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News: Garchomp is banned from OU as of today

Zankoku

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sorry ulti, but u shouldnt bash DW the way u do.
I can understand u disliking PO DW since team non-team preview games will never exist.

But comparing landorus with sheer force with wonder tomb is incorrect. I'm not to sure how the programming works and how the PO creators found out the DW abilities for unreleased pokes but i HIGHLY doubt they just pulled it out their ***.

Don't get me wrong i love wifi too but, DW is a legitimate tier as well
The gist of it is that the Pokémon have their Dream World abilities pre-coded into them, so they're approximately as "legitimate" as Deoxys was before the event release of him; however, they lack Dream World sprites, so it's actually impossible to ever encounter them in Black or White versions, now or in the future... which implies that they won't see release until 5.1 Gen or later.

Or through some oddball event like the Eeveelutions.
 

AfroThunderRule

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Sorry for bumping this but why does Smogon get all the hate for banning Garchomp?

PO recently banned him in the Wifi and DW tier, it's not just smogon that finds Garchomp broken.

Also I was a voter in that round. (Check OP's link, 16th post)

I'll say what everyone have said, Garchomp is a very good pokemon with very few counters and those counters basically have a 80% success rate since Sand Veil basically says **** you. ****ing Bronzong shouldn't ever lose to that SubSD Garchomp, but two HP Ice misses can do that to you.

Lets say your "counter" to Garchomp is Ice Beam, what would you do if it kept missing?

Sorry for any grammatical problems. ._.
 

Zankoku

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I dunno why you're overcomplicating this.

Garchomp is banned because he is a shark. Sharks are overpowered, as everyone clearly knows.
 

UltiMario

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OH RIGHT I WAS GOING TO BUMP THIS TOPIC BECAUSE GARCHOMP GOT UNBANNED.

Sorta stupid Smogon banned Sand Veil and Snow Cloak though. Garchomp clearly wasn't broken to begin with to be banned, god how unnecessary it was to ban evasion just to try and bring him down against Smogonites scared the **** out of the thing.

So yeah.

DISCUSSIONS
 

Firus

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Really, though? They banned Snow Cloak and Sand Veil? I'm not even much involved in the competitive side of Pokémon much, but isn't that going to needlessly nerf Pokémon who aren't even borderline ban-able and make use of those abilities?
 

Wave⁂

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I have fond memories of Sand Veil SubPunch Cacturne, but at the same time, the benefits (no longer missing Ice Shards against Garchomp) are worth it.
 

UltiMario

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I have fond memories of Sand Veil SubPunch Cacturne, but at the same time, the benefits (no longer missing Ice Shards against Garchomp) are worth it.
If Ice Shard Mamoswine is your only Garchomp check on a team you deserve to lose.

Especially when Yachechomp will just tank it anyways and continue sweeping.
 

Wave⁂

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Does having three Garchomp counters on my team justify having a 20% chance to lose Mamoswine?
 

UltiMario

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Why the **** are you running Cloyster, Mamoswine, Hippowdon and Bronzong on the same team?

Because Mamoswine is a check

Edit: Apparently Smogon unbanned Brightpowder during this mess.

Good move, but it confuses me why Brightpowder is okay but Snow Cloak/Sand Veil isn't.
 

Gates

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Is the Snow Cloak/Sand Veil ban for all formats or just OU?
 

UltiMario

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Is the Snow Cloak/Sand Veil ban for all formats or just OU?
The initial suggestion was to ban them from OU (and as such, everything below it) but instead they stuck it under the Evasion Clause and got it banned in Ubers too.

It being banned in all formats means that some Pokemon in lower tiers lose moves from Gen III. Making Garchomp legal through this method actually deleted entire options from the game.
 

ss118

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I think Brightpowder was initially banned because it combined with Sand Veil/ Snow Cloak was "dumb" to them. Now with those two abilities gone, it seems less likely anyone will ever run such a bad item...

...Except me, because it is awesome on SubRoost pokemon, like Zapdos and Moltres.
 

Gates

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It being banned in all formats means that some Pokemon in lower tiers lose moves from Gen III. Making Garchomp legal through this method actually deleted entire options from the game.
Is there an updated list of illegal moves after the ban?
 

lordvaati

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Snow cloak being banned is ********.

:phone:
this. someone needs to convince Smogon to stop thinking all evasion=uncompetitiveness. at least it's not as bad as PO going nuts and banning all accuracy decreasing moves like sand attack, but this s*** is getting out of hand.
 

Ussi

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this. someone needs to convince Smogon to stop thinking all evasion=uncompetitiveness. at least it's not as bad as PO going nuts and banning all accuracy decreasing moves like sand attack, but this s*** is getting out of hand.
Accuracy decrease has counter play

evasion has dumb luck if you don't happen to carry a 100% hit move on all your pokemon, and not every pokemon can learn a 100% hit move and there are only 7 types of them.
 

UltiMario

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Is there an updated list of illegal moves after the ban?
PS might not have them implemented yet because they're pretty bad at having old Gen III stuff coded right, but here's most of them.

Sandslash:
Body Slam
Double Edge
DynamicPunch
Psych Up
Mimic
Seismic Toss

Cacturne:
Body Slam
Double Edge
DynamicPunch
Mega Punch
Mega Kick
Mimic
Fury Cutter
Seismic Toss
Endure

No other Pokemon lost moves in this ban.
 

UltiMario

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Technically this make Mimic Glitch Cacturne moves illegal under two different rules now, though =p

Also Double Edge was totally viable on Sandslash if you needed a neutral move that hit **** hard (like how Excadrill used Return in the past, or Iron Head now)
 

UltiMario

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Nope, since things were only lost from Gen III due to the distribution of moves, not Gen IV.
 

Gates

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So apparently Sand Veil is not banned in Little Cup.

GUESS HOW I FOUND THAT OUT.
 

UltiMario

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That's probably because Little Cup is its sort of its own thing and doesn't fall under the OU/UU/RU/NU Tier structure.
 

Gates

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So LC doesn't fall under the same rules as OU but Ubers does? Why?
 

UltiMario

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I went back and read up on everything.

Apparently clauses are now divided in tiers. Evasion clause bans Sand Veil and Snow Cloak in OU (and bans transfer down all tiers below, so everything below that) but apparently they're not added to the Evasion Clause in Ubers and LC because they're above OU or unrelated respectively.

So they added them to evasion clause... but..... then.... made clauses different between tiers?

Smogon you make no ****ing sense sometimes.
 

ss118

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I don't understand. OU should just have an "uber clause" and Snow Cloak/ Sand Veil falls under that. I don't even like the sound of that, honestly, but it is better than what they have now.
 
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