R.O.B. Matchup Export~

Ishiey · Apr 3, 2011

R.O.B.

Wolf's Current Ratio: -1

Annoying Moves:
Killing:
Zoning:
Chaingrabs/Tilt Locks/Grab Releases:
What To Do Offstage:
Stages
- Strike:
- Ban:
- Pick:
MU Tricksies:
Synopsis and Quotes:

~ Gheb ~ · Apr 3, 2011

I don't think Wolf loses this match-up and I think Seagull is too inclined to base match-ups exclusively on his own experience ... I know he immediately agreed with the -1 ratio just because he lost to stingers' ROB, which I'd take with a grain of salt.

Annoying moves:

- Gyro: I think it disappears if you PS it. I prefer that over shine.
- Laser: Ducking or jumping over it seems better than shine. I always choose the move with the least commitment/risk against projectiles.
- Ftilt: Probably ROB's most important move in the match-up because it's such a good anti-aerial.
- Bair: Has a tricky hitbox in front and behind making it a decent bait. Don't rush into that hoping to punish it.

Killing:

- Wolf: out of a juggle or Powershield like in many match-ups. Obviously, don't try to force the kill against him for various reasons.
- ROB: Only kills you upon a major whiff. Don't try to force the kill against him and he will have trouble killing you [especially if you're smart offstage]

Zoning:

I think the main reason Wolf players lose to ROB is because they have their air game outzoned by ROB's ground game. I often preach to Wolf players to improve their ground game and this match-up is a good example where a strong ground game will get you far. Our tippered ftilt beats his, guys! Don't just do the old "bairdance until you get him in the air" all day - bait his ftilts with fake empty jumps and ftilt him back. I hardly see Wolves using ftilt - I don't think ROB has the OoS options to punish tipper ftilt.
Vertical zoning we **** ROB. A really good ROB will not just blatantly airdodge for you to juggle him all day and mix in reverse Gyro and bair. I don't think Wolf has any particular trouble covering these options though because of how big our fair hitbox is and how much faster we are in the air.
He should never juggle you - never airdodge. Just don't. If you see him chasing from below just pivot your blaster to turn away from him and there's ZERO chance for him to catch you. Simple as that.

-LzR- · Apr 3, 2011

Gyro always disappears on shield. This makes it less effective but also allows Rob to charge a new one. Just wanted to tell you that

castorpollux · Apr 3, 2011

only reason why i think rob may have an advantage in this matchup is caz wolf is even vs rob on neutrals, but then loses on stupid stages like RC, brinstar, and frigate

Seagull Joe · Apr 3, 2011

castorpollux said:
only reason why i think rob may have an advantage in this matchup is caz wolf is even vs rob on neutrals, but then loses on stupid stages like RC, brinstar, and frigate

And his Fair gimping abilities. Offstage Rob is better then Wolf is.

Gheb_01 said:
I don't think Wolf loses this match-up and I think Seagull is too inclined to base match-ups exclusively on his own experience ... I know he immediately agreed with the -1 ratio just because he lost to stingers' ROB, which I'd take with a grain of salt.

Annoying moves:

- Gyro: I think it disappears if you PS it. I prefer that over shine.
- Laser: Ducking or jumping over it seems better than shine. I always choose the move with the least commitment/risk against projectiles.
- Ftilt: Probably ROB's most important move in the match-up because it's such a good anti-aerial.
- Bair: Has a tricky hitbox in front and behind making it a decent bait. Don't rush into that hoping to punish it.

Killing:

- Wolf: out of a juggle or Powershield like in many match-ups. Obviously, don't try to force the kill against him for various reasons.
- ROB: Only kills you upon a major whiff. Don't try to force the kill against him and he will have trouble killing you [especially if you're smart offstage]

Zoning:

I think the main reason Wolf players lose to ROB is because they have their air game outzoned by ROB's ground game. I often preach to Wolf players to improve their ground game and this match-up is a good example where a strong ground game will get you far. Our tippered ftilt beats his, guys! Don't just do the old "bairdance until you get him in the air" all day - bait his ftilts with fake empty jumps and ftilt him back. I hardly see Wolves using ftilt - I don't think ROB has the OoS options to punish tipper ftilt.
Vertical zoning we **** ROB. A really good ROB will not just blatantly airdodge for you to juggle him all day and mix in reverse Gyro and bair. I don't think Wolf has any particular trouble covering these options though because of how big our fair hitbox is and how much faster we are in the air.
He should never juggle you - never airdodge. Just don't. If you see him chasing from below just pivot your blaster to turn away from him and there's ZERO chance for him to catch you. Simple as that.

Last time I played Stingers I won though. I still agree with Wolf having a slight disadvantage.

Ishiey · Apr 3, 2011

Nice post Gheb, thanks for the organization ;D I agree with the importance of ground game, since ROB's ftilt is so good vs bair. His fsmash is good too, off of a good bair read it can get the kill with its disjoint.

@ JJ, I still really don't see why Frigate is bad in Wolf vs ROB. Higher ceiling = nair kills later, and the general layout of the stage tends to promote juggling. RC is definitely bad for us though, Brinstar not as much but still leaning towards ROB (imo).

castorpollux · Apr 3, 2011

Ishieymoro said:
Nice post Gheb, thanks for the organization ;D I agree with the importance of ground game, since ROB's ftilt is so good vs bair. His fsmash is good too, off of a good bair read it can get the kill with its disjoint.

@ JJ, I still really don't see why Frigate is bad in Wolf vs ROB. Higher ceiling = nair kills later, and the general layout of the stage tends to promote juggling. RC is definitely bad for us though, Brinstar not as much but still leaning towards ROB (imo).

okay the whole point is that rob has some clear advantages on SOME stages while wolf doesnt have an advantage vs ROB on ANY stage.

therefore, the matchup inherently has to be in ROB's favor. Even if it's really slight

~ Gheb ~ · Apr 3, 2011

I can see see Wolf having advantage on BF, Lylat and Delphino at least tbh.

castorpollux · Apr 3, 2011

Gheb_01 said:
I can see see Wolf having advantage on BF, Lylat and Delphino at least tbh.

that might be true, but it's not definite or obvious at all. there's really no stage that gives wolf a clear advantage.

even if wolf has a very slight advantage on all the stages except two, if he loses badly on those remaining stages, he still loses the matchup.

ishieymoro knows the power of having 1 stage where u can never lose =p

Ishiey · Apr 3, 2011

^ Using the old ratio system, if we lose 6:4 on every stage but win 100:0 on our CP, the MU is better than 6:4 for Wolf in a Bo3 set ;D But yeah, I think we might beat ROB on those stages, maybe not as strong as ROB's CPs but with stage bans I think it evens out.

ROB's nair is annoying but a bit on the slow side, unless it's spaced very well I've seen Wolves shine it on reaction when falling from above. Not sure if a landing nair can be punished with usmash OoS though. I usually punish shielded dsmashs with sh fair/bair OoS, if you're too slow you can retreat it to be safe from punishment and if ROB tries another dsmash you'll be above the hitbox.

~ Gheb ~ · Apr 3, 2011

What are ROB's "strong" CPs though? Other than RC which can be banned I only see Frigate as somewhat troublesome but it doesn't change the match-up more into his favor than Delphino or Lylat do for us imo.

_Kain_ · Apr 3, 2011

How are Delfino and Lylat good for us against ROB?

~ Gheb ~ · Apr 3, 2011

Platform set-ups are good for us in both cases and I feel like platforms help us vs ROB in general.

Also Delphino has parasolic shine bombing.

Seagull Joe · Apr 3, 2011

Gheb_01 said:
Platform set-ups are good for us in both cases and I feel like platforms help us vs ROB in general.

Also Delphino has parasolic shine bombing.

Well parasolic shine bombing guarantees makes most matchups for Wolf +4 at minimum, but we cant parasolic shine bomb on other stages =/.

~ Gheb ~ · Apr 4, 2011

I mainly like to know where JJ is coming from with his logic. What are these "strong CPs" ROB has that make a match-up where he claims the tools to be even [which I agree with] suddenly in his favor? That has to be a pretty drastic CP.

Deleted member · Apr 4, 2011

I mean, Meta Knight counterpicking Brinstar I would say is a drastic advantage counterpick. I don't think ROB has anything to quite that extent he could take us to.

Cubone · Apr 4, 2011

ROB doesn't have any GREAT cps, but hes not really bad anywhere.

_Kain_ · Apr 4, 2011

Cubone said:
ROB doesn't have any GREAT cps, but hes not really bad anywhere.

It doesn't matter cause Spacies are bad on Frigate and RC in general, and he does well their which puts the matches in his favor on those stages.

For Ish, the reason I think Frigate isn't that good for Wolf is cause of the first part's right side, and the 2nd part's middle of the stage. The right side of the first part is a given, if you get knocked off it's hell trying to get back. You eat up so much damage depending on teh character your playing, ROB being one of them. The 2nd part middle of the stage, the slopes mess with fair cancelling, it's hard to keep control of the middle cause of not very good keep out moves, and it's also hard to get control of the middle cause Wolf has a hard time hitting people sort of below his ground level ( Bair and Shine are the only good options IMO).

Choice · Apr 4, 2011

you could always just fullhop your fairs on frigate 2nd stage, though honestly i hate that stage so i think no one should ever play on it.

stingers · Apr 5, 2011

ROB has strong CPs in this MU on Frigate and RC. If so inclined they would basically be a free win for ROB with two opponents of a similar skill level. I think ROB wins +1 but I can see it being even.

And Seagull you beat me in a MM not tourney but w/e >.> I got u next time =]

Seagull Joe · Apr 5, 2011

I'll be down in Nc...Dunno when next lmao. Go to CoT5 and we can play there =).

stingers · Apr 5, 2011

i won't leave this state for a loooooooooong time probably. im currently at $0.00

Choice · Apr 5, 2011

what's so good about rob on rainbow and frigate? i would sooner ban frigate than rainbow in this mu, but please explain =3

Rizk18 · Apr 5, 2011

Lets discuss Fox.

Conviction · Apr 7, 2011

No let's not...

Ishiey · Apr 7, 2011

Let's get back on topic >___>

@ Kain, I suppose I agree with your reasoning, the little cave in the second transformation definitely helps ROB out in this MU. Gyro is pretty annoying there imo :x

I don't think it's been mentioned, but we can reflect grounded gyros to gain posession. Not entirely sure how useful it is in practice though, can anyone shed some light on that?

castorpollux · Apr 7, 2011

Ishieymoro said:
Let's get back on topic >___>

@ Kain, I suppose I agree with your reasoning, the little cave in the second transformation definitely helps ROB out in this MU. Gyro is pretty annoying there imo :x

I don't think it's been mentioned, but we can reflect grounded gyros to gain posession. Not entirely sure how useful it is in practice though, can anyone shed some light on that?

its actually what you should do. Some people try to pick up the gyro without gaining control of it first. also, what some robs like to do is leave the gyro near the ledge so when u try to get back on, u get hit by it. u can counter this by jumpshining from the ledge and then coming back on. also, if u gain control of the gyro, do not let rob gain control of it back.

Moritaka · Apr 11, 2011

R.O.B it's not really good in air, and using ground movements it's slow for me, but yep, his specials are annoying :|

ccst · Apr 19, 2011

What is "parasolic shine bombing"?

But I would that say the ratio for this MU is 45:55 Wolf's disadvantage.

Deleted member · Apr 25, 2011

How do you deal with R.O.B.'s that like to F-tilt? I have a lot of trouble getting around that move.

~ Gheb ~ · Apr 25, 2011

Get better on the ground, guys *smh*

Gheb_01 said:
Zoning:

I think the main reason Wolf players lose to ROB is because they have their air game outzoned by ROB's ground game. I often preach to Wolf players to improve their ground game and this match-up is a good example where a strong ground game will get you far. Our tippered ftilt beats his, guys! Don't just do the old "bairdance until you get him in the air" all day - bait his ftilts with fake empty jumps and ftilt him back. I hardly see Wolves using ftilt - I don't think ROB has the OoS options to punish tipper ftilt.

castorpollux · Apr 25, 2011

Auspher said:
How do you deal with R.O.B.'s that like to F-tilt? I have a lot of trouble getting around that move.

fair OOS is ur bess friend

Ishiey · Apr 26, 2011

@ Gheb: I feel like I'm missing something with whatever you're saying about ftilt... if you can magically space tipper all the time that's great (and fairly amazing), but if ROB tries to attack in your direction you clash with the first hit and end up stuck in hitlag so ROB can go in for a grab or whatever. How do you avoid things like that?

~ Gheb ~ · Apr 26, 2011

It's not magical or amazing lol. Just WALK a lot and you can react to it ... bair / fair OoS if he hits your shield and ftilt him back if he whiffs it. It's a simple game of bait & punish against a character with highly limited OoS options. I don't see what's there to not understand =/

M.C. Pee-Pants · Jun 5, 2011

I was wondering if a rob tryed to bair wolf while recoving from a side b would the wolf side b beat the bair or would they both hit also the way the rob is baring is from the engine part

Seagull Joe · Jun 5, 2011

M.C. Pee-Pants said:
I was wondering if a rob tryed to bair wolf while recoving from a side b would the wolf side b beat the bair or would they both hit also the way the rob is baring is from the engine part

Good question...Wolf would lose the trade almost always. It's not worth it, because the Bair from Rob puts Wolf in very awkward positions to get gimped afterward.

Zync · Jun 5, 2011

Its actually horrible, free KO for rob if you get caught by that, so try to avoid it

Ishiey · Jun 6, 2011

Yeah, ROB's bair is pretty damn good. The lingering hitbox + death trajectory is no fun at all

Any good tips on working around it besides shine?

Choice · Jun 6, 2011

Side b cancel above robs head instead and then just juggle if he goes off stage =)

http://tinyurl.com/4p3tau

like that

Zync · Jun 6, 2011

Yeah just dont challenge Robs bair, trying using Up B for a change if hes baiting the side B, and avoid sides like if he was MK

R.O.B. Matchup Export~

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