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Legalize Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1

SaveMeJebus

SaveMeJebus

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Mushroomy Kingdom should be legalized. Since the stage moves, it is impossible to walk off camp. The parts of the stage that have walls and walk offs always have safe places to go to in order to avoid getting chain grabbed.

DDD can standing infinite these characters on Mushroomy Kingdom and Rainbow Cruise

Snake
Wario
R.O.B.
Wolf
DDD
Yoshi
Captain Falcon
Ike
Link
Charizard
Ivysaur

DDD can standing infinite these characters on any stage.

Mario
DK
Bowser
Luigi
Samus
 
ぱみゅ

ぱみゅ

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Y'know? You could have said that in a more elaborated or sophisticated way and it probably wouldn't have sounded that dumb...
 
John12346

John12346

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Yeah, 1-2 does not, EVER, have a chance to be legal in tournament; there are just too many inherent flaws in its design.

I'm kinda on the fence about 1-1. I'm not really sure about it either way...



Also, relevant information:

■ You can ensure you go to World 1-1 on the Mushroomy Kingdom stage by holding down a button as you select the stage. For the GameCube and Classic Controllers, hold down the X or Y Buttons. For the Wii Remote control scheme, use the A Button, and for the Nunchuk and Wii Remote combo, hold down the C Button.

■ If you feel like you’d like to play Mushroomy Kingdom’s World 1-2, you can choose that one as well. When playing with the GameCube or Classic Controller, hold down the L Button or R Button while selecting the stage to go to World 1-2. When using a Wii Remote, hold the B Button, and when using the Nunchuk and Wii Remote combo, hold down the Z Button.

Source
 
Life

Life

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I thought most people knew that johnumbers

The main problem with 1-1 is that whoever's on the right side of the stage can chill out there because the stage will force the other player to approach, and gradually squeeze them against the blast zone, making it difficult to get out. This is present on RC, but isn't nearly as overpowering because there's enough space to get around your opponent, and the stage is much slower. 1-1 moves much more quickly, and is much smaller.

The short version: If you support banning RC, you have no ground (/pun) to stand on because this stage is RC turned up to 11. If you're not of that opinion, it might deserve a better look.

IMO, characters that would CP the stage include MK (but where wouldn't he CP?), D3, Falco, possibly Diddy, chaingrab characters in general (but not ICs), Sonic and Wario (they're fast enough to avoid getting pressed against the side), maybe a couple others. Characters that would ban this stage include characters that prefer Brinstar/RC for MK (GnW, Ness?, Jiggz), and characters that have trouble not getting grabbed (?).

I'd throw it in the same category as Mario Bros. Probably fun for friendlies, or maybe a side event, but not something I'd have in-tournament.
 
Akaku94

Akaku94

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agreed... over-centralizes toward good defensive chars... simply spawning on the left with your opponent spawning on the right puts you at an instant disadvantage...
 
SaveMeJebus

SaveMeJebus

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InferiorityComplex said:
I thought most people knew that johnumbers

The main problem with 1-1 is that whoever's on the right side of the stage can chill out there because the stage will force the other player to approach, and gradually squeeze them against the blast zone, making it difficult to get out. This is present on RC, but isn't nearly as overpowering because there's enough space to get around your opponent, and the stage is much slower. 1-1 moves much more quickly, and is much smaller.

The short version: If you support banning RC, you have no ground (/pun) to stand on because this stage is RC turned up to 11. If you're not of that opinion, it might deserve a better look.

IMO, characters that would CP the stage include MK (but where wouldn't he CP?), D3, Falco, possibly Diddy, chaingrab characters in general (but not ICs), Sonic and Wario (they're fast enough to avoid getting pressed against the side), maybe a couple others. Characters that would ban this stage include characters that prefer Brinstar/RC for MK (GnW, Ness?, Jiggz), and characters that have trouble not getting grabbed (?).

I'd throw it in the same category as Mario Bros. Probably fun for friendlies, or maybe a side event, but not something I'd have in-tournament.
Click to expand...
I don't see how this is true. You can avoid this by waiting for the blocks and jumping on them to get to the other side. This stage also moves at the same speed as RC.
 
Grim Tuesday

Grim Tuesday

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I've tested this stage.

Dedede is as strong here as he is on other walk-off stages, he still gets an instant KO off of a grab at any point in the level against chain-grabbable characters and can force the opponent to approach him due to the stage moving.
 
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I think it may offer some interesting approach/camp/midgame scenarios...
I might be wrong due to my lack of testing...
 
#HBC | Red Ryu

#HBC | Red Ryu

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I saw characters killing at 0% with Uthrow on the top of 1-2, good signs of let's not make that one legal.

1-1, there is constant walkoff. A couple of temp walls but considering this is a slow moving level you could be there for a while. There are some odd areas as well.

Count me as a no to this stage.
 
SaveMeJebus

SaveMeJebus

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Snake
Wario
DK
R.O.B.
Wolf
DDD
Yoshi
Captain Falcon
Mario
Ike
Bowser
Samus
Link
Luigi
Charizard
Ivysaur

DDD can do a standing infinite if he grabs these characters while facing the left part of the stage (this can also be done on the moving parts of RC) but he has a much harder time chain grabbing them when he grabs them and is facing the right side of the stage. Any character that is not on this list but is still on his chain grab list is easier to chain grab if he is grabbed while DDD is facing the left part of the stage but is impossible to chain grab if DDD grabs him while facing the right part of the stage unless he grabs them near a wall.
 
Akaku94

Akaku94

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This is Jebus' way of saying RC should be banned... by trying to show that the obviously broken 1-1 is similar to RC, he's saying that RC is obviously broken, as well. However, the similarities end at movement, so that won't work...
 
SaveMeJebus

SaveMeJebus

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I did some testing on Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1 and this is what i found out. I was using a three minute timer

1.The stage takes about two minutes to go from start to finish before it repeats itself.

2. From 3:00-2:28 a player can avoid getting chain grabbed by jumping on the blocks or standing on top of the pipes. From 2:27-2:02 the player is safe from walk offs thanks to the pit. From 2:02-1:46 players can once again avoid getting chain grabbed by jumping on the blocks. From 1:45-1:00 players are once again safe from walk offs.
 
SaveMeJebus

SaveMeJebus

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Grim Tuesday said:
What if that player doesn't have the lead? You just expect them to run away the entire match from a camping Dedede and lose via time-out?
Click to expand...
Snake
Wario
DK
R.O.B.
Wolf
DDD
Yoshi
Captain Falcon
Mario
Ike
Bowser
Samus
Link
Luigi
Charizard
Ivysaur

Only the characters on this list have to worry about getting chain grabbed from either side of the stage. All the other chain grabbable characters don't have to worry about walk offs as long as they don't get grabbed while DDD is facing the left side of the stage when they are in one of those walk off spots. Besides, the game gives you at least four whole minutes out of the eight to safely approach DDD with out the risk of a walk off kill.
 
Grim Tuesday

Grim Tuesday

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A person who mains one of those characters would always have to ban Mushroomy Kingdom just in case the opponent pulls out a pocket Dedede.

The 4 minute thing is potentially legit, but I doubt anyone would agree to legalizing a stage that is 50% camping.
 
SaveMeJebus

SaveMeJebus

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Grim Tuesday said:
A person who mains one of those characters would always have to ban Mushroomy Kingdom just in case the opponent pulls out a pocket Dedede.

The 4 minute thing is potentially legit, but I doubt anyone would agree to legalizing a stage that is 50% camping.
Click to expand...
1. I don't see how that is any different from players having to ban either Brinstar or RC in case their opponent has a pocket MK or FD for fear of pocket ICs.

2. What about RC. MK can plank on the ledge of the Ship without ever going over the ledge grab limit. I don't know how much time that waists but I know you aren't fighting MK on that stage with a full eight minutes.
 
SaveMeJebus

SaveMeJebus

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Grim Tuesday said:
It isn't different to MK, that's why I want him banned.

But pocket ICs are a different situation, they take effort to use, Dedede doesn't (on Mushroomy).

Meta Knight's fault.
Click to expand...
All these problems with MK can be solved by adding an extra stage ban
 
#HBC | Red Ryu

#HBC | Red Ryu

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SaveMeJebus said:
1. I don't see how that is any different from players having to ban either Brinstar or RC in case their opponent has a pocket MK or FD for fear of pocket ICs.

2. What about RC. MK can plank on the ledge of the Ship without ever going over the ledge grab limit. I don't know how much time that waists but I know you aren't fighting MK on that stage with a full eight minutes.
Click to expand...
The fact we have problems means adding more is not the solution.
 
#HBC | Red Ryu

#HBC | Red Ryu

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SaveMeJebus said:
If there is no problem with RC, then there is no problem with Mushroomy Kingdom.
Click to expand...
Now ignoring the strawman, your assuming both are equal. Show me videos showcasing this, show me players who agree with said statements that have extensive knowledge and show great understanding of this.

Let's see an argument.
 
SaveMeJebus

SaveMeJebus

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Red Ryu said:
Now ignoring the strawman, your assuming both are equal. Show me videos showcasing this, show me players who agree with said statements that have extensive knowledge and show great understanding of this.

Let's see an argument.
Click to expand...
Why don't you show me proof that this stage should be banned. A stage should be legal until proven broken as some people here say.
 
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