• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Falco Matchup #2: Zelda

-DR3W-

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
2,611
Location
FL.US
NNID
DrewTheAsher
Match-Up Thread #2
ZELDA

THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE SHEIK.


In this thread, post any contribution you have regarding the Zelda matchup.

Keep these in mind when posting:
- What do we have against him?
- What to watch out for?
- Certain do's & don'ts
- Any additional information or data necessary.

Go!
 

swordsaint

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
4,379
Location
Western Sydney
What do we have against her*?

- I think this matchup is 70/30. She doesn't have much on lasers, and her air game is pathetic once we start. She's a lot like Ganon in terms of how we play the match up except she's got a little bit more on her side. She can reflect lasers with her Nayru's Love, but she can't use it fast enough to reflect them all. Zelda will be forced in to approaching since neither her Nayru's Love or Din's Fire are fast enough. On shield, she can't do much against a properly spaced ftilt, and jabs speed yet again shuts this character down. Mix up your camp game with IAP's here and there to pop her up, because once that happens the momentum for Falco really starts, she has nothing from above, her D-air heel is hard to sweetspot while trying to get to the ground, especially if we're harassing her. Her airdodge is one of the worst in the game and very easy to react to and punish. Remember our frame trap u-air > any other aerial to repeatedly keep her from getting down. Her n-air is one of her best aerials, if not the best, but attacking her below makes it a null point.

There may come a time where Zelda will start trying to reach the ground using Up-B, but due to our vertical speed, it's not too much to worry about.

What she has on us, is, in a way, similar to what we have on her, but far inferior.

The fact she has many multi-hit moves makes phantasms a dangerous option in more situations than usual, though it doesn't make it bad, or even average, it's still good. When we're camping, expect dash attacks or nairs depending on the distance she's at. Her smashes can be dangerous if they hit, on Falco they can lead to many follow ups. From below Zelda is at her most dangerous. A good ground vs air game with her tilts and up smash, and a good air game from below with nair/uair to keep the juggles going.

If she manages to knock you off stage, she WILL harass you with Din's Fire depending on where you are, sometimes it may be beneficial to take damage to secure your recovery, but don't be reckless with it.

Another point is that at certain percents, her d-tilt WILL lock. I'm not sure of the percents, but I'm sure someone can be bothered visiting the Zelda boards to find them, or maybe someone knows them but it's pretty gay regardless. It's not huge, but it's there so watch out for it.
 

DJ Arcatek

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
2,373
Location
Dark Side of the Moon
I can't speak on the Zelda matchup much since I'm not that experienced. All I can say is: Watch out for smash attacks, Dtilt, and her horrible Up B.
 

Fuujin

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
2,653
Location
Double posting in ur threads.
What do we have against her*?


The fact she has many multi-hit moves makes phantasms a dangerous option in more situations than usual, though it doesn't make it bad, or even average, it's still good. When we're camping, expect dash attacks or nairs depending on the distance she's at. Her smashes can be dangerous if they hit, on Falco they can lead to many follow ups. From below Zelda is at her most dangerous. A good ground vs air game with her tilts and up smash, and a good air game from below with nair/uair to keep the juggles going.

If she manages to knock you off stage, she WILL harass you with Din's Fire depending on where you are, sometimes it may be beneficial to take damage to secure your recovery, but don't be reckless with it.
Lol screw camping, just walk up to her and jab, she can't really do anything.
Seriously that move makes this match up laughable.
But you're right about almost much everything else, Din's is too slow to counter camp his blaster, the best she can do aim Din's in an arch so that if goes toward the ground so it still explodes after she gets hit by the lasers.
All of her approaches can be blocked and punished, whether its n-air or a dash attack.
SDI her side smash(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4nuoFfza2w), you can tech her down smash, and block her up smash for a really easy punish, watch out for her up smash at low percents though, she can sometimes get Falco in it twice in a row.
Her air dodge isn't really that bad, shes just really floaty with mediocre air speed so its very hard for her to safely land back on stage but you're right about harassing her while shes in the air, best she can do is try to land a D air or hope you don't punish her air dodges.

While shes recovering she is probably going to want to avoid using Farore's wind because its a really ****ty move with a lot of lag, but if shes far away enough she doesn't have much of a choice.
Shes either gonna aim it for the ledge or onstage, either one can be dealt with.
It's best just to always hop on the ledge when shes about to disappear, that way she'll either die from getting ledge hogged or she'll land on stage.
When she lands on stage you should have enough time to punish with a ledge attack or possibly more depending on what angle she was recovering from.

Falco's best kill option is probably his Dacus, she has ****ty momentum canceling so it will kill her around 100ish, it can be stopped by d tilt while shes on the ground though so you might not want to constantly throw it out there like many Falco's do.
If you cant find an opening to land it just harass her with b air, she doesn't have any OOS options to punish it(her grab is like 12 frames) and it will kill her around 130ish onstage.
As far as stages go, Zelda doesn't really have any good CPs that are legal.
Any nuetral will do since you're going to be walking up to her and jabbing.
If you want to make things harder on her recovery wise pick Halberd, Delfino, Brinstar.

Another point is that at certain percents, her d-tilt WILL lock. I'm not sure of the percents, but I'm sure someone can be bothered visiting the Zelda boards to find them, or maybe someone knows them but it's pretty gay regardless. It's not huge, but it's there so watch out for it.
SDI out of it and it wont lock, the most it will hit you is like 3 times, just expect a follow up after it.
At lower percents it can be followed up by another d tilt, a grab, down smash, Nayru's, etc.
At like 70-80 it puts him in position for a up tilt/up smash and that has a pretty good chance to kill Falco.

In short I'd MUCH rather deal with a campy Falco than one that just walks up to her and jabs, she literally has no options against his jab, its really sad actually.:c
+3 for Falco imo.
 

Linkvader

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Messages
298
Location
BAY AREA
I hate her smashes and some of her aerials, but we have a pretty good advantage for sure. Just be campy and watch out for some of her laggy attacks.
 

teluoborg

Smash Otter
Premium
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
4,060
Location
Paris, France
NNID
teloutre
Yeah SDI out of the Dtilt lock but be prepared to DI up because she'll most likely follow up with Dsmash (which is frame 4 btw).
Be careful of shield stabbing hits, Zelda's Fsmash Usmash and Nair are pro for that.

Now I disagree on 2 things :
1-she does have goo aerials. Bair Nair and Fair are all good. Bair and Fair will kill you at 80% when sweetspotted.
2-Since she has good aerials she has good OOS options. Harass her shield with something a bit laggy and you're in for a free Fair, if not a free Usmash.
 

Gamegenie222

Space Pheasant Dragon Tactician
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
6,758
Location
Omaha, Nebraska
NNID
Gamegenie222
3DS FC
3411-1825-3363
Castle Siege may be a decent counterpick for Zelda. They would want to avoid FD of course and Japes if god knows why the TO is using that stage at their tourney. D-Smash can mess up the angle of our side-b if the Zelda predict our side-b and hit us with it. Her fair, bair, and uair can kill us in the 80's fresh. She has no safe move to combat our bair in the air which is a disadvantage for her. So this is the pro's and Con's for her.

Pro's
-She can kill us earlier than we can to her.
-She can rack up good damage with her moves and reads.
-Multi-hit moves makes side-b risky.
-Good ground game to combat us in the air and chain U-smash into another move at low percentage.

Cons
-Jab beats everything she has to offer,sorry Zelda:(
-Spaced f-tilts help us as well alot but not as good as Jab. :urg:
-We can out camp her but why camp when you can just jab, again sorry Zelda:c
-Most moves are laggy for us to punish, mainly bair.
-Crappy momentum canceling so we can kill her around 100-110%
-No good OOS options against bair also her grab is 12 frames which sucks.

Also here is a link for her hitbubbles for her moves so you frame data guys can use for this
for the MU if necessary.http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255400

Moves to watch out for from this girl.
Fair
D-smash
Bair
U-tilt
F-smash if you can't DI out of it.

Stages to avoid are Castle Siege kind of, Frigate if they know how to fight on that stage.

Stages she should avoid are FD, Brinstar if your got the guts to play Falco there, Delfino, and Halberd.

Also here is a quote of Zelda in which you guys can use that I found on the zeldauniverse.net website.

Zelda:
“Shadow and light are two sides of the same coin… One cannot exist without the other. I know now the reason the goddesses left the Mirror of Twilight in this world… They left it because it was their design that we should meet… Yes… That is what I believe.”

That is all I have to offer.
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,542
Location
RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
Jab a lot, Jab canceling repeatedly after Jab 2 I believe links on her since she's floaty. Throw her upwards a lot too, and B-air all day when she's above you. 70/30 sounds conservative, but that's mostly the right idea.

Reflector also owns her in midrange, if there is something that Jab might have trouble stopping, Reflector covers it.
 

SN Viper

Formerly 9th in FL PR
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
1,760
Location
Lake Alfred Florida
-Good ground game to combat us in the air and juggle us.
I dont think zelda can juggle falco well. Her fair bair nair and upair will not even set up juggles. The best she can really do to juggle falco is hit us up then with a good read get a listed move. the knock back on those moves is to great to juggle us and the angles will put us off stage if we get hit by one. up air will kill more then likely.
 

Gamegenie222

Space Pheasant Dragon Tactician
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
6,758
Location
Omaha, Nebraska
NNID
Gamegenie222
3DS FC
3411-1825-3363
Then it may be at low percentage then it it's not then I will quickly change that edit then.
 

Gamegenie222

Space Pheasant Dragon Tactician
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
6,758
Location
Omaha, Nebraska
NNID
Gamegenie222
3DS FC
3411-1825-3363
So you want me to edit that then cause I got most of my info from the Zelda boards regarding the MU?

Edit: would you call it a chaining a move into another move then?
 

BleachigoZX

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
3,443
Location
@legendarybleach
Zelda has a lot of "safe" pressure.

"safe" = moves that she can spam on shield and if we don't back off we'll take damage + bad position.
 

Fuujin

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
2,653
Location
Double posting in ur threads.
So you want me to edit that then cause I got most of my info from the Zelda boards regarding the MU?

Edit: would you call it a chaining a move into another move then?
My friend, NEVER go to the Zelda boards when you're seeking accurate information regarding match ups.

Zelda has a lot of "safe" pressure.

"safe" = moves that she can spam on shield and if we don't back off we'll take damage + bad position.
I wouldn't call one smash attack "a lot"...
What does she have that Jab doesn't get past other than possibly f smash?
 

Seagull Joe

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
10,388
Location
Maryland
NNID
SeagullJoe
70-30 matchup. Let her do a laggy move on shield and then punish accordingly. All of her moves are laggy as ****. We definitely out camp her. Din's fire camp is laughable at best. As long as Zelda doesn't get any hard reads, she can't reliably beat Falco.
 

Niala

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
794
Location
Amelia won't let me say
I have very little experience in this MU. The only thing I really know is reflector happy Zelda's are a pain, avoid her strong smashes, and avoid her Dtilt. Also, don't get stagespiked on Battlefield 'cause lol. I find Zelda pretty easy to kill, too. She seems really light so it's easy to kill her early with an Usmash, Bair, or even sometimes Dsmash. In my experience, though, it's hard for Zelda to hit us with anything because we outrange her and her Din's Fire is easy to avoid, and even in close most of our moveset will beat out hers. I'd say 65/35 or 70/30.
 

M@v

Subarashii!
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
10,678
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Zelda's actually my low tier main, and just keep this in mind:

-Once she's offstage, shes completely helpless. You can outright kill her once you got her offstage if you read her right. Her up B has terrible lag, and you have a lot of time to punish it.

-Goes for the ledge, you ledge hog and she either dies or you jump up and knock her back off

-Goes for stage, knock her back off.


Be wary of:

Side aerial. The sweetspot is extremely strong. If you power shield it to its pretty much a free punish.

Upsmash. I dont think falco can SDI out of it. As far as Im aware of only a few characters can.

Dtilt semi-lock->a move. Good way to rack up damage, and you do a move based on how the opponent reacts.

Fsmash can shield poke well, so if your going to shield it make sure you got a lot of shield.
 
Top Bottom