or uair and uptilt pokes below if hes above and shielding - Halberd ??, rly we r good on halberd against DK? i hate that stage, so much in the background - Lylat disadv, im getting use to lylat, but DK can do more on that stage, sweetspot utilt on the platforms, the tilting stage screws with wolf's fair SH canceling and that ledge......

i would say MU 55:45 if u know what ur doing/up against

i havent played the best Dk...i would have if all the other Dks would have given me a chance at WHOBO >__>, but my biggest concern now is that god-like planking Dk can now do tho now LGL may be better enforced.....

Reflector can't wall lock. Jab>Dsmash isn't a true combo. Fair>Usmash isn't a true combo, but it's a great gimmick that works on a lot of people. Dk's Up b isn't scary when it's grounded at all because you can stop it by simply jabbing. Rolling away isn't necessary. A LGL is always necessary for tourneyplay and I'd go Mk if it wasn't.

Ojih~Sama · Apr 6, 2011

-rly, reflector cant? o.o guess some dks dont di >_>
-jab>dsmash is not yes, but i've seen dks get it off
-i guess the ppl i play fall for it alot....
-didnt know u can stop upB with jab as well, but i was saying if u get caught inside to where u have to shield, u can shield and roll away instead of having dks upB eat up ur shield
-and i was referring to will's planking at Whobo 3 about other characters having a LGL

Ishiey · Apr 6, 2011

Reflector gives them time to shield. Speaking of which, I like offensive jumpshine a lot in this MU.

When DK is planking perfectly, he has 6 frames of vulnerability. If you're JJ, triple shine spike DK during that time lol, but if you mess up a gimp vs DK you're dead so be cautious.

Ojih~Sama · Apr 7, 2011

well, i'll be going to a tourney on the 23rd, and i know a good DK, if we cross paths at that tourney i'll posts some matches if it helps any

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