The D3 Information Dump Thread - Share your tips here!

Ha, you want tactics for underused moves???
This is as much info on one of our most underused moves as you need...

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=310458

When I'm done with my Jet Hammer and Jab Application Research it ought to help as well.

So my 3 random things:

1. Up-B Cancel on Brinstar

If you position yourself correctly under the stage (the first land mass immediately to the right of the attackable balls) and you up-b, you will immediately land on the stage on the first frame that D3's feet reach the floor of the stage. I've killed someone in tourney with this.

2. Standing Pivot Grab Wario's Bite

If Wario mis-spaces a bite and you're just in reach for a grab (potential kill set-up with Wario), but you know that bite > grab, then standing pivot grab him. Your hitbox will extend past your hurtbox, so he wont be able to bite you, and he will be transported to your hands. I use this all the time when Wario's mis-space a bite; it helped me beat Reflex in the tourney last weekend.

3. Platform-Canceling

The technique isn't new, but I dont see many D3's using it.

Platform-cancel -> grab
Great on Smashville (leads to more grabs on chaingrabbables) maybe when characters are coming down, especially ones whose horizontal accelerations aren't great (Snake). Also good on Rainbow Cruise platforms near the ceiling, since those can lead to infinites. On Lylat Cruise, if you're opponent is directly above you on a platform shielding, waiting for your Up-tilt, then a platform-cancel -> grab can get you 16%. It's a great mix-up!

Platform-cancel > u-tilt
Good anywhere. I like it on Lylat Cruise and Rainbow Cruise's Ship's platforms.

Platform-cancel > run > drop -> bar/fair
You can also use it to edgeguard your opponent quicker in the case that the Smashville platform is on its way to the side of the stage they're trying to recover from and you're far away.

That's all I can think of for right now.

I didn't know about #1 seeing as how I don't D3 on Brinstar.

I also didn't think to use Standing Pivot against Wario.

Platform Canceling, I abuse all day every day if I can lol. Thats why I love Lylat vs MK.

Good tips 4GOD.

Shield Break Canceling

This is a very rarely used thing which when you can you should use.

Basically if your shield is really really badly *****, and you're on a stage with angled platforms, like Brinstar or Lylat, angle yourself right beneath the lower edge of that platform and shield break. You'll bounce off the platforms and have a shield at about 60% of full strength.

I have loads more little things but I don't have the time to list them atm.

Supreme Dirt said:

Shield Break Canceling

This is a very rarely used thing which when you can you should use.

Basically if your shield is really really badly *****, and you're on a stage with angled platforms, like Brinstar or Lylat, angle yourself right beneath the lower edge of that platform and shield break. You'll bounce off the platforms and have a shield at about 60% of full strength.

I have loads more little things but I don't have the time to list them atm.

Click to expand...

Thx 4 sharing! Ive actually nvr heard of that. Did some research and apparently the boards have a thread on it. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=8749427#post8749427

Let's see...Let's see if I can't come up with anything...

-Snake's Utilt:
If both Dedede and Snake are on the ground (tested on SV) Utilt doesn't kill until he's past 144%, the best DI for it is holding towards him and then you of course momentum cancel

-Yoshi Ledge camping
If Yoshi starts to camp on the edge with eggs, and you are in the middle/towards that edge, space yourself so that the head of D3's hammer from ftilt will be right above the edge. This will break the egg and stop you from taking damage.

-Edge tricksies
When someone's recovering and you don't feel brave enough to go off stage (sissy), there are a few things that are fairly safe. If someone is coming up from beneath the stage/drop off the edge, Dsmash can stage spike. Space so the hammer head will spin over it while you're facing the edge. Another option is, with your back facing the edge, to do a jump once they get on the edge. If they jump up, position yourself and bair them; if they get up regularly, fast fall bair or turn around and Inhale; if they getup attack, the options are the same, but Inhale with armor is safer. If they get up roll, Inhale, turn around and spit them off stage again.

-Platforms and grabs
If, for example, you are on Battlefield's right platform and grab someone on it while facing left (towards the center of the stage) running off and regrabbing, while not guaranteed, works decently. This is best done if you drop through the platform/run off and shield in front to do a shield grab

-Double Down Tilt
A very silly technique in which you do two Dtilts in a row while someone's recovering onto the stage/grabs the ledge/shields one Dtilt. Hardly practical, but manages to work every now and then

-Platform Pressure
If someone is on a platform above you and not in killing percent (aka, utilt won't kill them) Something I like to do is, utilizing several jumps, assault with bairs until either A) they get hit, or B) I end with turnaround Inhale

-Bair and tripping
In conjunction with the above (and just in general) Bair can trip at low percentages, and should always be followed up with something, i.e. another bair or a grab

-Waddle Doos
If a waddle doo is nearby and charging its laser and some poor soul is in your grip, simply hold them in your hands while they get whipped, they'll be released right in front of you, ready to be grabbed once again

Just stuff I thought of from my game I'd like to share.

Some tidbit i posted here some time ago. Its kinda like how snake can make you drop his grenades, aka, shield stripping. Well, wario can make us drop our waddles. Its not really match changing and its tricky to do. But if you have 2 waddles on the field, and you press A to pick one up and throw it and wario eats the other one during your throwing animation, then you will drop the waddle and continue the throw animation without throwing anything. The waddle just drops to the ground. Like I said, nothing game changing, but an interesting fact. (And I just wanted to contribute...)

When you get a pill with side-b the item matters on what you have on item switch (probably already known).

NAir outprioritizes a ridiculous amount of projectiles when fastfallen. Not the most useful thing, but for snakes USmash and Pit's UArrow it's pretty good.

So its attributes/effectiveness changes when used during a fastfall? How does that work?

I really like to inhale to reverse inhale at the ground like at 0:20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC9R_q3C9bY&feature=related

I also like to platform cancel to grab to perform the CG in the platform ( I think i've maybe popularized this tip )

I'd just like to say off topic that the whole "PARTEZ" sounds really cool and is fun to say...

...That is all.

Chris said:

So its attributes/effectiveness changes when used during a fastfall? How does that work?

Click to expand...

No, it's just sometimes you get hit before you cancel it with NAir if you're regular falling, it's weird sometimes.

I personally like to Platform Cancel to Ftilt/Dtilt to catch someone trying to chase after me from the sides of a platform. Also, for people who can be CG'ed if we dash grab them on ice you can get exactly 3 Dthrows before having to dash again. For people who can't be CG'ed then you get a free Dsmash/Upsmash and I believe a free jab into jab lock.

Also what I really like to do is set people up into the laying on the ground state to get a free tech chase.

3 ways I use:

1. Dthrow one of the unchainable 12
2. Use a utilt/ Dair at low percentages to put them on a platform
3. Use a Ftilt at mid percentages to put them on a platform
4. Dthrow one of the unchainable 12 in a wall. If they tech, then just grab them and reset the situation. If they don't you get a free jab lock into the wall.

I believe jab locking is a very underused threat.

Plus i just found out today, If you drop from a ledge and Fair, you can jump again and Nair if they a still close on the ledge. A pretty good shock now that I think about it.

When you Dash then Pivot and use RAR Fair it throws off a lot of people. I notice this REALLY helps in the Wario MU or anyone who hangs in the air a lot for example because when you have your back turned in the air people expect Bair. Often times they will airdodge and get hit because Fairs backward hitbox comes out much later than Bair and still has great range that if often underestimatedPlus it hits harder. I was abusing the hell out of this at SIIS6.

Also if people attempt to avoid it but airdodging vertically you can still frame trap and catch them with Bair. Its a funny mixup at times.

Matchup specific stuff I learned just like today:

- Assuming it being spaced well, Dtilt is completely safe on Olimar's shield unless powershielded.
- You get shield grab Ike out of his UpB, on the apex of the move.

Dedede has two unique landings after cancelling his Super Jump. The first, which is
shorter and more graceful than the latter, is actually even faster than landing without
cancelling( the landing with the stars ). The second landing, is a clumsy and slow one, and
results from cancelling the fall of the Super Jump immediatley before hitting the ground. When
the Super Jump fall is cancelled, an animation results where the king will roll midair and enter
a different falling position. The slow, time consuming landing results when D3 lands in
the middle of that midair roll animation.

The lesson: cancel the fall only when a safe distance from the floor, unless you want to remain
vulnerable much longer.

Sometimes a pummel release at the ledge after a CG can be better than what you (and your opponent) are used to. Against characters with bad second jumps or bad recoveries you can grab the ledge and bair their jump/upB to get an early kill, or if you think they'll get past you while you do that, just stand on the stage and do a dtilt or dsmash, this will put your opponent in a terrible position.

7Claus said:

Sometimes a pummel release at the ledge after a CG can be better than what you (and your opponent) are used to. Against characters with bad second jumps or bad recoveries you can grab the ledge and bair their jump/upB to get an early kill, or if you think they'll get past you while you do that, just stand on the stage and do a dtilt or dsmash, this will put your opponent in a terrible position.

Click to expand...

This, but if you're fast enough and they're not expecting it, fall off the edge with a bair and try for the stage spike. Ive done it once.

^ I use the above tactics against Snake a lot as well. A fastfalled Fair also really catches people off guard. You can condition the Snake for example to drop back and jump for the ledge if you catch them enough Forward Tilts (takes away their jump and opens them up to the ****) and once you do you can swoop down on them with a Fair. I have killed a lot of them like this.

Also you would be surprised how many times, you can get away with landing on the stage with Super Dedede Jump (the un-canceled version) People always wait for me to cancel it lmao.

Its safer not to cancel it. Even though the cancel landing animation is
shorter, the stars provide good ground defense. And TC is right, most people
would expect us to cancel.

I think one of the first things a D3 should learn is how to properly use Super Jump.

Btw my Jet Hammer research is done. I will be posting it up in its thread tommorow.
If anyone has any final things they want to add, they should hurry. It hasn't been as
promising as my u-throw data, but I still found some interesting things and dispelled
a few myths.

How much you should cancel it just depends on the player and what character they are playing. I am just saying that you should mix it up I suppose. Mastering the recovery is very tricky and it is a core Dedede skill that needs developed. Experience will help you in that though.

But yeah the landing animation is cool at times because the stars can poke shields lol I also love it when people mistime when to hit me when I'm about to land and get spiked and then hit again. Its such a ridiculous punishment lmao.

If you grab Falco without jumps at the edge of a normal stage, you can air release him to death. If you go to the ledge as soon as you can and he tries to sideB back to stage, you'll still be invincible, and if he tries to upB you have plenty of time to drop and jump back to the ledge to regain your invincibility.

This also works with other characters with short recoveries like Sheik, Link, and the ones with tether recoveries.

Here's my little two cents, you can fair onto a stage by fairing just next to, diagonal, and facing the ledge and you'll appear on the very edge of the stage finishing the fair animation, it's hard to hit anything with the little frames you're given, but it's a good mind game for those who love to follow you off the edge. Stages I'm sure this works on are Battlefield, Final Destination, and Lylat (but the motion of the stage could very well throw this off so you'll just grab the ledge or do the full fair animation). I'm sure it'll work on many others, those are the only ones I can recall off the top of my head that I'm positive it works on.

When you inhale someone off stage and they have any chance of mashing out, mash jump and nair. If they break out youll buffer jump and nair to hit them away from you(they pop out right above you). It's the best thing you can do in that situation!

Oh yeah. I forgot about one of my favorite things to do. If you Dthrow someone as the stage is flipping at Frigate, you'll put them under the stage and if they have a bad recovery they'll die.

^ Huh, I did that once and figured it was just good luck. Didn't know that.
I love this thread, I've already learned a few new things.

Something I find funny:

This relates to what Zeke posted but I noticed that when you release Metaknight from Inhale the distance he seems to travel from you is less than others. Like I tried screwing around by walking forward while the opponent is inside me and then doing a Backward moving Forward Air since it covers all around D3 and it seems to hit Metaknight and certain other characters for whatever reason lol I mean they can react still but it usually catches people off guard and it might be useful for a surprise kill.

^ Can we get a list on those characters this works decently on?

I'll be working on this today

I've got more testing to do....this is really weird how some characters release sooo much further than others. I thought it was going to be more straightforward than this. I wonder if its in relation to how people get Aerial Grab Released...There's some sort of other factor here. I just don't know what it is yet.

Okay, so it looks like each character releases at a different distance for whatever reason. I thought it might be based off of jump distance at first since Wolf was put really close to me after I Inhaled Released him. I was wrong. I thought about Grab Release animations, yet that proved to be inaccurate as well. I guess its just a completely separate animation from other "releases"

So far, I notice that and travel significantly less than a lot of other characters (still testing others) putting them at range for a solid aerial. Now keep in mind that people can attack, jump, airdodge, whatever out of being released immediately. The reason I am willing to look into this is because no one expects us to follow up from an Inhale Release period. Most people will write it off an "as accident". And yeah they can still jump but against people who only have one double jump, who would want to waste it and risk getting smacked off the stage when they're in danger of being hit out of it.

I'm starting to believe that if I just bluff a Dedede-cide and start walking towards the ledge, it will condition them to mash out. After I figure out what happens after they mash out (varies per player) I can then decide how to follow up. At high percents, if you walk towards the ledge you'll kill them earlier as well if you land Bair or Forward Air. I feel like this could be a funny alternative to Happy Ending since that will work like ONLY once. I mean none of this is guaranteed but I think with some creativity, you can net some earlier kills like this. I still need to see which other characters are in range though. Other people can test this as well.


[collapse=Characters that have weak Inhale Release animations]
(his is pretty low and he's even in range for a Bair)
(his is about as bad as Wolf's)

*still testing*

[/collapse]

I am eventually just going to test this on everyone and categorize their release distances and from there see what we can find.