Alternative LGL rules -discussion

I'm well aware that people have been throwing around a bunch of alternative LGLs, some of which seem plausible (some not so much)

IMO I'd propose a LGL rule that would implement the following

- You may not grab the ledge 4 times in a row without being hit or giving a hit. (number of LGs can change if not seen fit)
possible adjustments to the rule such as
- Getting hit by a projectile does not count as damage (for obvious reasons)
- shield pressure on the ledge and being pushed off may need to be dealt with in a different manner

Pros:
- it allows some characters who rely on the ledge to successfully maneuver while still avoiding getting ***** by the current LGL.
-relatively easy to keep track of, unlike our current LGL which involves players counting LGs throughout the WHOLE GAME

Cons:
-"I grabbed the ledge 3 times and accidently grabbed a 4th time" etc.
-basically causes form a slight adjustment on how players think such as losing an option after their 3rd LG in succession (forcing them to get on the stage)

Proabably more flaws. I'm open to see other ideas that can be discussed...and I'm mad lazy, if there's another thread with this purpose for the LGL by all means let me know and lock this and I'll copy pasta aha

...not another one of these...just post your idea in Jebus's thread. Hopefully you will put up a better and more intelligent fight than he did.

That thread just kinda turned into an off topic **** show :/ which I can probably expect from this, but I'll try to stay on task as much as possible

does this include hitting a shield? what about them hitting your shield?

if I'm planking 3 times and then do a normal get up, but they f-smash me and I shield it which leads me to fall off ONTO the ledge, I just lost

doesn't matter. terrible rule

R.E.G.I.S. MK-5 said:

does this include hitting a shield? what about them hitting your shield?

if I'm planking 3 times and then do a normal get up, but they f-smash me and I shield it which leads me to fall off ONTO the ledge, I just lost

doesn't matter. terrible rule

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That is a part I'm willing to discuss for sure,
I'm unsure as to whether reset the count or reduce it or simply not to count it as the 4th LG if forced from shield pressure

R.E.G.I.S. MK-5 said:

does this include hitting a shield? what about them hitting your shield?

if I'm planking 3 times and then do a normal get up, but they f-smash me and I shield it which leads me to fall off ONTO the ledge, I just lost

doesn't matter. terrible rule

Click to expand...

xIblisx said:

...not another one of these...just post your idea in Jebus's thread. Hopefully you will put up a better and more intelligent fight than he did.

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Reasons why I said put in it Jebus's thread.

1. The mods are just going to lock this.
2. R.E.G.I.S.
3. Going back and forth and two seperate threads that are discussing the same topic is pointless
4. Me.

To add on to what R.E.G.I.S. said, what if some one with a windbox pushed me back onto the edge. I lose the game for trying to avoid such a low LGL and I was forced to break it without taking damage or intentionally going for the ledge a 4th time.

xIblisx said:

Reasons why I said put in it Jebus's thread.

1. The mods are just going to lock this.
2. R.E.G.I.S.
3. Going back and forth and two seperate threads that are discussing the same topic is pointless
4. Me.

.

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I am the Replicant Engineered for Galactic Infiltration and Sabotage mark 5. I cannot be stopped.

"R.E.G.I.S. is invincible, no weapon forced by such a primitive species can defeat the R.E.G.I.S. ........which is invincible"

"do not panic, you will all die"

"I AM R.E.G.I.S.! Unstoppable! Merciless! Glorious! Invincible! you cannot defeat R.E.G.I.S."

R.E.G.I.S. MK-5 said:

I am the Replicant Engineered for Galactic Infiltration and Sabotage mark 5. I cannot be stopped.

"R.E.G.I.S. is invincible, no weapon forced by such a primitive species can defeat the R.E.G.I.S. ........which is invincible"

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Why didn't I "inb4" this?

san3711 said:

Eh, do not want (what is in the OP). There are times where I pressure someone's invincibility on the ledge, so it is unsafe to get off the ledge for a while until they see the appropriate opening. Same if I am on the ledge sometimes.

First, we need to decide for what characters are profusely grabbing the ledge unacceptable, and what they do to make it unacceptable.

MK: planking
DK: upB
???

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as we all know we simply cannot create a rule that only targets mk (many have tried)
from what I'm hearing this inability to work around shield pressure with this LGL seems to be the main cause for concern.

someone help me out with this one xD
*hires debater
(this was to simply point out a different paradigm vs the thought that LGLs must be counted in the final sum rather than counting LGs in succesion)

billybeegood said:

as we all know we simply cannot create a rule that only targets mk (many have tried)
from what I'm hearing this inability to work around shield pressure with this LGL seems to be the main cause for concern.

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The Unity Ruleset targets MK for TWO rules. One for use of IDC being banned, the other for the LGL being less than for the rest of the cast.

Your rule won't work out simply because it's rather difficult to enforce, among other problems. I don't think TOs are going to want to sit and watch MK matches all day to make sure the MK grabs the ledge only 3 times instead of 4. Then that brings up the question of why make it only 3 grabs, why not 2 grabs? Why not 5 grabs? The problems go on.

I agree with San on this. First it would be nice to know what characters are actual problems on the ledge, and if these problems are really problems. It's obvious MK is a problem, but it's not fully clear yet if other characters are truly a problem. Frame data on other characters suggests MK's is the only truly broken planking, but there are more factors than frame data to it.

Hmmm... the primary reason we have an LGL is because of MK. Even with the LGL, he's obviously broken, so it's not doing it's job really well. We need an alternative. However, this isn't it.

EpixAura said:

Hmmm... the primary reason we have an LGL is because of MK. Even with the LGL, he's obviously broken, so it's not doing it's job really well. We need an alternative. However, this isn't it.

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It's debatable how broken MK really is. The reason we have a LGL isn't because MK is broken, it's because MK is broken on the ledge.

Bizkit047 said:

It's debatable how broken MK really is. The reason we have a LGL isn't because MK is broken, it's because MK is broken on the ledge.

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SF2 Akuma isn't broken, he's just broken when using air fireball.

Lol Steam, have you seen the rest of the character? He is really borderline even without it

One issue that this completely neglects is enforceability. Specifically, I hit the ledge a 4th time... I'm not going to honestly admit it and say I lost. You call the judge over... And he sees me on the ledge. Hypothetically (and due to lack of proof), he has to assume that that was my first ledgegrab. If I'm not already off the ledge by then. And of course, you can't just pause randomly... doing that will lead to stock/game/match loss.

Isn't it against the rules to pause anyways?

Brought that up.

I usee wiiwhuck and I can pause even if you turn pause off.

Get @ me.

I'ma look at the cons again:
~Very hard to enforce in the middle of a match. (it's easy enough to enforce if the replay is recorded, just rewatch.)
~"-basically causes form a slight adjustment on how players think such as losing an option after their 3rd LG in succession (forcing them to get on the stage)"
~"does this include hitting a shield? what about them hitting your shield?

if I'm planking 3 times and then do a normal get up, but they f-smash me and I shield it which leads me to fall off ONTO the ledge, I just lost"

Technically, the last one isn't a con, it's just undecided. If you go with "yes, hitting shields resets the count", then problem solved. If you go with "no, hitting shields does not reset the count", then the player just has to know that it's a thing that can happen. Ignorance of a rule will not grant you any sympathy.

"But this cuts down on the options of other characters." Yep. Which is balls. Which leads me to down there V V V

billybeegood said:

as we all know we simply cannot create a rule that only targets mk (many have tried)

Click to expand...

Why not? MK is obviously the problem, no one else is that much of a problem on the ledge, why not attempt to fix it?

Apply LGLs only to MK, and you remove the issue of the rule messing up other characters that have limited options on the ledge as it is.

Steam said:

SF2 Akuma isn't broken, he's just broken when using air fireball.

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Invincible legs.
red fireball
Dizzy combo's etc etc