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Falco Matchup #5 Samus

Gamegenie222

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Match-Up Thread #5
Samus
This does not include Zamus or ZSS for short.


70-30 Falco's favor


Like last time folks, I am doing this cause DR3W has limited time on his hands and if he doesn't mind so here we go.

In this thread, post any information you have regarding the matchup against Samus.

Keep these in mind when posting:
- What do we have against her?
- What to watch out for?
- Certain do's & don'ts
- Any additional information or data necessary.

Now let's begin.
 

Linkvader

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Lasers, Jab, CG, Bair, and Reflector. Anything I missed?

Just watch out for fully charged Shot, and her spike. Her Zair has good range, so watch out for that. We outcamp her by a lot too.
 

Linkvader

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Samus can't do much if she can't shoot energy shots and missles at you. The reflector is the key... Along with lasers.
 

SN Viper

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Falco Should **** this mu. Our Lasors Jab and grab put this mu out of reach for samus. We can rack damage so fast on samaus it will leave them wondering what happened.

Samus is heavy but getting her to kill % is not even a challenge. Jab cancels on her are great, we can get 3 dthows on her from 0 and end it with a spike. After that we can jab gatlin combo or many other options such as regrab. at higher % when we get a grab pummel to keep moves fresh reflector is a great tool in this mu also.

zair can get annoying just dont corner yourself and you will be able to handle zair fine in this mu.

Besides zair samus can combo us fairly well with fair and up air. Her kill moves are BAD bair charge full charge shot fsmash and down tilt spike is fairly good as well. We can live to 150+ easy in this mu before falco will die. Her jab is bad our jab ***** lasors ****.

as for samus gimping us nair can hit phantasm and zair can gimp watch for charge shot while we are off stage it can put us in a bad position.

samus will put damage on us from her low % combos if we let her get them. Zair will hit us and if we hit shield on samus oos up b is a good option for her.

Falco ***** this MU 70-30 Falco or :falco: +3
 

clowsui

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jab, fsmash her randomly, reflector works as zoning tool. when you pressure her block and you fight up close with her you win pretty much all the time. camping her is also viable since she doesn't really have the speed to compete. be smart about lasers and phantasm tho cause her zair and missiles are pestilences. speaking of those two moves, it's important to powershield or to hold block for minimum amount of time possible. part of samus' pressure relies on chipped shields, especially zair since it hits fairly high and has a wide hitbox

all of samus' aerials can reliably autocancel and she also has occasional OOS (up b) that can catch you offguard. her zair and ftilt make for a decent and annoying set of zoning tools and they work pretty well at falco's dead spot, but you're fast enough to circumvent that.

her kill moves are bair, dtilt, offstage zair, fsmash, dsmash. all of these are relatively high percentage kill moves, so don't worry too much about percentages because you'll naturally try to avoid her kill stuff.

when you're juggling samus max range uair trades with dair. your bair cuts into her blindspot very neatly too :) fullhop reflector outranges everything she has and forces her to use her bad airdodge. when punishing her landing, it's best to try and phantasm to punish it or to shoot lasers if you want to play really safe. as for my playstyle i prefer mixing in different ranges of block approaches as well as the occasional roll or spotdodge; samus has problems landing safely vs falco in my experience.

bans vs samus? uhhh idk really LOL. i think that falco goes +3 vs samus though, a solid +3...whereas jiggles i could see a +1.5 (but people chose to round down :glare: )
 

Gamegenie222

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FD and BF are the main stages that I use against Samus cause I have some experience in the MU but not 100% sure on the stages we should take her to.
 
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Samus is a floaty-heavy. She will live forever, and cannot get CGed except for a single regrab after a Dthrow done at 0%(-5%?). Has to be walked, not dashed.

Her recovery is top notch too with the power bomb recovery. She can slow her decent and stay away from the stage waiting for falco to do something. She can hold her jump, UpB, and tether recovery while doing that. Suffice to say she has a lot of mix-ups she can try. She can plank the ledge fairly well too sadly.

Her attacks flow very well into each other if they make contact. However, she will have issues hitting falco. Lasers shut down her SHs which would typically be used to space missles and Zair. Trying to laser too close to samus can be bad if you are slow on getting your lasers out. Zair likely would hit you out of it if she gets into that situation.

Not really sure what Samus can do to get through falco's stuff, but I know that once she does its hard to get back to the stage. She can cover a lot of options for any phantasm recovery. Example, she can grab the ledge, and due to the Zair hitting through the ledge when coming up, she can hit far into the stage punishing recovery lag. Leaving a power bomb on stage lasts for a good second too.

There is more stuff, but this is all that is coming to mind at the moment. Overall, I would put this somewhere between neutral territory to falco advantage.
Lasers, Jab, CG, Bair, and Reflector. Anything I missed?
That's every match-up lol
 

SN Viper

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i would just ban a stage you are bad at. In this mu i would not worry too much about Brinstar i cant see samus taking us there. I would ban lylat or RC possibly delfino.

Ban
Lylat
Delfino
RC

what ever you dont feel comfortable on as falco.

i could be wrong about brin star
 

Gamegenie222

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Falco can get 3 walking CG's off on Samus from 0% then afterwards follow up with nair if you want but that is what I do most of the time or something else.
 

swordsaint

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cuople of things

samus is floaty therefore easier to kill off the top

lasers have extra stun on samus so abuse them like no tomorrow.
 

SN Viper

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Falco can get 3 walking CG's off on Samus from 0% then afterwards follow up with nair if you want but that is what I do most of the time or something else.
Ok i just finished testing it and falco CAN cg samus from 0-25% thats 3xdthrow (walking) we can also finish with a spike ending with 38%. at this point samus should be in her shield. We have tons of options after the spike. if you can manage to get spike to grab you can down throw to spike samus again. From there pick a follow up jab gatlin combo or what ever
 

-DR3W-

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Don't get spiked.

Camp.

If you get hit by the charge beam you lose respect points.
 

Linkvader

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Is there a reason for lasers having extra stun on samus? Is there other chars that have that extra stun too?
 
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Yeah, characters have different stun times from a laser. It's mostly a difference of only a few frames through. Like 6 frames stun time on MK vs 9 frames on DK. Or something like that.
 

swordsaint

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i have no idea what the reason is, but its part of the reason some characters 'eat lasers'. They have a little extra stun so they can often get comboed by the lasers. like shdl > grounded laser can chain at times.
 

Mechmainiac

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i would just ban a stage you are bad at. In this mu i would not worry too much about Brinstar i cant see samus taking us there. I would ban lylat or RC possibly delfino.

Ban
Lylat
Delfino
RC

what ever you dont feel comfortable on as falco.

i could be wrong about brin star
Why Lylat sides the platforms samus is tall and cant crawl if anything falco would have an advantage here just dont corner yourself.

Delfino dont have an opinion here

RC ban this is just from Exp but there are times falco has some pretty ****ty options here and with samus's durability she can afford to wait it out imo




all in all watch out for the D-tilt, D-air, and Charge Shot
 

Schtizzel

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Last weekend I went to a smash fest in Bavaria and there was a 15 years old kid playing Samus. I can't describe how annoying fighting against him was. Like in all the other MU's Jab, Bair, CG, Laser, Phantasm should handle it, but he knews everything about Falco.
He powershielded Jab everytime, after Jab2 he PSed and even Jab1 to Grab he could PS and Up-B me.
That Kid also spammed the whole match with ZAir, Charged Shot and both Missles - PS and Reflector handled that pretty easily.
But the most annoying was that he killed me everytime with Spikes or DTilt in every f****** impossible way. One of my mistakes that he punished was shielding right in Samus face. He waited like 1 second and then DTilt me.

But after some more matches I could find some good working tactics to beat him. Camp Samus all day long - Laser, Phantasm, Reflector. Punish her with some quick Jabs, followups but don't overuse some followups and then get yourself out of her face.
 

NO-IDea

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^^If he's powershielding jab, it means you're being too obvious with your jab attempts. You probably should have mixed it up more. If Falco's jab is frame 2, it doesn't mean he's reacting. Instead, you could have literally chosen grab as an option (frame 6), and given that shield extends the hurtbubble, you would have easily grabbed him. ^^

The skill required for a Samus to even the playing field is high. And even then, her weakness of landing the kill move is accentuated against camp play.

Reflector is good and all, but usually unnecessary. Sounds more situational and theorycraft occasionally put into practice IMO. Just stick to powershielding. The reason I say this is because reflector leaves an opening for z-air and other follow-ups depending on the distance.

Falco's spot dodge is unbelievably hard to deal with Samus' tools. Emphasis on unbelievably. I know how to deal with it, but the execution required is absurd. Pull that spot dodge out from time to time and you'll be surprised with what you can get away with.

Lasers and phantasm. Just stick to jab combo. Shield early if SDI occurs. Powershield projectiles, space yourself from z-air (and powershield->f-tilt, it's longer than you think), phantasm and repeat. Mix it up with dash attack. Phantasm, as a juggler, will naturally provide a kill set-up for b-air.

Off-stage, I shouldn't have to tell you what to do if you're semi-decent with Falco.

Overall I'd put it at +3 in Falco's favor. It's not a MU I prefer obviously. I'll **** most of you with Sheik though, f-tilt lock or not.
 

Linkvader

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I just think that Falco has a lot more better options than Samus does. Samus only has shot, missles, Dtilt, one or two of her aerials. Falco has lasers, reflector, phantasm, Jab, Ftilt, Bair, Nair... Falco has a lot more moves to use in different situations that are hard for Samus to get around or punish. I would say 65-35 Falco's favor.
 

SN Viper

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EDIT: will not feed the troll


just some info.

samus has a very good recovery. bomb jumping zair and her up b make it hard to gimp samus.
 

Gamegenie222

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I've seen what you did but I'm surprised that we only got 2 Samus players talking in this discussion.
 

DtJ Composer

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You don't really have to use reflector in this match-up, unless you just really feel a charge shot coming. There's no need to reflect homing missiles because it's just giving the Samus a chance to get at you with zair. Laser interrupts missiles!
No-ID kinda said what needed to be said though (especially considering I just read his post and it already says what I said >.>).

Honestly the only stage you probably need to avoid against samus is Lylat, but only 'cause recovery. If you don't suck at recovery you can take samus anywhere! Battlefield is our best stage but Falco isn't bad there either and stuff.
Maybe strike Delfino? Once again it just depends on if you're comfortable there.
 

Schtizzel

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You don't really have to use reflector in this match-up, unless you just really feel a charge shot coming. There's no need to reflect homing missiles because it's just giving the Samus a chance to get at you with zair.
Like you said Reflector is not needed because Laser and Jab will destroy them. Jab is so amazing against them, just jab them at jabs maximum range and there are gone.
 

SN Viper

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In this mu falco will find samus at very high % due to samus playing in zones out side of your kill moves.

In a situation like this take your time to camp samus in order to refresh your bair and working her into % that up tilt will kill at.

this will give you 2 very reliable kill moves bair hits on frame 4 and up tilt also hits on frame 4. Be careful with up tilt if you miss it you have 24 frames of cool down.
 

Linkvader

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I love Bair against Samus. It's too good... I'll try the Utilt for killing Samus, but I didn't know that Utilt is good against her.
 

PersonallyIPreferDair

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Whenever I face a Samus I try to bait a screw attack with jab. Not too many samus' do it, but if you're facing one who does this, you'll have plenty of time to punish them.
 

Gamegenie222

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If I can't get a few more people to post more info regarding the MU, I just going to try to wrap it up with a final ratio decision.
 

Linkvader

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I don't think a lot more people are going to discuss this MU. I would say that it's 60-40 or 65-35 Falco's favor.
 

Gamegenie222

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I think this is 65-35 Falco as well. I tried to get Xyro to put his opinion on this but guess that didn't worked out as I planned.
 

-DR3W-

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I will have it up in the next hour.

I knew this would go smoothly and stay active.

:phone:
 

Linkvader

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Sweet, thanks DR3W. I can't wait to see what character is next. I'm guessing Captain Falcon, but I could be wrong...
 

Gamegenie222

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Hype all right 70-30 Falco is decided and final then I shall update this immediately.
 
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