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The Brinstar Stage Discussion

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
4,403
Location
Houston, Texas
Brinstar Pros:

-we can stand behind the fleshy pole on the right side of the stage and shoot arrows through it due to our bow animation putting the arrow tip just on the other side but it doesn't let other projectiles come in making a great camping area.

-the hitbox distortion properties here combined with pit's multihit moveset is beast

-we can shark this stage all day quite effectively with our nair, uair, fair, and bair

-small blast zones make killing much easier especially when combined with sharking. this allows us to land our bair on heavies more successfully and the small blast zones make them die sooner.

-certain parts of the stage (including the right side platform when it's separated from the flesh pole) give us the slanted dtilt which is always nice.

-mulitiple platform layout makes juggling some character's much easier and gives us more sharking opportunity

-dash attack and dair are made into viable kill moves

The single best thing about Brinstar HANDS DOWN, is that we can refresh our moves with wingdash. Just wingdash by the pillars or the blocks on the ground and VOILA, all you're moves are 100% fresh.

Brinstar Cons:

-the small blast zones also allow us to die sooner

-the smaller fighting area limits our camping ability a good amount against a lot of characters

-Metaknight's existence

-character's with overpowered moves (Dk's fsmash for example) combined with hitbox distortion is epic scary with small blast zones

Brinstar Neutral:

it is a hazard stage. the lava here:

-can stop your gimps and save you from being gimped

-racks up damage on both players

-can kill either player

-limits player fighting space and forces air camping and cqc which is good and bad based on the matchup.


Okay guys you know the drill, time to discuss who we can counter pick here and why it is a counter pick against them. ill start us off with one i have experiance in.

Falco- we can camp the right side of the stage safely. he can't shoot us through the flesh wall, we can shoot him though. thus we take away the biggest part of his game. platform height allow us to circle camp more effectively here as well. since he has a hard time landing kill moves and is forced to box all match we should always get kills before him. however his usmash is a little buffed here due to the low ceiling so be sure to avoid it more than normal. while his jab makes boxing easier for him, good spacing combined with utilt, dtilt, slanted dtilt, and jab along with careful sharking (due to his spike) and hitbox distortion in our favor make this a viable CP on flack-oh. the only real draw back is lava stopping gimps and limiting our mobility but this can be worked around or just waited with wing refresh air camping until the lava is gone.

Diddy Kong- he can't nana combo you if you're sharking, he can't catch you if you're circle camping. you can shark crit bairs, you can't get hit by nanas behind the flesh pole. just don't be dumb and avoid his highly predictable spike when you're sharking.

DDD- he is too slow to catch us when we circle camp. sharking owns his soul. earlier kills on him because of the small blast zones. just be careful of dat utilt and avoid his on stage game. oh yeah im pretty sure that keeping the separated is great for messing up his CG, even though it's messed up already by the bubbles.

ICE CLIMBERS- they can't do anything about sharking and circle camping. timing them out and not getting grabbed is made really easy here. brinstar stuff. nuff said.

Olimar- like flack-oh, we outcamp him. that pole finally forces olimar to approach. since most olimars are based off of punishing approaches, and we win the cqc fight, this puts him at a disadvantage. plus sharking circle camping brinstar stuff. oh yeah the shape of the stage hella jacks up his grab game and if we keep the stage separated he has to put himself offstage to come to us which gives us a great gimping opportunity.

Pikachu-
-The small size of the stage makes it easier to hit Pikachu
-Pika dies earlier
-Jolts get canceled out by the breakable parts of the stage
-The lava can break your cg
-The breakable middle part of the stage can stop your fthrow cg and your ground approaches
-It's harder to get gimp/edge guard kills because the lava can save the opponent

^ Quoted directly from Kprime. Pikachu just doesn't flow here, Pit has the advantage. There aren't any cps that we would prefer specifically for pikachu so brinstar would be good vs Pika.
ill add more character CP summaries (someone describes against peach, or watevs. i don't know those MUs very well)

Thank you FYRE for this sumarry you found on brinstar's acid: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=278839

okay guys, discuss!
 

Zulo

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
549
I'm not sure Brinstar would be the best stage for Pit on very many matchups. It makes it hard for Pit to run away and play defensively since it's so small. Most KO's in high level play are made off the top blast zone, but Pit's two best kill moves go off to the sides, so a stage with a low blastzone like Brinstar would be bad in a lot of matchups. Also, Pit usually does best on flat stages for the most part, so I couldn't see him doing well on Brinstar. The hazards hardly help our recovery, as we still can't use any of our recovery options after being hit out of WoI by it, but they can help a lot of other characters. On a side note of this, if a character his the lava we should use WoI to cancel their momentum so they'll hit it again. Theoretically this could be followed by a footstool, but it's unlikely to be possible.

If Pit uses utilt on the breakable ground thing, it will cancel as soon as the first hit comes out because the ground disappears, so he goes into a fall animation. This could be used to our advantage, but it's good to know regardless.

Falco we might actually be able to take here though, since it inhibits his play as well. I don't think he can chaingrab us on the slanted platforms after the connector has been broken, but I don't know for sure. We just need to watch out for that usmash. The bottom platform is semipermiable which helps with our planking. The only place he can really effectively sh laser us is the bottom platform, but we can just move behind the connector or get on a platform. If the breakable ground parts are broken, that obviously limits his chaingrabbing too. Actually, that part might stop his chaingrab too, not sure. Since it messes up ground movement if I remember correctly.

(I personally hate this stage though and would never pick it. xD)

Oh and the Falco boards seem to think this is a good counterpick against them, with their only real advantages being refreshing their moves by lasering the pillars and a better offstage game because of the lava.
 

Luckay4Lyphe

Smash Master
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Apr 8, 2009
Messages
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Location
College Park, MD
It's a dumb stage and there are pocket metaknights galore, I don't advise cping it unless you know the person won't pick metaknight.

People I think we can take here:
Diddy Kong, Falco, DDD(maybe), ICE CLIMBERS, Olimar, Pikachu, Peach, Sonic, most low tiers

We shouldn't take here:

METAKNIGHT, Snake (utilt), Wario, GaW, TL, Kirby, DK, Luigi, Ness, Lucas, Zelda, Ganon

Everyone else is pretty much neutral or there is a better cp we can take them to.
 

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
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Dec 5, 2009
Messages
4,403
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Houston, Texas
while i disagree with it being a dumb stage, i agree with everything else you said luckay. but that's because i've always loved brinstar since melee and have a lot of practice on it. and while a lot of people have pocket metaknights, like you said if they you know they aren't gonna go MK, it's a great cp against the characters you listed. i would add ROB as it gives him no where to run from us and we thrive up close.

@zulo
while brinstar limits our arrow camping, we have 3 platforms that allow us to play an amazing hit and run circle camping game. pit is not bad at hit and run and it also has smaller side blast zones in addition to the low ceiling so our fsmash, dsmash, and bair are all buffed here as well. not to mention it makes arrow>buffered dash attack a far more deadly kill combo as the attack will kill at lower percents and that makes dash attack a far more viable kill move.

@fyre
i agree

@gadiel
try circle camping this stage with a combination of running away and wing refresh running away. it is amazing how safe we can play here with the timeout mindset. air camping rules here

@everyone
who here besides me actually practices on this stage out of curiosity? i've always used brinstar as a legit cp against people so it may just be me but personally i think pit rocks here. do other people like this stage and play it or is it really just me? of course i may just do better on this stage than most because i have a lot of practice on it so i have player preferance going for me. but like luckay said you have to be careful of pocket metaknights of course

edit: forgot to say dair is hella legit for killing people here too.

double edit:
@gadiel
i see you already were thinking that
 

Damix91

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Messages
272
Location
London, UK
You can time anyone out on brinstar apart from metaknight. Uair to shark and break the stage into and camp hard.
 

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
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Apopka Florida
@Damix In two* :troll:

Kk so ya, this is a time out stage. End of story. You should be aiming for it and pissing your opponent off. Don't take snake here. Or mk. Or someone with a pocket mk.

Diddy Kong, Falco, DDD(maybe), ICE CLIMBERS, Olimar, Pikachu, Peach, Sonic, most low tiers
I agree with all of these except pika.Fast uair, good nair, good thunder, and a few other reasons. That's too risky. Imo. Don't forget Fox. He'd pretty decent to time out here.
 

Maharba the Mystic

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except one usmash from fox will kill at like 65%-75% here. and pika isn't that great at brinstar. like he's okay, but nothing special. of course im basing this off illmatic wrecking shop at whobo3 on e$@m at brinstar. of course that was against peach so idk how well he does here vs. pit. but you may be right as he does have some good tools to use here. idk it'd probably be about even
 

dualseeker

Smash Ace
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Jun 29, 2009
Messages
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Pit: One of the greatest Heroes of our time
I hadn't realized that this stage could actually be a good CP for some characters. I always assumed it was bad due to characters being able to kill Pit easier since the blast zones are really close to the stage.

I hope I'll be able to contribute to this discussion, but I hardly ever CP anyone to Brinstar because of how easy it is to kill off the top blastzone. But I might try it out now that I know some new facts ^__^
 

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
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except one usmash from fox will kill at like 65%-75% here. and pika isn't that great at brinstar. like he's okay, but nothing special. of course im basing this off illmatic wrecking shop at whobo3 on e$@m at brinstar. of course that was against peach so idk how well he does here vs. pit. but you may be right as he does have some good tools to use here. idk it'd probably be about even
more like 90% and why are you on the ground anyways~. pika does avg here but what he has just contradicts what our goals and playstyle should be as well as limit those. Not worth it imo. Much better stages to take pika.
 

Maharba the Mystic

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more like 90% and why are you on the ground anyways~. pika does avg here but what he has just contradicts what our goals and playstyle should be as well as limit those. Not worth it imo. Much better stages to take pika.
that statement is 100% true. i concede.

anyways im especially fond of using this to CP flack-oh. we just own him so hard here i love it. he just can't camp us.

haven't really gotten a chance to do it on ICs. ill test this out next time i see smoom
 

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
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Only thing IC's have on us here is their upair. That **** is too legit haha. Well back to work. Last post in this thread. I'll check it again sunday.
 

Nitrix

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
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London, Ontario
Brinstar is an okay stage. I like taking Diddy and Falco there. Its a helpful stage for characters who hurt Pit's groundgame (MK=exception)

Pit's u-air owns the top platform, and kiilling at 80 with B-Air is just so satisfying


I never knew about that fleshy pillar though, I will definitely use that in the future :reverse:


Edit: Does anyone know how early U-Smash kills on this stage?
 

Luckay4Lyphe

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Messages
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College Park, MD
Trust me, ESAM hates brinstar with a passion. Pikachu is horrible on this stage. If the pikachu doesn't ban brinstar then they haven't experienced it yet.
 

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
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I never said it was good for pika i just don't think pika does bad here VS PIT. I'd rather take a pika to a few other places first. Instead of saying "trust me" say why and explain how it helps pit and if this stage COULD be used as a cp.
 

Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
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Messages
7,336
Let me start by saying Brinstar ****s all over pretty much the entire cast.

Pit does better here than some.

But he's no GaW or MK.

I actually vehemently hate and despise this stage.

But if you want to use it, go ahead. Just be sure that the character you CP it against does worse here than Pit. So that'd be chars like Dedede, Ganondorf, CFal, actually most low tiers come to think of it, and a number of high tiers. Olimar is **** on to a certain extent here, so long as you capitalize on the acid rising.
 

Maharba the Mystic

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ummm.... i've always wondered. do you actually use pit supreme dirt? just kinda occurred to me that you've never said you use pit but you do use TL and.... well i know you use TL. not really related to brinstar at all but all of a sudden curious.

oh ya, good point though.

WE CAN **** ON OLIMARS DAY HERE. OUT CAMP THE UN-OUTCAMPABLE BEHIND THE FLESH POLE AND ACTUALLY FORCE OLIMAR TO APPROACH.

kinda stops the biggest aspects of his gameplay as he is almost soley based on punishing approaches.
 

Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
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I like Pit, but the thing is if I played Pit I'd play him pretty Aggro, probably pretty much arrowless, since what I like about Pit is his ability to chase pretty well, and pretty good damage output. I'm almost completely offput by the lack of kill power though.
 

Maharba the Mystic

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if you do what we do and learn how to use our bair and not stale our fsmash then he doesn't lack kill power in the least good sir.

anyways back to olimar

we can out camp him, the shape of the stage would effect his grab game. we can separate the stage with dtilt (the spike box wrecks bubbles lol) or uair if wanna do it faster. then he has the risk of going in between stages where we could gimp him. plus the acid forces him be our ***** in cqc if we play it proper. honestly doesn't this seem like a good CP on oli?
 

Maharba the Mystic

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbyIHWZOuDU&feature=player_embedded

i know like everyone in this vid.

i miss my cali friends now :(
hell sake was in the vid at 1:10. the big white guy on sky's right and next to him was zex

oh well at least it kicks *** out here in texas. and the guys out here are hella awesome, but still. i miss my peeps

Edit: lol i just realized i put this in the wrong thread. oh well it don't really matter which thread it goes in i guess. ummm..... brinstar stuff. ya on topic whoot!..... uh..... XD
 

CHOMPY

Sinbad: King of Sindria
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If you hit the sticky things that are on each end with your arrows/jabs, you can refresh your moves. You can also do the same thing with those ball-shaped thingies on the right side. I would not recommend trying to arrow loop, considering how small the stage is width wise and the sticky things can get in the way as well as the platform. Don't forget that bair can kill many characters are around 100% since the width of the stage is very small, so use that to your advantage.
 

Luckay4Lyphe

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I never said it was good for pika i just don't think pika does bad here VS PIT. I'd rather take a pika to a few other places first. Instead of saying "trust me" say why and explain how it helps pit and if this stage COULD be used as a cp.
-The small size of the stage makes it easier to hit Pikachu
-Pika dies earlier
-Jolts get canceled out by the breakable parts of the stage
-The lava can break your cg
-The breakable middle part of the stage can stop your fthrow cg and your ground approaches
-It's harder to get gimp/edge guard kills because the lava can save the opponent

^ Quoted directly from Kprime. Pikachu just doesn't flow here, Pit has the advantage. There aren't any cps that we would prefer specifically for pikachu so brinstar would be good vs Pika.
 

Esca

Smash Champion
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The single best thing about Brinstar HANDS DOWN, is that we can refresh our moves with wingdash. Just wingdash by the pillars or the blocks on the ground and VOILA, all you're moves are 100% fresh.
 

Maharba the Mystic

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so does anyone else have something productive to say about this stage and the match ups it effects? if not then we are moving on. But before we move on tell if you guys wanna discuss:

castle siege
delphino plaza
halberd
or Rainbow Cruise?

pick one and ill start it off!
 

Gadiel_VaStar

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so does anyone else have something productive to say about this stage and the match ups it effects? if not then we are moving on. But before we move on tell if you guys wanna discuss:

castle siege
delphino plaza
halberd
or Rainbow Cruise?

pick one and ill start it off!
I have no clue how to fight on those stages especially rainbow :scared:
 
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