Gameplay based on Character Matchup Counters

So I created this based off the individual character match up charts and off of the characters that I feel most comfortable with and also the idea of playing a match-up using a character not commonly played against someone but that is still in your favor. These are the character's I am going to start using against different match ups in order to try to win more tournament matches. i'd like to know who else has theorized using a strategy such as this and their various success with it. For those who don't know me, I'm a former top 8 MK main from Texas and following that the former number #1 sheik player in the US for brawl based on tournament results (which doesn't say much).

Also if anyone else has decided on using a similar system I'd love to see what types of combinations of characters people plan on playing. Further I will be working on specific counter pick stages based on each match up probably trying to implement the best 2 counter pick stages for each match up in order to always have a good option available for counter pick.

My goal here is to promote thought and planning ahead as to what you will do in each situation and level of a tournament.
I'm asking if you had the ability to play up to 6-7 characters per tournament what kind of choices you would make based on the match up and why

Some Advantages
1.Harder for people to counter pick you
2.'Advantage' in most match ups
3.Better character knowledge through playing new characters
4.More options for different match ups
5.More fun

Without further ado my new character selection list for competitive brawl based on my playstyles and comfort.

Opponents Character - My Character Choices
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I'm semi unsure what exactly what your goal is. Are you trying to create a universal counterpick list/chart for players to use when they have troubles with certain matchups and wanna see what options they have?

Light... Rob is in nearly EVERY ****ING list for "character I would CP them with". I mean most *****s out there aren't gonna look to Rob for countering LUIGI lol.

Miss you Light!

Hmm, most people can't juggle this many characters. If you can, and I know you have the skill for it, then more power to you.

I wouldn't go Pit for D3 man. D3 is pretty good against Pit.

Esca said:

I wouldn't go Pit for D3 man. D3 is pretty good against Pit.

Click to expand...

It doesn't seem too bad for me, you just have to be patient and it certainly seems like you would have plenty of options to counter d3's
Also my chart is based off what the individual character match up chart says I will look into the reasoning behind a lot of those and learn to master the strategies they recommend.

DMG said:

Light... Rob is in nearly EVERY ****ING list for "character I would CP them with". I mean most *****s out there aren't gonna look to Rob for countering LUIGI lol.

Miss you Light!

Click to expand...

Miss you too DMG, but again as I stated up top, this is MY list of characters I would use to counter all the characters on the roster, it certainly does not mean these characters are a good choice for everyone

Nike. said:

I'm semi unsure what exactly what your goal is. Are you trying to create a universal counterpick list/chart for players to use when they have troubles with certain matchups and wanna see what options they have?

Click to expand...

I'm simply working on creating this for me and as I get more time I will explain my reasoning and also the counter pick stages I would use in said match ups in order to have a better plan of action once I get to tournaments, because I know that myself and I feel like other people also definately sometimes will second guess their choices in tournament matches.

My goal here is to promote thought and planning ahead as to what you will do in each situation and level of a tournament.


Also thank you gea for saying I have the skill, and in general most people that have already achieved a high level of play certainly have the skill, all it takes is time and practice and focusing on what you want to learn. Not to mention a lot of players that have the skill also already have half the knowledge required to play multiple characters in tournament, they would simply pick up 2-3 more in order to counter certain match-ups and have a greater chance at winning the tournament. I myself currently have at least a cursory knowledge of every character I have listed that I would be playing as, I would just need to hone my skills in the aforementioned match ups in order to succeed in a tournament setting

I'm asking if you had the ability to play up to 6-7 characters per tournament what kind of choices you would make based on the match up and why

If they don't know the Wario MU: Wario

If they know the Wario MU: MK/Diddy/pray to god Marth works LOL

Esca said:

I wouldn't go Pit for D3 man. D3 is pretty good against Pit.

Click to expand...

My D3 doesn't count.

This is interesting AJ, i'd like to see what everybody would put on their own lists.

Sheik for Marth? broly

W/ infinites being allowed in most tournaments now, D3 is a good cp for luigi. Marth is the anti christ for him

yeah I think it would be really cool for people to step up their games another notch and not realize that just because MK is the best character does not mean he is the best character in every match up, it would also be interesting to see the people who main mid tier characters to simply pick up a few more to cover more options because I know they have the talent, I just think it promotes improvement to think about it

sheik all the way for me lol or fox

well I've always in some ways been one to "play to win" and I think this could be a good strategy to that end, I'm going to drop the self delusions of maining only 1 to 2 characters and truly plan ahead to beat people in ways that I have not done before, and I'm also challenging others to try to do the same

I'll give it a try.

I go 99% Marth. Here's every matchup he has that isn't an advantage.


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Almost always go Marth against everyone listed unless it's a gay stage or I just got 3-stocked game1 and my CP was banned. In that case, I do have a backup secondary that I whip out if I must. Falco.


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Except for IC's (which I need to find a solution to because they **** my marth), Falco does better in every matchup marth has thats a disadvantage/even. All of marth's evens become an advantage and all of marth's disadvantages become even/advantage.

Add that with the fact that I actually enjoy using falco and know how he works, my entire matchup chart gets covered already (exception IC's).

So for me personally, I see no reason to learn a big portion of the cast for every matchup. Getting it down to 2 characters seems much more logical if its covering the entire cast.

Or you could just use MK and Marth. Advantage on everyone.

I'm assuming that metaknight isn't the answer for everyone lol.

/i'llneverturntothedarkside

you should use ROB for IC's, I know they can overcome it, but better than average ROB > better than average IC's everytime in my experience and even pro IC's can have difficulty if your spacing is good and I know yours is good Nike since you main marth

For Ike, MK is definitely a nightmare. Olimar in my opinion is tough to play with if you're trying to just beat Ike. MK seems like an easier character to handle.

iLight said:

you should use ROB for IC's, I know they can overcome it, but better than average ROB > better than average IC's everytime in my experience and even pro IC's can have difficulty if your spacing is good and I know yours is good Nike since you main marth

Click to expand...

I will never forget Hylian vs the first time Gnes ever used ROB.

I see Magik lurking this thread. The Texas CP master

I use Marth for pretty much everything, except for maybe a couple of FD matchups where I'll go Falco. If I don't like that, I'll use Snake, but mine is trash, so that's pretty much only on people I know I'll beat but don't want to work hard. I haven't fought Ice Climbers in a long time, but now, I'll probably use Snake and MK if I lose the first game.

I'll go Ganon if they're low tier, or I think the matchup might be fun.

I wonder if people log out of their smashboards accounts to lurk threads

@Nike remember when I stayed at your place and Hylian stayed up till like 4am trying to beat my ROB with IC's and not succeeding once lol

If posting is too much work for a lurker, I imagine logging out and logging back in would be even more. Although, I do admit, I never thought of that x)

Everyone's list should look like this:

yes but that doesn't give you the 'biggest' advantage in every matchup and a lot of people are not comfortable enough to play metaknight considering how much experience everyone has against him now

iLight said:

yes but that doesn't give you the 'biggest' advantage in every matchup and a lot of people are not comfortable enough to play metaknight considering how much experience everyone has against him now

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You shouldn't need the "biggest" advantage. A typical 55:45 should be enough. As for experience vs. MK...
If the character is a threat to MK and is used in tournies, MKs will likely have about as much practice against them as they do against MKs, plus an inherent advantage.

Really, just go full MK. If you use him at all and don't main him, you're really just kidding yourself.

iLight said:

yes but that doesn't give you the 'biggest' advantage in every matchup and a lot of people are not comfortable enough to play metaknight considering how much experience everyone has against him now

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Relying so much on matchup inexperience is the reason sonics still have results.

We've been telling them to dtilt for years but people just dont listen...

Also ima participate in this self indulgent thread. Might be worth noting I dont play 1vs1 in tournaments but I still do everything I can to win in any match I play lol.

This is how it would look like realistically for me...

Spoiler

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But to try out your system...

Spoiler

Mains: Almost all chicks and two others being and

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Needless to say I still HEAVILY rely on Peach... But that makes sense I guess?

that looks like a fun set of characters you got their brownie!

@yaay, its ok to still heavily rely on a character that your comfortable with, clearly I do with ROB and sheik, though part of it is also to try to figure out new things for the match ups you struggle with the most for me thats players who are strong with though some of my problem is that I want the glory of beating a strong player with sheik or just not choosing the character I'm best a match up. But good job trying to step outside your comfort zone in the name of getting better

Not sure exactly but it might look like this

For me it would be something like:

Hopefully this is concise enough lol

I would probably go something like this

I see a lot of holes as far as trying to gain match-up advantage, I'd also like to throw out there that as I was thinking about it, this theory would most often come in handy when counter picking someone, so say you lost to a D3 you could then have Falco ready to counterpick him to some flat stage where you could chain grab/camp him to death, or visa versa if they counter pick you to a gay stage countering your character you have another character ready that also has the advantage against them ready to switch to

You wouldn't go D3 vs Wolf? You would choose Sheik over D3? Bad cp.

My list (In order of first choice character) Opponent's characters vs my characters:
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Note, I only use Wolf/Mk in tourney. Mk only for D3, Falco, and Pikachu. Thank god Mk exists to make people NOT use these 3 characters.

iLight said:

I see a lot of holes as far as trying to gain match-up advantage, I'd also like to throw out there that as I was thinking about it, this theory would most often come in handy when counter picking someone, so say you lost to a D3 you could then have Falco ready to counterpick him to some flat stage where you could chain grab/camp him to death, or visa versa if they counter pick you to a gay stage countering your character you have another character ready that also has the advantage against them ready to switch to

Click to expand...

would just like to note that as far as my list goes, I have only 1 disadvantage MU (:mk
and 8 even MUs ( )

but i also see holes in these, why use diddy against TL, Pit and Ike when you can be using MK who is each of those chars worst MU

Ranor469 said:

would just like to note that as far as my list goes, I have only 1 disadvantage MU (:mk
and 8 even MUs ( )

but i also see holes in these, why use diddy against TL, Pit and Ike when you can be using MK who is each of those chars worst MU

Click to expand...

sorry i didn't specify, i was mostly talking about some of the ones who posted after you

@seagull, If you ever went sheik instead of wolf against wario, it is actually not very easy in any way from my experience good warios do extremely well vs sheik, i'd just play mk if ROB didn't work probably

I don't know, actually, nvm. I think I'll just keep working and seeing where I'm at before I jump to conclusions.