Match-up Discussion 4 - Mario

Sky Pirate · Apr 12, 2011

MARIO

Advantage/Disadvantage: 0

With an array of tricky moves, Jumpman can be difficult to understand.
Mario is a character that can be difficult to fight without match-up experience.
What can he do to us?

We need the following information:

-STAGES-
"Best" starters for Oli:
"Worst" starters for Oli:
"Best" counterpicks for Oli:
"Worst" counterpicks for Oli:

Notable "move beats move" situations:

Opponent's primary tools:
How we can deal with opponent's primary tools:

Anything else:
(This section includes gimmicks, minor notes, and anything else that isn't covered)

Don't restrict conversation to just these points.
These are just guidelines to help discussion.
Discuss!

Sky Pirate · Apr 12, 2011

I'm sorry, but I'm really tired.
I'll post more later.

A2ZOMG · Apr 12, 2011

It's like 55/45 Olimar overall. Olimar wins through playing offense. Actually camping and playing keepaway in this matchup doesn't work very well, since Mario shrugs off Pikmin easily with D-air and Cape. You're better off rushing down Mario with Smashes and aerials than you are camping in most of this matchup. Once you hit Mario above you, you can juggle him with grab for some nice reward.

You generally don't want to have to shield against Mario, which he will try to force through spacing his fireball approach, since it beats pivot grab. Shielding against Mario is extremely bad for Olimar in this matchup, since he doesn't really have many options to get Mario off once Mario gets in. U-smash oos here and there is alright if his spacing isn't on point.

The other thing you don't want...don't let Mario get a lead in this matchup especially on platformed stages. It's not particularly hard for Mario to win this matchup via timeout if he acquires a reasonable lead on a stage like BF. Just doing basic things like jumping out of shield, B reverse fireballs, Olimar loses a LOT of options if he lets Mario camp on a lead. On the flip side, Olimar always has to make sure he's playing on point, because a mistake anywhere on the screen can result in a comeback if Mario goes for a clutch juggle combo into a gimp that works. Speaking of Mario's juggles, they're obviously really good on Olimar given how floaty he is. Like Luigi, Mario has legit Jab cancel combos on Olimar.

All in all this matchup at its basics will break down into an intense spacing war where Mario and Olimar are competing for the space to create safe approaches that they can get massive reward off of. Very fun matchup for the most part. Liable to take at least 5 minutes if played properly, but a lot happens.

Stages that Mario does better on: PS1, Brinstar, Delfino. All of them have pretty favorable platform layout for the most part for Mario. PS1 has a lot of space, which is something Mario likes in this matchup. Brinstar isn't huge, but Mario has the 2nd best platform control in the game on Brinstar (only bested by Metaknight), and the lava rises are more helpful for Mario than Olimar. Delfino tends to have odd terrain that works better for Mario than Olimar.

I think that covers most of what matters.

DtJ XeroXen · Apr 12, 2011

Don't let Mario go to Battlefield.

steep · Apr 12, 2011

If the mario player can keep track of your pikmin order, this matchup can be a little bit more in mario's favor. Not sure what the numbers are, I'm just pointing out that if the mario can keep track of your pikmin order, he is more likely to be able to read you/predict which move is coming next.

steep · Apr 12, 2011

A2ZOMG said:
Delfino tends to have odd terrain that works better for Mario than Olimar.

You don't want to take Olimar to Delfino. He has a higher chance of getting purples there and also has some pretty messed up George of the Jungle swinging shenanigans.

EDIT: Sorry for the double post.

Matador · Apr 12, 2011

I'd rather him have Purples than Red...

Anyways, a few match-up specific tidbits:

Cape and Fludd affect Olimar during whistle super armor...making them viable against Olimar's recovery.
Mario's Nair beats the majority of Olimar's attacks in priority. This includes Usmash from all pikmin. This does not include Uair from most angles though.
If Mario hit's Olimar's shield with a weak SHNair, the following jab will hit before Olimar's shieldgrab comes out. The only way for Olimar to win in that scenario is to consciously wait for the jab, or just don't let Mario nair your shield in the first place.
Olimar's Fsmash will beat Mario's planking. Spaced properly, it cuts off many of Mario's options from the ledge.

I believe this match-up is 55:45 Olimar's favor.

Dnyce · Apr 12, 2011

Beware of his OHKO. Post more later

Inferno3044 · Apr 12, 2011

Camping with Olimar vs. Mario will be long because Mario can get pikmin off fairly easily and fireballs will cancel out all non-red pikmin (possibly purple but I don't remember) and Mario really can't do anything to force an approach on Olimar. Fireballs are slow and you can easily power shield them. Punishing Mario while he is getting off pikmin is really good. I personally think if both players camp, Olimar will eventually have the lead but A2 thinks differently. You can definitely camp Mario when you have a sizable lead and punish his approaches. PS the fireball and punish whatever he does on your shield. If he doesn't approach with a fireball in front, pivot grab works fine. Olimar has a lot of things over Mario such as damage racking and kill power, but the conventional "just throw pikmin and run" won't necessarily work 100% of the time. Also if Mario gets in Olimar's face, a lot of **** goes down. All in all it's about 55:45 Olimar's favor.

Stages: Basically just ban Brinstar. From what I've heard Olimar isn't good there and Mario is. For starter stages, chances are the Mario will ban FD so Yoshi's or SV is a good option to start. On your CP, take Mario to either FD or Halberd. Low ceiling + more purples = ****. FD is just a good Olimar stage and a fairly bad Mario stage.

A2: I know your opinions as we have debated this so many times I get bored debating on this topic and what you say definitely makes it sound like this MU is in Mario's favor. You basically said "Olimar wins by dong this" and then you say all these things that give Mario the edge.

Sky Pirate · Apr 13, 2011

Oh wow, Marios are really helpful.
Thank you all very much. ^_^

1. From what I understand of what you guys have been saying, camping in this match-up is all about very careful spacing.
The best way to camp in this match-up is to remain at mid-range, powershield the fireballs, and either Usmash OoS, Fsmash/Grab, or SideB to punish (depending on his spacing).
Is this correct?

2. So Mario should approach with a Fireball or he can be pivot grabbed. That's not surprising at all with our stupid range.
Powershielding Fireballs and waiting for the Nair to jab before punishing is an option for dealing with Fireball approaches, no?
Can we Usmash OoS between taking a Nair on shield and the jab?

3.
-STAGES-
"Best" starters for Oli: FD, YI, SV
"Worst" starters for Oli: BF, ?, ?
"Best" counterpicks for Oli: Halberd, FD
"Worst" counterpicks for Oli: Brinstar, BF

I'm leaving Delfino off because it seems to be debatable.
It does give us a bit of room to work with and good pluck percentages.
Does anyone know if the weird angles make it harder for Mario to reflect our pikmin back?

And for any Marios interested, the sand on the beach part and the cloth awning both give us extra reds. :3

I'm not saying that this is all I got out of everything everyone said. I'm just listing stuff that pertains to my questions.
The full summary will include everything that was said about F.L.U.D.D., defeating his planking, etc.
I had a few more questions, but I can't remember any of them right now. :<

Cracker1204 · Apr 13, 2011

camping vs mario isnt half bad, just keep a sense of fireballs and keep throwing your ****, mario will get some pikmin damage eventually and he will approach.

Inferno3044 · Apr 13, 2011

CloverLeaf said:
Oh wow, Marios are really helpful.
Thank you all very much. ^_^

1. From what I understand of what you guys have been saying, camping in this match-up is all about very careful spacing.
The best way to camp in this match-up is to remain at mid-range, powershield the fireballs, and either Usmash OoS, Fsmash/Grab, or SideB to punish (depending on his spacing).
Is this correct?

Mid-long range sounds good on Olimar's behalf. Mid range has a chance of punishing Mario's dair which he uses to get pikmin off of him and long range keeps you safer from fireballs. Mario wants close range.

2. So Mario should approach with a Fireball or he can be pivot grabbed. That's not surprising at all with our stupid range.
Powershielding Fireballs and waiting for the Nair to jab before punishing is an option for dealing with Fireball approaches, no?

Can we Usmash OoS between taking a Nair on shield and the jab?

I agree. The only way Mario's nair outprioritizes some attacks like Usmash is if it's sour spotted iirc. If he's holding out nair then trying to read a Usmash, pivot grab beats it.

3.
-STAGES-
"Best" starters for Oli: FD, YI, SV
"Worst" starters for Oli: BF, ?, ?
"Best" counterpicks for Oli: Halberd, FD
"Worst" counterpicks for Oli: Brinstar, BF

I'm leaving Delfino off because it seems to be debatable.
It does give us a bit of room to work with and good pluck percentages.
Does anyone know if the weird angles make it harder for Mario to reflect our pikmin back?

And for any Marios interested, the sand on the beach part and the cloth awning both give us extra reds. :3

I've been told Lylat is not the best stage for Olimar. If that's true put Lylat under worst starters. With BF, Xero just loves BF and will take any character there so his input on that is opinionated. Also for worst CPs, I'd put Rainbow. I'd totally take an Olimar there.

Cracker1204 said:
camping vs mario isnt half bad, just keep a sense of fireballs and keep throwing your ****, mario will get some pikmin damage eventually and he will approach.

Basically this. If you and Mario camp you will rack up more damage but we can easily get pikmin off before too much damage happens at once. If you get a decent percent lead feel free to camp.

Juushichi · Apr 13, 2011

Gotta agree with Crack and Inferno on that too. For me in my experience, what Olimar chooses to do early kinda dictates the pace of the match.

If he's mindlessly camping, then it's kinda easy to get in. But if you're mobile and cutting off approach vectors then it's pretty hard to get in. Getting a sizable percent lead makes Mario quite a bit nervous I think, because we'll have to resort for less safe things to get in.

A +1 for Oli sounds like the most accurate thing really.

Like some others have said, really watch how you recover against Mario. Like Hilt told me before, it's a rock-paper-scissors game. If we guess right, it could very well be a stock.

Matador · Apr 13, 2011

Inferno3044 said:
Basically this. If you and Mario camp you will rack up more damage but we can easily get pikmin off before too much damage happens at once. If you get a decent percent lead feel free to camp.

I actually disagree if Mario's just caping. If he's trying to toss fireballs in between, then yeah (unless they're mid-range) Olimar wins.

However, if Mario's committing to just caping, then he wins. You have to remember that cape also knocks pikmin off of his body along with reflecting. It doesn't even require much timing since the reflection "hitbox" lingers for so long.

If Olimar were to spend 5 seconds of the match tossing pikmin while Mario spammed cape, Olimar would undoubtedly take more damage.

That's why mid-range is so much better for Olimar in this match-up. From there, he can adequately punish cape's ending lag.

Inferno3044 · Apr 13, 2011

Matador said:
I actually disagree if Mario's just caping. If he's trying to toss fireballs in between, then yeah (unless they're mid-range) Olimar wins.

However, if Mario's committing to just caping, then he wins. You have to remember that cape also knocks pikmin off of his body along with reflecting. It doesn't even require much timing since the reflection "hitbox" lingers for so long.

If Olimar were to spend 5 seconds of the match tossing pikmin while Mario spammed cape, Olimar would undoubtedly take more damage.

That's why mid-range is so much better for Olimar in this match-up. From there, he can adequately punish cape's ending lag.

Fair enough but anyone spamming a projectile at a reflector is dumb. It's like shooting a charged shot at a Fox that's been holing reflector for a 5 seconds. It's just not a smart idea. Also I doubt from long range they will reach Olimar. He definitely does better mid range than long range.

Kanzaki · Apr 13, 2011

I've been playing against Brian H, possibly the 2nd best Olimar in SoCal(being behind Richbrown of course). I am one of the more defensive/campy Mario mains, but when I try to be defensive against Olimar, I get destroyed.

However, I've gotten some wins off Brian H by being a combination of aggression and defensiveness. I had to mix it up a lot, especially considering Vato_Break never gotten a win off Brian H using his Mario, and Vato's one of the more aggressive Mario's that I know of.

The way I see it, it's a rock paper scissors match:
Mario camp, Aggressive Olimar wins.
Olimar camp + Mario camp, Olimar wins.
Olimar Camp, Aggressive Mario wins.
Aggresive Olimar + Aggressive Mario.. really depends on the player from there.

Mario does have the tools to edge guard Olimar, but Olimar also have the tools to make it back to the stage. What the Mario would have to do is pretty much force the Olimar to use all his tools up, and end up forcing to Up+B. This is pretty much done by straight mind gaming, and reading your opponent.

Inferno3044 · Apr 13, 2011

Kanzaki said:
I've been playing against Brian H, possibly the 2nd best Olimar in SoCal(being behind Richbrown of course). I am one of the more defensive/campy Mario mains, but when I try to be defensive against Olimar, I get destroyed.

However, I've gotten some wins off Brian H by being a combination of aggression and defensiveness. I had to mix it up a lot, especially considering Vato_Break never gotten a win off Brian H using his Mario, and Vato's one of the more aggressive Mario's that I know of.

The way I see it, it's a rock paper scissors match:
Mario camp, Aggressive Olimar wins.
Olimar camp + Mario camp, Olimar wins.
Olimar Camp, Aggressive Mario wins.
Aggresive Olimar + Aggressive Mario.. really depends on the player from there.

Mario does have the tools to edge guard Olimar, but Olimar also have the tools to make it back to the stage. What the Mario would have to do is pretty much force the Olimar to use all his tools up, and end up forcing to Up+B. This is pretty much done by straight mind gaming, and reading your opponent.

I agree with this. Olimar's recovery is fairly bad but it's underrated. If you have a couple of purples you should be fine. I got gimped by a purple pikmin throw once. Brood did it to me at Apex.

steep · Apr 13, 2011

One thing about reflecting olimar's pikmin back at him, the olimar won't have to take any damage from the reflected pikmin (with the exception of purples) because he can just whistle to get them off. I guess a good mind game mario could incorporate would be possibly reflecting pikmin at midrange and waiting for the whistle to come out, and punishing the whistle.

Matador · Apr 14, 2011

steep said:
One thing about reflecting olimar's pikmin back at him, the olimar won't have to take any damage from the reflected pikmin (with the exception of purples) because he can just whistle to get them off. I guess a good mind game mario could incorporate would be possibly reflecting pikmin at midrange and waiting for the whistle to come out, and punishing the whistle.

True, but their reaction time has to be pretty good to whistle between the pikmin latching on to Olimar and actually landing at hit on Olimar.

Olimar also can't be in the middle of another pikmin toss either.

Heavy Theorycraft Alert: Also, the Olimar has to be wary of where Mario is before he decides to whistle, since Mario can now use this as an opportunity to approach, especially if Olimar is whistling everytime a pikmin latches.

Either way, I see your point. Camping isn't heavily rewarded on either side in this match-up anyway. Mario's camping depends entirely on whether or not Olimar wants to...because fireballs suck in that department.

Sky Pirate · Apr 14, 2011

There's also the option of just Nairing a reflected pikmin off.
Doesn't do a whole lot of damage to the pikmin or leave us all that vulnerable.

A2ZOMG · Apr 14, 2011

Inferno3044 said:
A2: I know your opinions as we have debated this so many times I get bored debating on this topic and what you say definitely makes it sound like this MU is in Mario's favor. You basically said "Olimar wins by dong this" and then you say all these things that give Mario the edge.

To be frank, I think Olimar has to work harder than Mario in this matchup. He wins if he plays correctly, but mistakes on his part are more unaffordable. Mario can punish Olimar HARD for any mistakes Olimar makes, whether it's Olimar letting Mario get away with a free approach, getting comboed, or getting gimped offstage. And when Mario has the lead, the matchup is by far in his favor since he keeps away from Olimar REALLY well.

My post is targeted to help the Olimar players learn what they should be looking out for, which is the most important part of learning this matchup. I see enough low level Olimar users who don't understand that they can't play keepaway in this matchup effectively when Mario shrugs it off easily, and they also miss many opportunities to rush when you consider it's generally the better option for Olimar in this matchup. Olimar wants to dominate the matchup right from the start and make sure he never lets Mario make a comeback. That's how his tools work, but if he ever slips up, it's VERY costly for him.

steep · Apr 14, 2011

@A2: I don't think this MU is as easy for Mario as you make it sound. Olimar can outspace Mario with pikmin grabs, limiting his approach options. If the Olimar is even at an average level of play, he won't be getting gimped so easily, and then it's up to who gets kills faster. And Olimar kills much earlier than Mario, and has a lot more options for kill moves. Usmash, Dsmash, Fsmash, Uthrow, Bthrow, Fair, and maybe some others make excellent kill moves for Olimar, depending on which pikmin is being used. Olimar can put enough pressure on Mario with pikmin throws to force an approach, despite what you may think. I have fought Hilt several times, and Olimar is a strong second character for me, and I feel pretty confident in my knowledge of how both characters play. I just have a hard time agreeing with a lot of what you are saying. I just don't see it.

Inferno3044 · Apr 14, 2011

steep said:
I feel pretty confident in my knowledge of how both characters play. I just have a hard time agreeing with a lot of what you are saying. I just don't see it.

I've been saying this to him longer than you have my friend.

steep · Apr 14, 2011

Inferno3044 said:
I've been saying this to him longer than you have my friend.

Glad someone else feels that way.

A2ZOMG · Apr 14, 2011

I never said the matchup was easy for Mario. If you're trying to say I implied it was, you're not taking me literally enough.

You never have to be forced into approaching Olimar recklessly, especially if you have the lead. Getting the lead is the only problem, but Olimar doesn't really have the tools to chase Mario down if Mario camps on a lead. Mistakes are more unaffordable for Olimar, but he dominates you offensively. His grab is only a threat as a juggle or blitzing option to be frank. If you're letting that stop you from approaching, you need to rethink how you play the matchup. The only time Olimar gives me trouble is when he's rushing down. From the neutral position you rarely have to worry about his Pikmin tosses when you can simply just fullhop D-air and Cape a lot to practically never take damage from his Pikmin. You just need to make sure you have a lot of space to start up fireball approaches once you find a gap between his moves (one reason why PS1 is a good stage for Mario in this matchup).

For Mario, the matchup is won by getting the lead. For Olimar, the matchup is won by minimizing mistakes. I'm almost certain you do actually have slight adv against Olimar on PS1 and Brinstar, and I personally like Delfino against Olimar as well since I see Mario benefiting more from the terrain due to his style of camping and spacing. All other stages slight adv Olimar, maybe 6/4ish Olimar on FD. But he loses convincingly on most platformed stages if he drops the lead.

Inferno3044 · Apr 14, 2011

I am taking you literally, but what I'm getting from you is I can land the first strike and then more or less camp the rest of the match and win according to your logic because somehow Mario can run away for 8 minutes an any stage that's not FD. What I'm wondering is what is stopping Olimar from camping mid range and punishing when you take off the pikmin? I honestly think that this should be an aggressive match on both sides. Kanzaki summarized it perfectly on how it goes.

Also something not mentioned in this discussion: whistle is gay.

Kanzaki · Apr 14, 2011

This conversation: a2z plays bad olimars.

Sky Pirate · Apr 14, 2011

Okayyyyyy, okayyyyyyy, I really don't want this turning into a flame war.

Have any other Olimars actually been reading this and can contribute?
To be quite honest, I don't know anything (other than what has been said here) about the match-up.

steep · Apr 14, 2011

I feel like Logic and Hilt would be good resources to ask about this MU as far as Olimar mains go. I don't know if they are around enough to post though.

Juushichi · Apr 14, 2011

Haha. Hilt hates playing Mario. Hopefully he pops in.

I got pooped on by L_Cancel when we played at an older Nope's tourney.

Matador · Apr 14, 2011

CloverLeaf said:
Okayyyyyy, okayyyyyyy, I really don't want this turning into a flame war.

Don't worry, I doubt it'll get to that point (unless Kanzaki keeps ****ing with A2). We've argued this before on our boards and basically disagree on how Mario should approach this match-up; defensively or aggresively.

Just know that both playstyles have their merits for Mario in this match-up, and that Olimar can influence which playstyle he uses based on who has the lead, the stage, and how close/far Olimar is from Mario onstage.

Kanzaki · Apr 15, 2011

Not really ****ing with him, just stating facts :D

My Olimar punching bag - Brian H, possibly 2nd best Olimar in SoCal, and often plays with Vato Break.
Inferno's Olimar punching bag - someone I don't really care to find out who. But he stated before who he plays with.
A2Z's punching bag - His friends.

Soooooo just saying, myself and Inferno actually had REAL opponent experience... Not just "theory crafting" crap.

I'm not saying this is how you should play this character or that character, that's for the player to decide how they want to play their character. I'm just stating what worked for me, and what I observed, during my matches against Brian H.

If Olimar boards wants more of an insight from a Mario perspective who has real experience, and not just make believe stuff, I suggest either from Vato break, who has 2 Olimars in his crew I believe, or XeroXen, who plays with Hilt(I think?).

Sky Pirate · Apr 15, 2011

Hilt is retired, never to play Brawl again.
Logic randomly swoops in on a chandelier and vanishes just as suddenly with a hearty battle-cry.

Inferno3044 · Apr 15, 2011

Kanzaki said:
Not really ****ing with him, just stating facts :D

My Olimar punching bag - Brian H, possibly 2nd best Olimar in SoCal, and often plays with Vato Break.
Inferno's Olimar punching bag - someone I don't really care to find out who. But he stated before who he plays with.
A2Z's punching bag - His friends.

Soooooo just saying, myself and Inferno actually had REAL opponent experience... Not just "theory crafting" crap.

I'm not saying this is how you should play this character or that character, that's for the player to decide how they want to play their character. I'm just stating what worked for me, and what I observed, during my matches against Brian H.

If Olimar boards wants more of an insight from a Mario perspective who has real experience, and not just make believe stuff, I suggest either from Vato break, who has 2 Olimars in his crew I believe, or XeroXen, who plays with Hilt(I think?).

The Olimar is my brother and by playing me a lot he knows the MU well. Pierce has used his Olimar for fun and it's good enough to train on. I have played other Olimar's in tourney/friendlies such as Brood, Dabuz, and Fino. I want to play Logic.

With my brother, he normally wins by successfully getting grabs. Mario has no way to force an approach on Olimar so Mario will have to approach eventually. If you give him too much space his approach will work and you will take some good damage. An aggro attempt with Olimar has no problem of working, but it can go either way and works better on an aggressive Mario. If Mario is camping you, just throw pikmin back. Chances are nothing bad will really happen

A2ZOMG · Apr 15, 2011

Inferno3044 said:
I am taking you literally, but what I'm getting from you is I can land the first strike and then more or less camp the rest of the match and win according to your logic because somehow Mario can run away for 8 minutes an any stage that's not FD. What I'm wondering is what is stopping Olimar from camping mid range and punishing when you take off the pikmin? I honestly think that this should be an aggressive match on both sides.

You're almost never going to land the first strike against Olimar. But when you do get the lead, yes it's entirely feasible to run away from him for 8 minutes and take practically no damage, or alternatively Olimar is going to be taking a hell of a lot more risks to chip at you while you don't really need to work hard at all to get him to do things that you can punish. You outmaneuver him, and his platform pressure is not outstanding.

The matchup isn't really aggressive, it's more based on proper spacing. The goal on both sides is to compete for the space necessary to create a safe approach.

kelumhi · Apr 16, 2011

A2ZOMG said:
But when you do get the lead, yes it's entirely feasible to run away from him for 8 minutes and take practically no damage, or alternatively Olimar is going to be taking a hell of a lot more risks to chip at you while you don't really need to work hard at all to get him to do things that you can punish. You outmaneuver him, and his platform pressure is not outstanding.

i would think that the only level that i could see this happening in is nosfair. on any other level we could push a mario into a corner then use a short hop B-up to hit him when he jumps over us, then by using the quick land to remove (all?) room to punish. mario might be able to get away from olimar for a while, but i dont understand how, even a stock ahead, 4 minutes of defense would be possible.

also, little off topic, does picman toss remove staleness on moves, and what about when mario capes them?

Kanzaki · Apr 18, 2011

Well, I think I'll sum it up a little bit for the Olimar boards.

Pretty much, every tournament-experienced Mario player comes in agreement. The only one that doesn't agree is the theory crafting one who doesn't goto tournaments, and only have experience with friends. And I'm pretty sure you all saw what Rich Brown said about theory crafting. Now I shall leave the Olimar boards to decide the match up, and possibly see if any other Olimar players feels like posting :]

DtJ Hilt · Apr 18, 2011

A2Z you have no idea what the hell you are talking about. I say this with not an ounce of trolling, flaming, or intent to insult. You do not know what you are talking about and nobody is going to take what you say on this matchup seriously. I am sorry.

Inferno3044 · Apr 18, 2011

Hilt said:
A2Z you have no idea what the hell you are talking about. I say this with not an ounce of trolling, flaming, or intent to insult. You do not know what you are talking about and nobody is going to take what you say on this matchup seriously. I am sorry.

Somebody finally said it.

Kanzaki · Apr 18, 2011

I've been saying it, but people assume I'm trolling/flaming/intent to insult :[

Match-up Discussion 4 - Mario

The best defense is a lot of frigging healing

The best defense is a lot of frigging healing

Smash Legend

The biggest fraud

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Maybe Even...Utopian?

Smash Master

Smash Master

The best defense is a lot of frigging healing

Smash Apprentice

Smash Master

sugoi ~ sugoi ~

Maybe Even...Utopian?

Smash Master

Smash Champion

Smash Master

Smash Lord

Maybe Even...Utopian?

The best defense is a lot of frigging healing

Smash Legend

Smash Lord

Smash Master

Smash Lord

Smash Legend

Smash Master

Smash Champion

The best defense is a lot of frigging healing

Smash Lord

sugoi ~ sugoi ~

Maybe Even...Utopian?

Smash Champion

The best defense is a lot of frigging healing

Smash Master

Smash Legend

Smash Cadet

Smash Champion

Little Lizard

Smash Master

Smash Champion

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