Match-up Discussion 18 - Wario

We need the following information:​

-STAGES-
"Best" starters for Oli:
"Worst" starters for Oli:
"Best" counterpicks for Oli:
"Worst" counterpicks for Oli:

Notable "move beats move" situations:

Opponent's primary tools:
How we can deal with opponent's primary tools:

Anything else:
(This section includes gimmicks, minor notes, and anything else that isn't covered)

Don't restrict conversation to just these points.
These are just guidelines to help discussion.
Discuss!​

The Old Wario Discussion Thread

Reserving first post. I'll post more in a bit.

Thanks Man Ill contribute to this Mu as much as possible.

just play text book olimar... with extra uair added

ban SV

Pretty much... Pivot grab landings, Uair a lot...
A lot of stuff from the old match-up thread is actually still relevant, but I'd like to add a little to it.

- Offstage, Bite or Nair are usually used to gimp us. Obviously he can't grab the edge while doing so, so you can time your tether to hit him. It can be ****ing HARD to get back on against him.

- We can't grab him off of his bike when he does a wheelie (most of the time), but a full wheelie will pass right over a standing Olimar. Ducking makes it more difficult for him to hit with it and a bit easier for us to PS to Usmash OoS.

Why ban SV, Fino? Does Wario CP there?

In my experience with the MU, it's around even, but maybe slight advantage to either character.

Olimar will get hit and possibly gimped when he gets offstage, so get ready to die if you're recovering Mid to low. Try to stay onstage, camp him only if you're hitting him with pikmin. If you're not, then he's just charging his waft.

I don't really know why you would ban SV against Wario, because they will take you to either Brinstar, RC, Frigate, or maybe Delfino if there aren't any other options.

Wario doesn't have range, he just has speed in the air. Use your range to your advantage, and make it hard for Wario to approach if he's trying to. Your grab is amazing, so use it often when Wario is on the ground. Also, don't forget about his waft, even if it's not glowing. A lot of Warios use it before it's fully charged for more knockback, and because the opponent might not be thinking about it as much as if Wario was glowing.

Most of our kills will be either Uair, offstage, waft, or lucky Fsmash if you don't shield grab for punish. We poke a lot with fair, and our bair has a lot of range, but a lot of lag. We won't use bite a lot on the ground against you, because Olimar has amazing spacing tools against that.

50:50?

IIRC Nair beats most of his aerial moves

Because there isn't enough room to run. SV takes away 1 of olimar's 3 viable options, and it's one of the most important one vs Wario (pivot grab).

Wario's air-speed is faster than olimar's run speed, so it's important to focus on horizontally spacing wario at all times - another reason to ban SV.

We control when we're let out of bite by how hard we mash, so there are situations in which we can intentionally not mash and force the SD to our advantage.

Doesn't Brinstar give them a bit more freedom to run and less room for pivot grabbing, though?

EDIT: Notes from the old match-up thread:
Draconoa:
Stay Mobile

Nair and pivot grab is good

Wario's dair is beaten by our utilt.

RichBrown:
Don't try to shieldgrab his nair. He can sidestep or do anything, so just don't try.

A good Wario will try to bait the pivot grab, by jumping towards you, making it seem like he's gonna land in front of you, then jumping at the last possible moment and then dairing you.

If you can get a wheel off the bike, take one, then camp sideB a little, and think of the wheel as an assist purple, if that makes any sense.

Just stay very, very mobile. You're gonna be using every single one of your moves for this matchup.

dabuz:
[Waft is] 115 seconds to full charge, but they will want to use it before then. Expect after 55 seconds.

Someone needs to figure out the timing but our yellow upsmash beats his dair, and there is a certain angle where all our upsmashes beat his dair (no joke)

don't throw out moves unless you think they can hit, wario is a bait master

dair can beat our upair

on landing most warios will mix up fsmash or grab with occasional spot dodges before hand

if wario trys to escape early by button mashing our grab, we actually have an air grab release upsmash, upair, and nair

wario is very limited in kill moves

if wario gets a charged fart that can kill you stop being aggressive and pressuring him, just camp and try to lure out that fart with everything you can until he uses it, because fart will be wario's most common kill move

yellows + purples are our best pikmin in this matchup

jab is surprisingly good against him if hes aerial

up-b (not shorthopped) covers a lot of angles wario like to stay at

Fino:
Note when your shield takes an attack [from the bike], the hitbox no longer affects you

Denti:
you can grab them off their bike unless they pull up to do a wheelie then you can F smash it. maybe F smash against bike is pikmin dependable idk

Warios can shield grab like mad so when falling back onto the stage try not to attack him predictably

SkyPirateCoud (CloverLeaf):
I like jumping toward Wario and whistle bouncing away to bait out a Bite or fart.

PhantomX:
Bike won't kill your upsmash Pikmin.

If he's tilting the bike go for the shield > upsmash and it will always beat it.

Wario's sh goes perfectly over your grab/pivot grab to put him into punishment position

His nair will hit you if you whistle the first hit

Don't go to RC if the Wario knows how to play on that stage.

Pado:
Don't plank too much with LedgeDrop Uairs. I've managed to Dair some Uairs while Olimar was going up and finished stage spiking him. Not saying it's a bad idea but don't make the Wario player get used to it.



If any of this is no longer useful, please let me know.

Good **** this weekend fino to bad I couldn't watch the match between you and bpow to learn some tricks.

For Olimar, up tilt is like a get out of jail free card. It out prioritizes all of our aerials.